Pokemon Uranium
[Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Printable Version

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RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Dragonstrike - 05-28-2019

Okay, so, before I finish up the post I'm making, can you tell me what EXACTLY those consequences are going to entail, Windos?


RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Lord Windos - 05-29-2019

(05-28-2019, 11:46 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Okay, so, before I finish up the post I'm making, can you tell me what EXACTLY those consequences are going to entail, Windos?

I can!

If Weavile is selected to pay the cost, he'll become a Shadow Pokemon, with all the consequences thereof! He'll become Pure Shadow Type, gained a few Shadow Moves, and either a Surprise for Strength, Dexterity, or Vitality, but in exchange he'll effectively have 0 Happiness, at the and end of each Action I'll Roll to see if he go into Reverse Mode (Heavy Recoil for his Actions, needs an Action to snap them out of it), his attacks are now made Lethal (and can't be made Non-Lethal, only held back in Damage, due to having a distinct lack of restrain), require Loyalty Rolls to not kill any Target it precieves a threat to you/himself, Special Rolls/Events will pop up for them (Good and mostly challenging bad), and if anyone ever got a hold of his Pokeball, his Loyalty will switch over to them completely. If you can raise his Happiness to 5 naturally again and have Reiner do a Purification Ritual to help open his heart again (Something he can improvise himself, based on what he learned from Archie/His mum), pay for 15 Ranc Berries and 5 Risuko then feed them all to him (All at once or over the course of a five days), or get a Empathetic Legendary/Mythic like Celebi to help (Or Unlock the power in Mew), then you can cure Weavile of his Shadow State, and he'll unique Moves (I'll consider requests) and/or EX Versions of his existing Moves.

If Reiner takes the Cost, his Will will drop to 0, and will be semi-permanetly capped to 2, he loses all benefits of The Progenitor's Blessing EXCEPT his Empathy Bonus (It'll be halved) and + 1 the Pokemon a normal trainer can command at once (Albeit at a - 2 Accuracy Penalty to All Pokemon), he'll have a MUCH MUCH harder time gaining the Happiness/Loyalty of Non-Shadow Pokemon/HIGHLY Empathic Pokemon species, a harder time control Disobedient Pokemon that he hasn't fully bonded with (And of those that he had they'll still have a - 1 Action Penalty due to the frayed connection [Except Kingda]), have increased difficulty with socializing with people, have a tendency to fall into emotionlessness unless he actively keep himself out of it, killing/being morally bankrupt will be much more appealing/reasonable for him (logically speaking), and need either Mew or to complete his quest/revenge against Blackthorn/The Elders and go through some self discovery to rid himself of his 'Shadowed' Status. In exchange, he'll gain all SORTS of Shadow Based Powers/Abilities to replace Progenitor's Blessing (Of which I'll brainstorm during the break between my campaigns, but they'll be good, I promise!), his Attribute Caps and Skill Caps will be increased by 2 (You'll still need the XP to level them up, though), He'll gains 3 Free Specialty Points on the spot, His Maneuvers all become Shadow Moves (Strike -> Shadow Rush [And Shadow End, if you work towards it], Grapple - > Shadow Hold (Spread), Knock Down -> Shadow Down, Medical Check -> Shadow Shed (Works like old version, but better), etc..), he has increased bond/effectiveness with Shadow Pokemon (And they have lessened problems), gains a deeper understanding of THE SOUL and Mind (+ 3 Science: Conciseness/Shadow Pokemon), is immune to being Confused + Crippled By The Standard Consequences of Total Will Loss + Mental Conditions in general, and can convert Wild Pokemon into Shadow Pokemon for 1 Will Point, and Tame Pokemon for 2 (They'll sell for more, and they gains the benefets of being Shadowed + lessened consequences due to Reiner being 'Shadowed'.)

Oh, and Weavile stops being such an amoral jerk, his emotional problems are completely sorted out and cleared up in a healthy manner (Shadow State won't touch that!), and he'll want to make amends with Reiner/you Dragonstrike now that he's no longer clouded with anger/delusions of blame, and he'll take orders from you and generally stop being such an arse (well, at the start - future interactions may sway him back into being hostile, but hopefully not!).

That's it! Complicated, and has some heavy downsides, but their ARE benefits to offset the bad and Weavile remains a good friend/partner to everyone, so its fairly balanced towards being a net positive change mechanically. Now that you are fully informed, the final choice is now yours to do as you please!


RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Spiritmon - 05-29-2019

Hmm....it's a complicated choice. In a way, it could give Weavile and Reiner to mends things between each other...but at the cost of him become a shadow Pokemon sounds a bit...artificial to me. 

Not to mention in the future when he be purified, he could be really piss off for be Shadowfied. And the cost of not able to hold the Lethality of his moves?

....

Honestly it can only bring many problems to Reiner in the future. Not to mentioned he loose almost all his ability, including the ability to control more than one pokemon.

But...if Arial has such problems with his brother, if he has a chance to fix things between them, even with the slight chance, he would probably take it. And Weavile and Reiner are almost close as brothers.

My point in that? It worth a shot. Have downsides but hey, Arial made some tough choices himself and even the madman find happiness. It has risks, but there is anything in life who is not dangerous?

You could accept the choice, and see what the future holds. But that's decision it's completely up to you. I... just want to help.


RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Dragonstrike - 05-29-2019

Hmmm...well, there is one thing I'd like to point out regarding Shadow Pokemon, at least as far as all the ones Cipher made in Colosseum and XD.

None of them are actually Shadow type.

Those ones were all 100% artificial, though, I suppose...


RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Spiritmon - 05-29-2019

(05-29-2019, 05:27 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Hmmm...well, there is one thing I'd like to point out regarding Shadow Pokemon, at least as far as all the ones Cipher made in Colosseum and XD.

