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[Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery (/showthread.php?tid=2386)



RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - Dragonstrike - 02-26-2020

(02-26-2020, 08:22 AM)Spiritmon Wrote: You either ignoring my last post here, or you simple didnt see. So let me ask this again:

Did the Sitrus Berry grown again? 

And:

Did you decide how much XP it would cost to make Final Gambit have their original effects again? Or have their max power increased? Because a max power of 10D6 kinda kill all the "All or nothing" thing. 

Can I make a suggestion? Why dont you make Final Gambit have the same effects of Super Fang, with the Faint thing still consider. Without the effect of "Foe Remaining HP+4 Base Power". At least this way its not way to much OP and can still be useful. Ghosts still be unaffected to this move, but at least will be a good move to useful. That way it will still do good damage but it will not faint the foe in one strike, since the double "1" still gonna be consider.

Or I just haven't gotten around to posting in my Game Thread yet because I'm working on things in the background and trying not to burn myself out after that massive post I just made in Skull Ruins.  Patience.

No, I haven't settled on a cost yet.  I'm still working out Surprise costs, and I'm not anticipating that you guys are going to be getting expensive Surprises before my main game has even begun.

That would make FG a different move entirely, which is something I wish to avoid for now.  I appreciate the suggestion and the considerations for the future, but let's focus on the current events for now, please.


RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - Spiritmon - 02-26-2020

(02-26-2020, 08:58 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote:
(02-26-2020, 08:22 AM)Spiritmon Wrote: You either ignoring my last post here, or you simple didnt see. So let me ask this again:

Did the Sitrus Berry grown again? 

And:

Did you decide how much XP it would cost to make Final Gambit have their original effects again? Or have their max power increased? Because a max power of 10D6 kinda kill all the "All or nothing" thing. 

Can I make a suggestion? Why dont you make Final Gambit have the same effects of Super Fang, with the Faint thing still consider. Without the effect of "Foe Remaining HP+4 Base Power". At least this way its not way to much OP and can still be useful. Ghosts still be unaffected to this move, but at least will be a good move to useful. That way it will still do good damage but it will not faint the foe in one strike, since the double "1" still gonna be consider.

Or I just haven't gotten around to posting in my Game Thread yet because I'm working on things in the background and trying not to burn myself out after that massive post I just made in Skull Ruins.  Patience.

No, I haven't settled on a cost yet.  I'm still working out Surprise costs, and I'm not anticipating that you guys are going to be getting expensive Surprises before my main game has even begun.

That would make FG a different move entirely, which is something I wish to avoid for now.  I appreciate the suggestion and the considerations for the future, but let's focus on the current events for now, please.

FG is kinda already is a different move right now, so that argument of yours is invalid. My suggestion at least keep the move more balanced and useful.

If you not gonna change Final Gambit effects, at least let me have a different move of Final Gambit for Hime instead of that move. Because you decided to change this move move only when I fight against the Ice Gym Leader.

You could have at least have warn me before I choose the move. You are not being fair here Dragonstrike.

At least let me choose another move instead of Final Gambit.

And no, I prefer fix the issue in hand instead of let it cause a conflict.

Thats why I asking the help of Phantom and Windos. They know how better fix issues than me and more important you.

I also would like to request @Iron help in this issue. Since Iron and Windos are more experience GMs than you, I want to requested their assistant in this. And I refuse to continue until this issue be resolve. One way or another.


RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - PhantomUnderYourDesk - 02-26-2020

(02-26-2020, 09:08 AM)Spiritmon Wrote: Thats why I asking the help of Phantom and Windos. They know how better fix issues than me and more important you.

So the issue is about how to handle Final Gambit, right? Well, I'd just leave the move as it is and use the mechanics it has as stated in the corebook, which is...
[Image: 9fb9ff5ebc99189e265df9a44e4e35c26b61c68c.png]

...the foe's remaining HP + 4. I don't see much reason to change it, and if we start changing how moves work and are handled, we will likely end up with more houserules and changes than necessary, so I'd rather stay simple and not edit things. That, and changing kinda feels like it kills that 'all-or-nothing'-aspect Final Gambit has.

The way I see it Final Gambit also does not guarantee that you KO the foe, if that's what's troublesome: The Damage dealt to the foe's (those remaining HP +4) is still ROLLED and no auto-damage, so it might leave the foe with some HP still.

The only thing I'd add is what bulbapedia says about Final Gambit missing and Items/moves/Abilities that prevent fainting:

Quote:If Final Gambit doesn't hit the opponent due to missing, type immunity, or protection move, then Final Gambit will fail and the user will not faint.

The move's side effect is not considered as inflicting damage to the user, and so if the user is holding a Focus Band, Focus Sash, or has Sturdy, it will not activate and the user will still faint. However, the move inflicts damage to the target, and so the target's Focus Band, Focus Sash, Sturdy, and/or Endure can still trigger if applicable, so that the target will be left with 1 HP.

