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Guide Stat-Based Tiering Guide
#11
(04-07-2019, 03:27 PM)Jabuloso Wrote: I myself don't play the main series competitively since SM came out I guess - except for Little Cup, which I still played for some time -, although I still watch some content related to it. But as you see, Uranium for me is a completely different story. It's thrilling to explore the possibilities Uranium gives you.

I wonder if that's because Uranium is a completely different kind of metagame than the main series?  A lot of the good pokemon in Smogon OU tend to stay there, so it can start feeling a bit samey after a generation or three of playing with the same mons with only a few changes to the core teams.

Heck, the pre-bank metas tend to be pretty interesting in and of themselves, tbh.  And I think that's particularly evident in the VGC nowadays, too.  Once the floodgates are reopened and everyone can use their tried and true favorites (or just the most powerful stuff) again, things start looking very similar in the top ranks...

End of the day though, it is just my opinion (to a degree), I guess.
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#12
(04-07-2019, 03:38 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: I wonder if that's because Uranium is a completely different kind of metagame than the main series?  A lot of the good pokemon in Smogon OU tend to stay there, so it can start feeling a bit samey after a generation or three of playing with the same mons with only a few changes to the core teams.

I'm afraid it's exactly because of that. I was for the most part an UU main, but still played OU. At some point I just grew tired of OU and dropped it completely. Eventually even UU wasn't that much fun and interesting, and I moved to LC. Most of my love for LC comes from the fact that it's a whole new way of playing competitive, and that's what kept me playing it even after I had pretty much stopped playing the main series competitively. Now I'm but a Uranium player waiting for the [real] Comp scene to arrive, building teams and enjoying the incompleteness (is that a word? hahah) of the simulator.

This is also part of the reason I always liked draft-league formats. It's a format that really tests not only your battling skills, but also your teambuilding skills, and because of how it is I guess it's harder for it to become "stale" like tier-based metagames can be.
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#13
(04-07-2019, 03:27 PM)Jabuloso Wrote:
(04-07-2019, 12:38 AM)Andyv2 Wrote:
(04-06-2019, 07:37 AM)Jabuloso Wrote: Seeing the Comp section showing signs of life always makes me happy. And you analysis also gave me new motivation to take forward a thing I was working on, so thank you. I really like your approach, as I believe that, although it can't be considered the most accurate way of analysing a metagame in Pokémon, it can give you a pretty good overview of the Dex and can be a great starting point for building a metagame. On the other hand, as everyone here said, including you, the guide has it's own natural limitations, as sometimes, in Competitive Pokémon, base stats alone can't determinate whether a Pokémon is good/viable or not. You have to factor stuff like typings and meta trends; is like Dragonstrike said, viability is pretty much always related to how the Pokémon fares in the actual metagame. Although I can't talk about the time when people used to hold in-game tournaments, I was there when the activity on the sim was somewhat high, and, for example, S51-A was probably the most used mon there; it was what Landorus-T is in the core-series.

That being said, I actually liked a lot your idea about Urayne-Alpha. I guess it would be a nice way of balancing teambuilding around it if you consider it as a "Mega" taking up a slot. Don't know if everyone would agree to that, but I would. Overall, awesome iniciative you had there, and I hope we have more from you, especially WHEN the meta develops.

Thanks Jabuloso. It will certainly be exciting to do meta-relevant damage calculations and look at/analyze actual usage stats when the time comes. I really do think the best way to start the new metagame is to give the benefit of the doubt where possible as to ban suspects, without completely discarding facts that we know for sure, such as how high/low a Pokémon’s base stats are compared with the rest of the Dex. After all, being too ban-happy also restricts opportunities for team diversity in the same way that allowing broken ‘mons in play does. I will fully admit though that I have very little/no experience in hands-on comp, but I am willing to participate and learn, even if it takes getting 6-0ed several times to do so. The only reason I don’t practice in the main scene is because there are quite a few new Pokemon since I last stopped playing the main series. Anyways, I am very glad I inspired you to take steps forward on whatever project you had on the back burner. I look forward to hearing more from everyone here as well.

 I agree with you about bans. We should first see if a Pokémon we consider to be broken and unhealthy to the metagame is indeed broken and unhealthy to the metagame. Of course, the probability of something like Urayne-B breaking the meta is high, but at least let the community experiment with it. Also, in some cases, I think making moves illegal in determined mons a good idea. For example, I don't think Inflagetah is that busted, as long as it doesn't have Belly Drum. I believe it's a good way to keep team diversity while also protecting the meta from the broken stuff. 