None of them are actually Shadow type.

Those ones were all 100% artificial, though, I suppose...

A little question about Shadow Pokemon: They receive neutral damage against all types of pokemon correct? Do they also receive neutral damage against Nuclear types?


RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Spiritmon - 05-29-2019

Also, in this universe of yours Windos there is any Gym Leader or Elite Four member who command Nuclear type Pokemon?


RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Dragonstrike - 05-29-2019

(05-29-2019, 08:51 AM)Spiritmon Wrote: A little question about Shadow Pokemon: They receive neutral damage against all types of pokemon correct? Do they also receive neutral damage against Nuclear types?

I don't know.  There are no precedents that are legitimately available in Uranium that demonstrate Nuclear's interaction with 'typeless' types.  Thus, that interaction will be dependent on Windos's interpetation of it.

Shadow itself is 'typeless', as none of the damage it deals is dependant on the opponent's type.

In Colosseum, the moves are truly typeless, dealing neutral damage to all types.  As such, Shadow Rush (the sole Shadow move in that game) is more powerful to make up for its lack of other advantages and has a Recoil effect to balance out its universal usability.

In XD, Shadow is semi-typeless.  The moves can do SE and NVE damage, but it's determined by whether the target isn't (SE) or is (NVE) a Shadow pokemon, not by the target's type.  Shadow moves are less powerful overall in this game, and the most powerful ones typically have heavy drawbacks to compensate for how easily they can shred most everything that isn't a Shadow Pokemon.

In both games, Shadow Pokemon's types are unaltered, unlike with Nuclear pokemon.  It is impossible to receive STAB on Shadow moves, and Shadow Pokemon are still weak and resistant to all the same types as their normal variety.

In addition, Shadow Pokemon are impossible to tell apart from the standard variants by appearance alone unless a) you have a moderate amount of psychic/aura related ability or b) you have technology that can act as a substitute for 'a'.

There are two tells for when you're facing a Shadow Pokemon:
 - Their aura is very dark and shadowy
 - They show little restraint due to their lack of emotion.  They have no problem with atacking anything, even humans, particularly when they go out of control.

That's the brief primer on Shadow Pokemon mechanics.

There are a few other precedents in the main series games for typeless interactions as well.

??? Type: In Gen 4 only, there is a ??? Plate (which can only be obtained through cheating) that can turn Arceus and Judgement into ??? Type.  It is truly typeless, receiving and dealing neutral damage to everything.  In addition, Weather Ball becomes ??? Type when the move Shadow Sky is in effect in XD.  If a pure flying type had existed in Gen 4 and had used Roost, they would become ??? Type for the duration of the move's effect.  ??? Type was removed entirely in Gen 5.

Typeless: If a pure Fire type such as Arcanine or Typhlosion uses Burn Up in Gen 7, they become the Typeless type until they switch out.  It is mechanically the same as ??? Type despite being called something else.

There also four more examples in side games I can think of off the top of my head.

- The final bosses of Pokemon Rumble Blast, PMD: GtI ,and PSMD are all mechanically typeless, though no name for the 'type' existed in Gen 5 or 6. They all deal and receive neutral damage from/to all types.

- In Pokemon Conquest, Arceus's Omnipotent Ability gives it several effects, including being able to hit all types for neutral damage. Its Judgement is still officially Normal type, though, and it is the only move Arceus can use in that game. Arceus is also always Normal type, and is thus weak to Fighting type moves and immune to Ghost as normal.


RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Spiritmon - 05-29-2019

I think the only "pure" shadow Pokemon I can think could be Shadow Lugia. But I dont recall if he has STAB boost with Shadow Moves.


RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Dragonstrike - 05-29-2019

(05-29-2019, 10:14 AM)Spiritmon Wrote:
I think the only "pure" shadow Pokemon I can think could be Shadow Lugia. But I dont recall if he has STAB boost with Shadow Moves.

They do not.  They are still Psychic/Flying as normal.

They are also an exception to the above general identifications for Shadow Pokemon since their appearance is drastically altered, unlike with other Shadow Pokemon.


RE: [Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels - Lord Windos - 05-29-2019

(05-29-2019, 05:27 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Hmmm...well, there is one thing I'd like to point out regarding Shadow Pokemon, at least as far as all the ones Cipher made in Colosseum and XD.

None of them are actually Shadow type.

Those ones were all 100% artificial, though, I suppose...

Hmm....well, in that case, Weavile can still retain his Normal Typing alongside his new Shadow 'Typing' . He still gets the Resistances and SE Damage from it (Among other things), but he'll look just like a normal black kitty to most appearance wise. Heck, given his species' typical behavior, his extra Lethality/aggression might not raise any flags either if managed/bluffed right.

Reiner would still become Shadow Type if he shouldered the cost, though. 

I will point out something I think is obvious: You could have Reiner make Weavile pay the cost, phone the Merchant for all the Berries needed to unShadowfy his arse (It would cost one Big Nugget, due to discounting), and then force feed them all in one setting (If you're fine with giving him a stomach ache/food overdose [Non-Lethal Problems]) to instantly restore him back to normal.

That right there is the easy way out to pretty much that whole mess, with minimal long term consequences. The other easy way out is have Reiner eat the cost, as he can manage his new state of being and benefit from it (Hello Stat Benefits!) without it negatively affecting his most important Pokemon/Chara Relationships, but still suffering a bit none the less. Beth decided to converse with Reiner due to him being so upset over his partner flying the coop and offer a solution to that mess out of sympathy/interest in his choice , and thereby undo all the negative build up that Weavile has undergone throughout the campaign. If Reiner were okay with Weavile, she wouldn't have done what she is currently doing, and everyone would be out of Celadon now. That's the jist, really.