(Source)



RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - Dragonstrike - 02-26-2020

I do not appreciate the personal jab, Spirit.  That was entirely unnecessary.

If I revert that change to Final Gambit, expect a content rebalance to account for it. It puts me in a situation where I either restrict how effective the move is in certain fights (or even outright fails. This restriction what I'm trying to do with the current iteration of FG), or I buff my bosses in some other manner to keep them challenging (and I'd rather not make my bosses massive HP sponges just because of one move, since that only perpetuates the issue instead of solving it).

Main Series FG is the definition of an all or nothing move since its damage is purely based on the user's HP. Pokerole FG is instead also usable as a last ditch effort, similar to how Self Destruct and Explosion can be utilized, due to being based on the opponent's HP instead of the user's. This is something I'm keeping in mind when considering how to balance the move.


RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - PhantomUnderYourDesk - 02-26-2020

(02-26-2020, 09:33 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote: (...) If I revert that change to Final Gambit, expect a content rebalance to account for it.  It puts me in a situation where I either restrict how effective the move is in certain fights (or even outright fails), or I buff my bosses in some other manner to keep them challenging. (...)

That would be fine and absolutely fair, agreed.

------------------

@Spiritmon, try not to let things become personal, alright? That's indeed not only unnecessary, but also kinda rude. We don't want things to become toxic, do we?

Can I, uh, recommend you one more thing? Yes? Alright, eh... Don't spam Final Gambit. Or, don't start doing that. That would be
  1. not only boring and not very challenging if you'd try to end battles super-fast via FinalGambit'ing
  2. but also perhaps bad for Hime if she'd were to faint often, that poor thing.



RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - Lord Windos - 02-26-2020

......Why oh why is drama and conflict in the threads is something I often wake up too.....

Spiritmon, I appreciate you value my input highly, but bare in mind the way I balanced and designed my game is distinctly different from Dragonstrike's and Iron's methods, as that I'm not overly concerned with making everything 'balanced' or 'by the books' when it comes to campaign challenge and design. So long as I make a game that's at least somewhat coherent in its plot and setting that everyone enjoys, then I'm happy and more than happy to entertain more wild ideas to spice things up. Case in point, I'm more willing to allow powerful mods , Moves, Items , etc. because I prioritize an exciting and frenetic experience and your opponent potentially have access to the same stuff you do or better. Final Gambit would be exactly as powerful as it was during Ultra Necrozma's fight, but that just means that it'll be just as powerful in an enemy trainer's hands too, or if its Counterd back onto you. That, and if you kept using it to cheese boss battles, I'd start finding ways to cheese the Final Gambit user if it was imparing my fun with things.

Honestly, I'm fine with however Dragonstrike designs/redesigns FG or similarly problematic Moves . While some decisions regarding the mechanics of the game I find wanting, they generally do a good job with whatever they choose for the game , so I'm not going to infringe on his right as DM in this matter. That is that.


RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - Spiritmon - 02-26-2020

You two have points...I would like to give a possible solution. A simple mathematic resolution. In important fight, like against Primal Pokemon, Legendary or other Plot Pokemon the total damage resolution be half in two?

A example: If we fight against a Primal Gyarados, and that Primal Gyarados have 300 HP. And then then the damage dice be in total 100? You half the damage by 2 and the total damage will be 50 Damage. And you can ignore the +4 Damage if you feel the need mate.

Primal and Legendary is excusable to be immune or resistant against OHKO moves or other moves who use remained HP as base damage, because they more supernatural creatures stronger than other Pokemon. At least this makes things fair.

If Final Gambit is a problem, then why not ban already Final Gambit mate? I okay in have another move instead of Final Gambit. But I not gonna accept a move with their effects so much nerfed. Its either that solution, or another move. And I refuse to continue this campaigh until we enter on a fair deal for both GM and Player (Me).

And I refuse to use Final Gambit as only a inferior version of Super Fang with Fainted effect of 10D6. 

And of course I will not Spam Final Gambit all the time. Asura has Final Gambit in Celadon City. And did I use against the fight against Arbok? No. Against Necrozma? No. 

And you should know me better by now Dragonstrike. No need to nerf a move that level because of it.

And this is my answer. I refuse to continue, until we find a fair deal. For both parts. I decided to continue in this campaigh for Windos and Phantom only. If I am really need to stay, at least keep things fair.


RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - Dragonstrike - 02-26-2020

Completely banning a move entirely from use isn't in the spirit of the game we're playing.  That option is entirely out of the question.


RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - Spiritmon - 02-26-2020

(02-26-2020, 04:21 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Completely banning a move entirely from use isn't in the spirit of the game we're playing.  That option is entirely out of the question.

So...what you suggest? I think we should resolve this question right here and right now, instead of just put below the carpet and think this never happens. Why cant we find a solution fair who can help us both?

I already give 3 ideas of how to this with this problem.


RE: [Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery - Spiritmon - 02-27-2020

Alright, fine. By your silence I already know the answer. Lets keep things as they are now.