And you should give Competitive Uranium a try! I myself don't play the main series competitively since SM came out I guess - except for Little Cup, which I still played for some time -, although I still watch some content related to it. But as you see, Uranium for me is a completely different story. It's thrilling to explore the possibilities Uranium gives you. You should definitely give it a try. Actually, if you have any interest and isn't informed about it, the simulator just came back online, and people over there is playing a lot of randbats hahah. The link for the sim is https://sim.pokemonuranium.org/. Also, if you aren't there yet, you can join the Breeder's Guild discord; there is a Competitive discussion channel there where you can, well, discuss about competitive stuff and arrange some matches to be played on the sim. Hope we see more of you!!

True, we definitely should experiment with it. Yeah, I did read up on Belly Drum Inflagetah. There doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to deal with it once it gets maxed in attack. Even the bulkiest Tubareel can get OHKOed by ExtremeSpeed boosted by Life Orb with a lucky damage roll (it doesn't even need a crit). This can happen after just 1 turn of setup, making Inflagetah fit the Portrait of an Uber, but only if it has that move. Getting the conditions needed to max attack aren't even that hard either, contrary to what some comments in those posts might say. The player with Inflagetah, just has to switch it in at the right time against something that is incapable of 2HKOing it, use Belly Drum on the first turn, and then enjoy the sweep. Smogon does have a policy of "no complex bans", but I agree that it doesn't really apply in this case, since the Pokedex is already small enough as it is compared to the main series.

I tried the simulator link, but it is asking me for my Battle Link ID before proceeding, and I still get the error message in-game when I attempt to retrieve my Battle Link ID from the online lobby. I hope I can take part soon enough.
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#14
(04-07-2019, 03:25 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Reading through this again, there is one thing I'd actually like to point out:

There's only one Drizzle user in Uranium, and it's M-Electruxo (which can't extend the Rain's duration with a Damp Rock).  That could potentially affect how common Rain teams are, and thus how often Syrentide can abuse Swift Swim.  You won't often see pokemon using Rain Dance unless you're facing a dedicated Rain team.  Probably.  

No guarantees, of course, as Uranium's future meta trends could be different than any expectations developed from playing competitive in the main series, but I still think this is an important thing to keep in mind.

Hi Dragonstrike. I somehow missed this post before, but I would still like to address this. You make a very good point about the scarcity of Drizzle users in the game, making the use of rain a viable meta game element questionable indeed. Overall, Syrentide could be justified either way. It’s stats are okay enough for the tier I placed it in, but by no means fantastic. Putting it into the tier below also let’s it fit, but it is honestly 5 stat points away from what I considered “overpowered” for the tier. I could also argue that it’s superb defensive typing merits it a spot where it is currently placed. On the other hand, it does seem to lack access to reliable recovery moves. I suppose it is best to extend the benefit of the doubt, even though it is not a ban that’s is in question; Syrentide deserves a spot in Tier B so it doesn’t get undeservedly restricted in the team building process. Now I have to figure out how’s to edit the original post...

Yeah, there is never any guarantees when it comes to this stuff. The only thing that can truly solve this dispute is the development of a comp scene where there are plenty of opportunities to test things out. Speaking of which, do you know how to access the simulator? It tells me that I need to retrieve my Battle Link ID in the game, but when I access the online lobby, it tells me something along the lines of “‘authority’ has no default value” after the part that says “Your Battle Link ID:”. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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#15
(04-10-2019, 02:17 PM)Andyv2 Wrote: Speaking of which, do you know how to access the simulator? It tells me that I need to retrieve my Battle Link ID in the game, but when I access the online lobby, it tells me something along the lines of “‘authority’ has no default value” after the part that says “Your Battle Link ID:”. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I've not actually come across that error myself, but I'll ask around.  Mind providing some screenshots?
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#16
(04-10-2019, 02:25 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote:
(04-10-2019, 02:17 PM)Andyv2 Wrote: Speaking of which, do you know how to access the simulator? It tells me that I need to retrieve my Battle Link ID in the game, but when I access the online lobby, it tells me something along the lines of “‘authority’ has no default value” after the part that says “Your Battle Link ID:”. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I've not actually come across that error myself, but I'll ask around.  Mind providing some screenshots?

This picture I have uploaded is what I have been coming across when I access my Battle Link ID from the Lobby. It then says to "Never share this ID!", followed by asking if I want to access the simulator.

One other question I have is if the simulator allows you to make your own team or if you have to upload something from in-game. I started a new save file and have been playing in Nuzlocke mode. I have had 6 deaths so far (Chyinmunk, Barewl, Jerbolta, Minyan, Sylveon, and Garlikid). My current team is Inflagetah, Frosthra, Electruxo-M, S51-A, Cocancer, and Xenomite. I already beat CURIE at Nuclear Plant Zeta and will be on my way to Victory Road after I grind everyone to about Level 72. My biggest concern is the actual Championship, where you aren't allowed to use any healing items. Wish me luck.


