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Competitive Guide: M-Arbok
#21
(06-05-2017, 11:53 AM)Lord Windos Wrote: It makes it less powerful, yes, but I don't think sub was broken enough like Baton Pass to be nerfed in such a way. Logically, sound based moves getting past it make sense, but mechanically it more or less invalidates Substitute's purpose in the first place, which doesn't make much sense at all. I'm fine with Infiltrator getting past sub, since its an ability that makes ALL moves get past it, and not just a sub-sub category of them. Plus, it requires the Pokémon to sacrifice another usefull ability to just counter Sub users, which is fair play in my book.

Its not a big issue usually, but in cases like Nucleon it highlights how ridiculous the new mechanic to Subs is. Oy viee......

Reminder that Infiltrator doesn't just bypass substitutes.  It also bypasses Light Screen, Reflect, Aurora Veil, Safeguard, and Mist (it didn't bypass subs in gen 5, either).

And Nucleon is just a really extreme case of Hyper Voice spam.  M-Gardevoir and Sylveon are probably the next best examples, though it's far less extreme.  Subs aren't useless, it's just really hard to use them when really powerful and popular pokemon are known to carry a move that completely invalidates its use.  It's not as hard a nerf as banning baton passing more than one stat at a time.

Sometimes, I also think Nintendo and Game Freak just decide they want things to make more sense realistically as opposed to competitively.  Just look at all the defensive Ice types out there, for example.  Of course, sometimes they completely ignore that as well...
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