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[Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows
(02-27-2021, 09:34 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: OOC GM Note: I'm not going to throw ultra high powered moves like Zap Cannon and Self Destruct at you this early in the game.  This encounter is meant to be harder, yes, but you guys are absolutely capable of beating it.  Just look at everything you can throw back at them as a team.

I have yet to design an encounter with the express intent of purposefully causing you to lose.

Oh yeah, and then you decide to throw at us: A three stage Condelkur who is in its final form. A three stage Combusken in its second form. AND a final form Forrestress who even without Self-Destruct (who I don't buy since both moves he learns by 0 XP) can smite us with other moves against us who still beginning the journey with few moves, we still didn't raise our defensive stats and only now I get a STAB move.

Sorry if I don't buy what you saying. Between run and die (or worse get 1 point in Primal in the start of this journey) I prefer 1 thousands times to run.

Or simple murder them, but that option is out of question.
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(02-27-2021, 09:35 PM)PhantomUnderYourDesk Wrote: @Spiritmon, you will NOT kill anyone, for multiple reasons that I won't explain now. I understand and empathize with you that you're super angry and pissed, but please please get a hold of yourself, okay?

Why? Give me one reason in not doing? 

Since the first day we came to Guild, most of the people we meet in the campaign was either: Rude, hostile or both/in between. 

Team artificer.
Team Gallop.
Torracat.
The Guildmaster daughter.
And now these guardians.

And we did anything wrong to receive such cold hostility. And every time we try be cool, the only we received was middle fingers.

But you know what? I had enough.

I taking a break from this campaign. Use Kogeki as a NPC or something else. I need to have a time for myself to calm down. And then I will think if I should stay or go.
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(02-27-2021, 10:12 PM)Spiritmon Wrote:
(02-27-2021, 09:35 PM)PhantomUnderYourDesk Wrote: @Spiritmon, you will NOT kill anyone, for multiple reasons that I won't explain now. I understand and empathize with you that you're super angry and pissed, but please please get a hold of yourself, okay?

Why? Give me one reason in not doing? 

Since the first day we came to Guild, most of the people we meet in the campaign was either: Rude, hostile or both/in between. 

Team artificer.
Team Gallop.
Torracat.
The Guildmaster daughter.
And now these guardians.

And we did anything wrong to receive such cold hostility. And every time we try be cool, the only we received was middle fingers.

But you know what? I had enough.

I taking a break from this campaign. Use Kogeki as a NPC or something else. I need to have a time for myself to calm down. And then I will think if I should stay or go.

.....*Heavy Sighing* Sprit, Spirt, Spirit. I leave for a few days to sort out some post graduate business, and I come back to you blowing up about a simple Combat Encounter AND threats to murderlate those Pokemon and anyone else that offended you. Not good, not wise, and certainly not befitting of you, mate. You ARE better than this, I know it, and you know it as well. You CAN'T let your temper get the best of you, or let it dictate how you handle the game OR your interactions with us, and I KNOW that you know that and how to conduct yourself superbly. 

Simply put: Calm down, and get your head on straight. BE the good spirited person I know, buddy, and quit it with the fits over uttery trivial matters like basic Combat Encounter. Alright?

To address your issues with this Semi-Boss Encounter, let me break it down for you and demostrate how it is not as bad as it first may appear:

- Statwise, I strongly think they won't be above their Corebook Stats, and their Dice Totals will be between 6-8 at MOST. I heavily doubt Forrestress will be doing more than one Action per Round without Automizing, while Murkrow probably can barely do 2 WITHOUT Pain unless its holding an Oran or something. It's the Fighitng Type we'll have to worry about raining Damaging Attacks on us, and even then they can't do TOO many or have them hit TOO hard if they've invested any XP into their Skill Block or Movepool beyond what their Instinct allows. And if they did, then that means less overall Moves to deal with OR lower Base Stats in general.
- Movewise, only Conk and Combust have particularly dangerous ones at 20 XP or less, and even those have caveats that limit their power. Conk has Rock Slide for Spread Damage and Flinching, but likely doesn't have the Special or Channel to make it truly a threat - and if he does, then it means his Physical Moves will take a beating in their power in exchange. Combust has Double Kick, Flame Charge, and maybe Flamethrower (Depending on what Gen Movepool Dragonstrike is pulling from and how they run it), but the later is easily blocked by Kogeki and leaves them open for a Round, the later doesn't become a threat if we KO them fast enough, and the last is probably lacking for the same reasons Rock Slide is for Conk. 
- Forrestress LOOKS intimidating with all those 0 XP Moves, but since Dragonstrike has outright stated it won't be using S.D. or Z.C. then it has become a LOT less threatening. Sure, Heavy Slam CAN be brutal (particularly to Karen, oh noes!), and Automitize can let it catch up in DEX to let it start spamming Moves, but I believe those can be easily Dodged or Clashed if need be (or Tanked, in Dax's and Pyra's case, since they resist Steel), and if it uses Auto then it's going to be wide open to getting Damaged without putting out any in turn. Really, it'll be more annoying and threatening with its Bug Bite potentially eating our Revivers and Orans, in which case that makes it a priority target to KO ASAP if we're not confidant enough in dealing with the goons without the rezes/heals
- Speaking of which, we have a BUNCH of Revivers, and they probably do not! Even if they KO one of us that doesn't mean squant if they can't KEEP us down long enough to make a difference! Bar that, we have an Escape Orb to GTFO if things get REALLY dicey, or Hoopa if we need the help and don't care about revealing its presences to Marcus over winning.
- Numberswise, we have the advantage, a solid 6 - 4 against them, and it will only grow as we take them out one at a time. ESPECIALLY if we all gang up on one Pokemon at a time, instead of trying to wear out everyone equally , *hint hint* 
- STABwise, they're dead even with us. Conk and Combust only have one Fighting STAB below 20 XP (Disregarding Egg Moves, or the surprise High Level Move) to their name, and they're not particularly scary ones (Low Kick and Double Kick, respectively), while Murkrow and Forrestress have more STABs and variety, but likely lack the Stats to give them much omph beyond their Effects. We're in about the same place as they are, but we have numbers, Items, and an infinite amount of time to stratigize OOC to make ourselves MUCH better than they are by comparison. 
- Initiative-wise, the Party solidly has the advantage here. Kee, Dax, and Kogeki can rather easily ganged up on any one Mon below them to quickly KO them OR heap on so much Pain they'll likely be unable to spam Moves/flub them, while Karen and Marcus can either help finish off Conk (if he's the one ganged up on) or just further contribute to the dog pile on either Forrestress/Combust/Murkrow. Even Pyra can bully Mukrow if need be by trying to Flinch it with Bite to deny it an Action OR straight up help KO it if it's the Main Target, or try her luck cleaning up Forrestress with Ember if the group can't manage to neutralize it if it is the Main Target.
- Pyra's Intimidate effectively gives the Party + 1 Defense so long as she's UnFainted, and she has respectable Defenses and two Tiny Revivers to keep her afloat, so Physical Attack won't be AS bad as they could be (which is what most of the Enemies are packing for their STABs and coverage) .

Overall: We have a tough Fight ahead of us against's Conk's Squad if we don't play it smart, but if we DO and coordinate our attacks on one Target at a time and write out plenty of Conditional Actions to account for the worst of their BS then they'll not too terribly difficult at all. Conk is likely going to be somewhat beefer and a hard hitter than everyone else (and be packing at least one ace up its non-existent sleeves), and Forrestress is going to be a hard nut to crack with Phys Moves that are not SE or have robust BP, and has Bug Bite to REALLY annoy and cheese us off, but if either are focused down ASAP then that doesn't really matter all too much. If they prove too much or if the Dice have it against us, then we have Revivers and the Escape Orb as last ditch options, or just outright fleeing and disengaging from the Fight and going around their Tile since they're not a bunch of Speed Demons that could chase us down (save maybe Combust and/or Murkrow, but if they do then it'll be a losing battle for them since they'll be well truly away from help if they follow...). This is a challenging fight, but its one we CAN win, and potentially rather decisively at that!

Get my points, Spirit? If so, then PLEASE don't get pissed off and fret over this Fight anymore, mate....

As for everyone's attitude towards us.....well, I agree it's pretty annoying and frustrating to deal with, but keep in mind that our group is a bunch of noobs and unproven Adventurers to just about everyone but Marcus. They don't HAVE a reason to treat us much more than a curiosity at best or basic common curtisy and politeness, and the more elitest teams would consider us dirt or not worth consideration at all presently. Team Gallop are mostly confrontational due to Pyra giving them a scolding for percieved rudeness, callousness, and idiocy, and that's mostly coming from their Leader who isn't all that social or tolerant towards Extra Group interactions and is very much the competitive/sore loser sort. Team Artificer ARE a bunch of eltist jerks, but they're most all bluster and can't really do anything to our group without incurring the wrath of the Guild for breaking policy and due conduct, so long as we don't try anything to them or rise to their baiting and taunts (and could potentially leave the group alone entirely if Pyra decides to join up with them and curb them away from her friends). The Guild Master is a bit of a pounce and overly heavy handed in their Actions, but they're somewhat expected to be that given their Status as THE LEADER OF THE GUILD , and doesn't have any reason to treat the group with any particular kindness given their characterization. Same goes with their Daughter, if only less so. And the Conk Squad is basically just a redux of the Boldore Squard, as a bunch of Pokemon that want to defend what is there territory and are a bit jumpy about doing it for reasons that are not too apparent. 