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#17
(04-10-2019, 03:09 PM)Andyv2 Wrote: This picture I have uploaded is what I have been coming across when I access my Battle Link ID from the Lobby. It then says to "Never share this ID!", followed by asking if I want to access the simulator.

One other question I have is if the simulator allows you to make your own team or if you have to upload something from in-game. I started a new save file and have been playing in Nuzlocke mode. I have had 6 deaths so far (Chyinmunk, Barewl, Jerbolta, Minyan, Sylveon, and Garlikid). My current team is Inflagetah, Frosthra, Electruxo-M, S51-A, Cocancer, and Xenomite. I already beat CURIE at Nuclear Plant Zeta and will be on my way to Victory Road after I grind everyone to about Level 72. My biggest concern is the actual Championship, where you aren't allowed to use any healing items. Wish me luck.

Just asked someone who's been doing some work on the sim, and the error is apparently something on the game's side.  It's preventing new people from getting battle IDs, and the sim devs are aware of the issue.  Hopefully they'll be able to fix it soon so that newcomers can join the sim as well.

The sim allows you to both make simulated teams (ala Smogon) and also upload teams from the game.  When you select the Battle Link option in-game, it uploads your current in-game team's data to the sim and registers it in a dedicated team slot specifically for the in-game team. Easy, but a little tedious at times since you have to boot up the game whenever you want to upload anything you've created in-game. Could be worse, though, right?

The sim also doesn't currently have all of Uranium's features working yet. The majority of what's working at the moment is just stuff that can be found in the canon games. Anything that was made specifically for Uranium (Nuclear type and Atomizate, Thunderstorm, Acceleration, etc.) hasn't been properly implemented yet. The sim devs are working on it, though.

Good luck with the Nuzlocke Championship!  I'm sure you'll rip through it with that team so long as you properly prepare for it!
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#18
(04-09-2019, 12:00 PM)Andyv2 Wrote: I tried the simulator link, but it is asking me for my Battle Link ID before proceeding, and I still get the error message in-game when I attempt to retrieve my Battle Link ID from the online lobby. I hope I can take part soon enough.

Sorry for not responding before... But as Dragonstrike said, currently there's some kind of in-game problem that's preventing people from getting their Battle Link ID. The people in the sim right now it's me and a few people who had their Battle IDs saved somewhere. I hope they fix that error soon so newcomers can join us there!

Andyv2 Wrote:One other question I have is if the simulator allows you to make your own team or if you have to upload something from in-game.

Also as Dragonstrike said, the sim has both functionalities: you can either upload your in-game teams (only to use a shiny Pokémon there actually) or make new teams from scratch like you can do on Pokémon Showdown. About the stuff that's not working properly, there's a [link=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o4QB...6833029033]bug list[/link] where you can see what's been fixed/added, although I'm not well informed about how accurate it is since I've been away for a while and the sim had to be reset. I can ask around if you want but, unfortunately, I guess it doesn't matter if you can't have your Battle ID.
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#19
(04-11-2019, 08:46 PM)Jabuloso Wrote:
(04-09-2019, 12:00 PM)Andyv2 Wrote: I tried the simulator link, but it is asking me for my Battle Link ID before proceeding, and I still get the error message in-game when I attempt to retrieve my Battle Link ID from the online lobby. I hope I can take part soon enough.

Sorry for not responding before... But as Dragonstrike said, currently there's some kind of in-game problem that's preventing people from getting their Battle Link ID. The people in the sim right now it's me and a few people who had their Battle IDs saved somewhere. I hope they fix that error soon so newcomers can join us there!

Andyv2 Wrote:One other question I have is if the simulator allows you to make your own team or if you have to upload something from in-game.

Also as Dragonstrike said, the sim has both functionalities: you can either upload your in-game teams (only to use a shiny Pokémon there actually) or make new teams from scratch like you can do on Pokémon Showdown. About the stuff that's not working properly, there's a [link=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o4QB...6833029033]bug list[/link] where you can see what's been fixed/added, although I'm not well informed about how accurate it is since I've been away for a while and the sim had to be reset. I can ask around if you want but, unfortunately, I guess it doesn't matter if you can't have your Battle ID.

That really is a shame. I look forward to when everything is in working order. It is really interesting that the simulator allows both functionalities; I guess allowing a section specific for in-game teams is a better assessment of effort versus reward when it comes to breeding/soft-resetting particularly tricky target competitive builds (for example, how many people will really attempt to breed a competitive Gargryph just so it has Hidden Power Poison [or even just Gargryph alone]?). I suppose I will just lurk around the Breeder's Discord in the meantime to try and get a better handle on the comp scene.
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