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[Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Printable Version

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RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Dragonstrike - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 08:29 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Not too sure if I was being clear or not, but Pyra doesn't want to kill these Pokemon, mates. She just wants to KO them completely before moving on with Marcus' Errand. Of course, given how difficult it is to understand her at times, I find it quite reasonable and amusingly fitting that everyone just misinterprets her actions based on their own assumptions. You know what they say about them, after all.....

For all intents and purposes, Conkeldurr has already been KOed.  He's just still conscious but exhausted for story purposes (pretty common in PMD for boss fights and the like to do stuff like that).  Any further damage to him would be Lethal as he is currently.


RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Lord Windos - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 10:33 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote:
(03-02-2021, 08:29 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Not too sure if I was being clear or not, but Pyra doesn't want to kill these Pokemon, mates. She just wants to KO them completely before moving on with Marcus' Errand. Of course, given how difficult it is to understand her at times, I find it quite reasonable and amusingly fitting that everyone just misinterprets her actions based on their own assumptions. You know what they say about them, after all.....

For all intents and purposes, Conkeldurr has already been KOed.  He's just still conscious but exhausted for story purposes (pretty common in PMD for boss fights and the like to do stuff like that).  Any further damage to him would be Lethal as he is currently.

*Shrugs* If that's the way you're playing it, then Pyra probably would assume otherwise before first hit, but would immediately stop trying to hurt him once it's clear her hits weren't KOing but Lethal.  She hasn't tried to 'Faint' an 0HP but conscious Pokemon before, so she wouldn't know that trying to keep hitting them wouldn't work (or at least, not ASAP).


RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Dragonstrike - 03-02-2021

I'm gonna hold off on responding with Marcus and Karen for the moment.  If what Karen and Marcus have said already isn't enough to say/imply what they think Pyra meant and the gravity of such implications, there's larger problems here that need to be addressed by the party as well (IC or potentially OOC), not just by the NPCs.

If necessary, I'm open to doing a possible retcon here.


RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Lord Windos - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 10:59 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: I'm gonna hold off on responding with Marcus and Karen for the moment.  If what Karen and Marcus have said already isn't enough to say/imply what they think Pyra meant and the gravity of such implications, there's larger problems here that need to be addressed by the party as well, not just by the NPCs.

Fair enough, mate. Communication is key in any TTRPG, and if it's not clear or working well then it needs to be addressed and fixed ASAP.

Personally I didn't think that hitting the Conk with a Strike would actually do Lethal Damage, just give him that one extra bit of hurting to properly Faint him, so naturally that 'understanding' transfered over to Pyra. Didn't know WHY Marcus and Karen were so shocked over Pyra's insistence on fully KOing Conk, so I just assumed they were just against her being extra mean / vindictive / carrying out her own brand of justice . It is only after you explicitly pointed out that Pyra Striking Conk would deal Lethal Damage and brought up the matter communication that I started to get what was the big deal you were trying to convey with that scene.

However, Pyra wouldn't so easily come to the same realization as me, as she just doesn't have the same common sense and set of values/perspectives/morality most civilized Pokemon have due to her status as both a demon and probably some form of psychopathy/sociopathy (whichever of the two) to go 'Oh, so that is what they meant, and I should now be horrified/upset over my actions' .  That, and she's been a mood for awhile over her place in the team and her continued friction with them, which combined with this most recent incident of them 'denying' her what she believe is simple but not TOO extreme justice and Marcus getting threatening/sanctimonious about it.....yeah it turned into a huge mess. 

The fact this whole situation in retrospect was born partially out of continued misunderstanding on EVERYONE's part is just.....wow. Yikes, I did not expect things to get this complicated...


RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Lord Windos - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 10:59 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: (...)

If necessary, I'm open to doing a possible retcon here.

I'm interested in one too, as if I had known that Striking Conk as he was would've dealt Lethal Damage, and/or caught on precisely WHY Karen/Marcus got so spooked and up at arms over her persistence at wanting to 'KO' Conk,  I SO would have not done what I did with Pyra and did something different instead.

However, just because this just one big mess doesn't mean it can't be a productive one, or still something we (as in, you, me, and everyone else OOC) can enjoy/appreciate and find interesting things to do. Drama is the spice of life, after all, so a little interpersonal conflict can liven things up and create interesting character moments that result in a lot of growth or paradim shift that otherwise would not have been possible.

So....first I have to ask you: do you want to do a retcon of things, Dragonstrike? Because if Pyra's meltdown is causing you headaches then we can just rewind things before she decided to 'grant their wishes' , and then do some gymnastics editing our existing posts to match the new reality (or delete ones entirely, as will likely be the case with Pyra's meltdown and Marcus/Karen's Shock Scene) . Or find another reset point instead, if you don't want to go that far back.


RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Dragonstrike - 03-02-2021

I'd prefer if the party doesn't end up in a situation with the potential to split them morally and pit them against each other.  If we can do that with a simpler solution, great, but the option for a more extreme retcon is on the table.

Before I can do any retconning, though, I need to hear what the rest of the party would like to do, because a retcon could affect much more than just one player and the GMs' posts.  A retcon may not be necessary, and is just one possible solution.  And the further back we retcon, the more posts it affects.


RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Lord Windos - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 11:36 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: I'd prefer if the party doesn't end up in a situation with the potential to split them morally and pit them against each other.  If we can do that with a simpler solution, great, but the option for a more extreme retcon is on the table.

Before I can do any retconning, though, I need to hear what the rest of the party would like to do, because a retcon could affect much more than just one player and the GMs' posts.  A retcon may not be necessary, and is just one possible solution.  And the further back we retcon, the more posts it affects.

The party was already split morally (Pyra is 'Amoral?' , Kogeki is 'Neutral Evil' at least, while the rest of the party is 'Lawful Good' [Maybe Chaotic Good for Kee]), but I guess you mean that you don't want that split to become utterly disasterous IC and OOC . In which case, yes, totally don't want THAT to happen! 

I honestly don't know of a truly simple solution, but the closest one I can come up with now is someone realizing their is a misunderstanding going on and what exactly it is (Pyra's wanting to KO Conk vs Marcus and Karen thinking she wants to kill/brutalize him), and either stepping in to fix things after or before Pyra's meltdown (or before Marcus and Karen start said fuss). Before at any point would be the most ideal, as it would prevent Pyra from offending Marcus and burning bridges with him unnecessarily, but hey, if everyone WANTS that meltdown to happen for various reasons who am I to protest?

The most radical but 'best' solution would be to retcon Pyra's initial 'Wish Granting' and retool it entirely, in which case that's going to be affecting a LOT of posts. All of Spiritmon's would probably be okay with only a bit of editing, but everyone elses would have to be changed significantly based on what I do instead with Pyra at that moment in time.

But yes, before any decisions are made, let's hear what our friends have to say about this! Because this is quite the thought provoking mess we've inadvertidly create, oh boy...


RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - no one - 03-03-2021

Daxter is most definitely chaotic good. He's just not down with beating a beaten enemy. And as for the retcon, I'm not all for a complete retcon because these last few posts were kinda revealing, personality-wise. Especially for Pyra. If we absolutely have to retcon something, just retcon the bits that refer to it as lethal damage. Dax, Kee, Marcus and Karen would still be horrified at the thought of attacking a beaten enemy, even if it isn't with the intention to kill them.


RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Lord Windos - 03-03-2021

(03-03-2021, 12:22 AM)no one Wrote: Daxter is most definitely chaotic good. He's just not down with beating a beaten enemy. And as for the retcon, I'm not all for a complete retcon because these last few posts were kinda revealing, personality-wise. Especially for Pyra. If we absolutely have to retcon something, just retcon the bits that refer to it as lethal damage. Dax, Kee, Marcus and Karen would still be horrified at the thought of attacking a beaten enemy, even if it isn't with the intention to kill them.

Can you quote those bits, mate? Because I want to see them, and determine if I agree of not.

My retcon points would be: 1) prior to Pyra giving her rant (as in, Marcus telling her off based on a misunderstanding) OR Marcus giving his threat/warning, and 2) At the very start of the mess, where I would either have her back off entirely from getting JUSTICE OR have her more plainly state her intention to JUST KO Conk and Forrestress. In both cases we prevent her from blowing up on Marcus and potentially alienating most of her team (save for Kogeki, the bro ninja), but with 1) we don't have to change any posts before then and only have to have somebody make a post that has their character difussing the situation, via either enlightening everyone about the shared misunderstanding before she gets the chance to blow OR using less forceful/threatening means to get both Marcus and Pyra to back down and explain themselves a bit better (because the Cubone certainly jumped the gun a bit, imo, and needs to be held somewhat accountable) .

I prefer a full retcon myself to just greatly simplify matters at the cost of a whole bunch of editted/deleted posts, but I'd take a minor one if it means we all get spared Pyra showing off her Demon Side in such an ugly way.


RE: [Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows - Spiritmon - 03-03-2021

Well...I kinda like some drama and how everyone develop and grown...but I pass though a similar situation before during a pre-campaigh Dragonstrike test to make me more used to the system and we...well we go a very difficult situation.

If you really want to go down that way with that retcon to avoid this conflict, you can do it, but if you two feel necessary.

I feel conflicted about the retcon...but you two do what you two think is right.

Also, I don't know if Kogeki is more leaned to Neutral Evil. Perhaps he could be between maybe consider True Neutral maybe, with a bit close to Neutral Evil.