If you take that all into consideration, and remember that their are plenty of Pokemon that actually treat the group well and nicely (Marcus , the Kecks, and Kang, for starters!), then things are not too bad for the group socialwise right now. We have a rough start, but we are just starting out in game, and our standing can only improve so long as we don't do anything to piledrive it into the Ground. The pacing of the campaign can obscure that, but we've barely done anything to earn any fame or favor from anyone, and we have roughly a week's worth of in game time before things get anymore interesting and we get our Big Chance to impress, unless Dragonstrike suddenly decides to speed things up.

Oh, and about the Murdering of Pokemon - Don't do that ! At least, don't do it with the group and Marcus right there and extremely willing to stop such bloody brutalizing, and not without the means to cover up said murder or obscure it. Unlike in my campaign you can't so easily get away with killing or being villainous, and most of the group + Marcus (save for Pyra) is thoroughly of the Lawful Good sort that has zero reason to tolerate such 'evil' acts - and OOC their Players are not willing to accept any compromise or allowance for such at all, from what I remember.... - , so trying to break bad is liable to get Kogeki utterly canned and sent to Poke Prison (and unceremoniously removed from the Plot, forcing a Chara Reroll if Dragonstrike allows one in that situation). If you want to go around killing Pokemon or doing other nasty stuff, at least do so in such a way that won't get the rest of the group/Players on your case (or somehow get the onboard with it IC or OOC) or attract the authorities like Beautiflies to Combee Honey.

And.....that's everything I have to say right now, I suppose. I'll stop here for now and let everyone weigh in on what I said if they wish, and then get to writing up a simple enough battle strat for the Conk Squad Encounter afterwards/sometime tomorrow night and simplified Orders/Chara Moment for Pyra in the Main Thread once we've hashed things out here. I'm busy at the moment, and have a fairly important decision to make rather shortly, so don't expect me to be on the forums all too much for the next few days beyond what I've promised. Sorry about that, mates....
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

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Threatening to kill anyone for being rude is a little unhinged. How would that make you any different from the psychopaths from Team Artificers? It's just a distasteful way to react to stuff. You've gotta be thick skinned, because there will always be people who are rude to you for no real reason. IC, I can definitely tell you that Daxter would work against Kogeki if he tried to kill anyone for something that stupid. He's not above stealing and beating enemies up, but he's definitely above open murder. And so am I. Get a hold of yourself, mate.
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Hmm... Alright, having slept over things and thought things over, I think I've changed my mind and believe that it there's not much of a way around engaging in a battle against these guardians(?). I'm still somewhat scared outta-chara to do so (not angry though!), but when looking at things from a bit of a different angle - it appears do- and winable. Besides, we've got these Reviver Seeds and anything indeed, why not make good use of them by engaging in a hard battle...? ( ÒωÓ)و☆

AND we've got Hoopa on our side too. There goes the thought/desire to keep this among ourselves, but in the current situation I'm all for letting them out of the bottle and therefor let Marcus find out if it means one more ally to battle alongside us.
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(02-28-2021, 02:11 AM)Lord Windos Wrote:

I a little calm down now. I just a little tired of that scenario always happening to us without we are giving any solid reason.

If you say is possible to defeat those enemies...then I want to give a try at least. Me thinks before we go forward that battle, we should discuss our strategy of battle about who we should choose first as our primary target. As mentioned Forrestress could be a problem with Bug Bite, then Kee, Kogeki and Daxter could target the attacks on him.

Maybe I could try to Flinch Conk or Forrestress with a Bite power up by Will Point. Risk but could work, and then next round try my luck with Shadow Punch on Forrestress or other enemy.

Guess you right in the social department...Still to much annoying the way the Guild treat us (or other people in general) but you do have a point. I despise that Guild so much. Both IC and OOC, but unless we find other Guild, guess I stuck here and have no choice but accept the situation.

I still grumpy about the whole situation, and I would like the situation be different...but I will not kill those guardians (as much tempting it is or how much I think they deserve). The maximum I will do will be drain they're Auras like I always do. Not in a way to them do die, but enough to them be unconscious for hours and let them to their luck to local wild Pokemon.

Is this more acceptable people?
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(02-28-2021, 07:30 AM)Spiritmon Wrote: (...) Still grumpy about the whole situation, and I would like the situation be different...but I will not kill those guardians (as much tempting it is or how much I think they deserve). The maximum I will do will be drain they're Auras like I always do. Not in a way to them do die, but enough to them be unconscious for hours and let them to their luck to local wild Pokemon.
Is this more acceptable people?

Yes, from my side aura-draining these guardians(?) like Kogeki usually does is acceptable.


Bite will very likely not deal any damage at all on Conkeldurr, both because it's NVE and they'll likely have a decent enough defensive to shrug the Dark-Type'd move off. If anything, I can and will Headbutt them for the chance to flinch them. How many XP are you lacking to learn Shadow Punch at the moment, is it possible Kogeki learns that STAB-move mid-battle for neutral damage against these Fighting Types?
"Anything can be art. Anything can be self-expression. Now take your weapon and run with it"
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Alrighty, somewhat happy that we got this whole situation sorted out! Wish people were a bit more mellow about stuff, but I'll accept what I see for now!

Battle Strategy should be to either target the Conk or Forrestress first, me thinks. Conk is DA BOSS, so KOing him could cause the other goons to scatter if we give them a good enough scare, and he still might have Rock Slide to Spread Damage and Flinch who knows how many people. Forrestress, on the other hand, has Bug Bite to be an absolutely PAIN if it decides to spam it, and if it doesn't it still has Mirror Shot and/or Heavy Slam to fall back on, and Auto. to speed it up to LUDICROUS levels. Both probably have GUD Defense (Forresstress with High one, obviously), but the later probably has bad Special Defense, so Bubble could decent Damage to it , as well as other Special STABs. Karen doesn't have bubkiss to deal with Forrestress effectively, but has Spread Fairy STAB for both Conk and Murkrow, and Confusion for Combust and Conk. Marcus....well, he has a lot of powerful Flinch Moves, so whatever he attacks will be feeling it.

So, here's a basic attack plan:

1. Kogeki and Kee and Dax go after Conk/Forresstress with their STABs first (Shadow Punch/Headbutt/Bubble (Include either Combut/ Conk/ Murkrow in it)
2. Karen uses Disarming Voice to Target Conk and either Combust or Murkrow to do the most Damage, of use Life Dew on the one who'll get it the worst in the Fight.
3. Marcus pounds Conk/Forrestress with his Moves
4. Pyra burns Forresstress or helps KO Murkrow/Conk if Dax and Karen included it in their Spread Moves.
5. We continue focusing on our main Target(s) if we get 2nd Actions.

Based on our Moves, then going after Conk and Combust with Spread would probably be the best way to do the most Damage for Dax/Karen, and Marcus has his Ground STAB to SE Combust. Kogeki would do even Damage to everyon except Murkrow with Shadow Punch, but targeting Conk first would be prudent over Forrestress if they have STONKING DEFENSE, while Kee can do just about the same with Headbutt.

So....going after Conk first would be the most optimal Damage-wise if we include Combust in Spread Damage, then Combust 2nd Target due to us having 2 Members that can SE STAB it. In that case, Marcus should focus his efforts on Conk unless a SE Attack has high odds of flattening Combust after Dax gets down with them, but that decision has to be left to Dragonstrike. Still Bug Bite Forresstress will be ANNOYING if it uses it at all, so even if we deal less overall Damage to it might be prudent to go after it first with everyone but Karen (who should stick with D.A.ing Conk and her choice of 2nd Target.

I believe we should go after Conk first, personally, including Combust in the Spread Attacks and having Marcus focused down the fiery fowl down after Conk is conked out. Pyra can be the one that can handle KOing Forrestress by herself OR finish off Conk if he is heavily Damaged by the end of the Round. That should be the fastest way of dealing with the mob's most potent threats, before we either scare off or knuckle down on the Murkrow and Forresstress. What do you think, mates?
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

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(02-28-2021, 10:31 AM)PhantomUnderYourDesk Wrote:

I already have unlocked Shadow Punch. I get enough XP from the battle against Hippowdon. Bite could help in that guy, but maybe use Shadow Punch could bring better results.
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(02-28-2021, 12:31 PM)Lord Windos Wrote:

I think it is a great plan. With some luck my Shadow Punch might go critical. And even if I have a bad luck with the accuracy roll, my move will hit anyway. Although in my opinion, if we managed to quick dispatch Conk first, our 2nd target to destroy should be Forrestress. Burn status is bad, but have our healing items devoured is equally bad. Not to mentioned if we loose Karen by Forrestress is dangerous.

However if we finish Conk very quickly Kogeki could help beat Forrestress with other moves such as Bite. Fortunately Forrestress don't have resistance against Dark type, and could Flinch him, giving a extra chance to survive with most of our items safe.
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