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Arise, arise, long dormant thread, and roam the top spot of the Competitive Section once again....
*Uses Max Revive on Thread*
......aaaand there we go! Back in business, baby!
Okay, with the theatric out of the way, let make an announcement absolutely no one was expecting: I have pretty much revamped my entire Dunseraph Guide, using the knowledge and self reflections on it I've gained over the years to not only give it a much needed update, but improve and build upon it too! Now, I recall saying I wouldn't do this sort of thing, but......well, its my very first guide of one of my favorite Pokemon in Uranium, and a lot of things have changed for it (to me, at least), so I think that justifies another version of it. Tell me what you think of it, mates!
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Two major things I'd like to note concerning the usage of alternative paralysis methods:
- T-Wave does have a niche over Glare, actually. Unlike Glare, T-Wave has 100 accuracy. Glare might not be wildly inaccurate (like Stone Edge or Focus Blast), but it can still miss. If you aren't worried about paralyzing pokemon immune to Electric, it's superior to Glare. Of course, given that Archilles, Escartress, and Laissure are all very notable Ground types with a lot of offensive presence...
- Skyfall, Dragon Breath, and Body Slam all have one advantage over the non-attacking moves that inflict Paralysis: they...well...attack. Dealing additional chip damage while still inflicting Paralysis 60% of the time can be a godsend, and you can't lose out on inflicting Paralysis because you got Taunted. It does tend to work better on faster Serene Grace users like Jirachi, but it is still a notable benefit, imo.
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(10-02-2018, 08:23 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Two major things I'd like to note concerning the usage of alternative paralysis methods:
- T-Wave does have a niche over Glare, actually. Unlike Glare, T-Wave has 100 accuracy. Glare might not be wildly inaccurate (like Stone Edge or Focus Blast), but it can still miss. If you aren't worried about paralyzing pokemon immune to Electric, it's superior to Glare. Of course, given that Archilles, Escartress, and Laissure are all very notable Ground types with a lot of offensive presence...
- Skyfall, Dragon Breath, and Body Slam all have one advantage over the non-attacking moves that inflict Paralysis: they...well...attack. Dealing additional chip damage while still inflicting Paralysis 60% of the time can be a godsend, and you can't lose out on inflicting Paralysis because you got Taunted. It does tend to work better on faster Serene Grace users like Jirachi, but it is still a notable benefit, imo.
I totally agree. Besides, Dunseraph its a pretty bulk pokemon, so it can resist a good amount of damage. With that Serene Grace, it can cause good damage and cause status at the same time. Its a awesome combination.
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(10-02-2018, 08:23 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Two major things I'd like to note concerning the usage of alternative paralysis methods:
- T-Wave does have a niche over Glare, actually. Unlike Glare, T-Wave has 100 accuracy. Glare might not be wildly inaccurate (like Stone Edge or Focus Blast), but it can still miss. If you aren't worried about paralyzing pokemon immune to Electric, it's superior to Glare. Of course, given that Archilles, Escartress, and Laissure are all very notable Ground types with a lot of offensive presence...
- Skyfall, Dragon Breath, and Body Slam all have one advantage over the non-attacking moves that inflict Paralysis: they...well...attack. Dealing additional chip damage while still inflicting Paralysis 60% of the time can be a godsend, and you can't lose out on inflicting Paralysis because you got Taunted. It does tend to work better on faster Serene Grace users like Jirachi, but it is still a notable benefit, imo.
Thanks for the input on the guide, mate! Have any other suggestions or corrections, now that you've more time to think?
Concerning T-Wave and Paralyze Attacks...
- You're right about T-Wave's superior Accuracy being a nice trait, but as you pointed out there are plenty of Ground types that would love to switch into it and get a free turn to set up if Dunseraph isn't packing the appropriete boosting move. Drilagans, Shell Smash/Chlorophyll Cocancer, and Tertlard are other notable threats that would despise Paralysis since Speed is a major component on how they function, and it would rightly screw over any Evolite Gligar/Gliscor that switches in on it. On sets with Coil, Glare would effectively have perfect accuracy after a single boost, while more Supporting sets could run Wide Lens to practically give it/its other low accuracy Attacks (Like Rock Slide/Air Slash/Charge Beam) perfect accuracy. Using T-Wave therefore would only be preferable on Specail Sweepers, and only if you are okay sacrificing convenience for guaranteed hits.
- Three main problems with all the Paralysis Attacks is that A) They are resisted or outright nulled by common types, B) Dunseraph doesn't exactly have the most robust Offensive stats to use them well sans a boost, and C) If its not running Glare for speed control, its either relaying on Tailwind/Agility (Someday, I hope....) or Team Support to get the lead. As you said, though, they at least give the angelic dragon a chance to get off Paralysis after a Taunt, and prevents Magic Bounce/Magic Coat users from reflecting its Glares right back at it. If the meta game starts having MB/MP and Taunters becoming prolific, then taking a risk with Paralysis Attacks is more worthwhile, but otherwise I would still recommend guaranteed Paralysis Moves like Glare/T-Wave.
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10-03-2018, 02:14 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2018, 02:16 PM by shademonkey.)
I'm considering your analysis on Dunseraph a finished work and not one in progress so allow me to react on any little detail I feel like reacting on. While reading I didn't agree with everything you wrote there, I'll explain why.
Dunseraph
Base Stat Values (From the Pokemon Uranium Wiki as of 10/2/18)
HP: 150 Sp. ATK: 100
ATK: 80 DEF: 80
Sp. DEF: 75 SPD: 75
Alongside Astronite and S51-A, Dunseraph is perhaps one of the most versatile Pokemon in Uranium, though it does not seem that way at first glance until you dig a little deeper. Its mediocre Defenses, coupled with its good offense but poor Defensive Dragon/Flying type, atrocious Speed, and low to middling Attack and Special Attack, leave a lot to be desired compared to both its draconic brethren or not. Belaying those Defense, however, is an gargantuan HP Stat of 150, the highest out of all Pokemon in Uranium, save for the queen of Ant Hell herself Siekamater, who only edgeS the dragon god out by a measly 5 points. Additionally, it also has access to both Calm Mind and Coil, nicely patching up either side of its Atk/Def. stats, which coupled with its HP gives it an almost absurd amount of bulk.
On the topic of moves, The deific serpent has a downright terrific movepool to draw upon it inherited from its lowly Dunsparse lineage, as well gaining the nifty additions from its Flying typing to make it even more godly. What really gives this Dragon∅ its wings, though, is its primary ability, Serene Grace. Given that it has Flitching MoveS on both the Physical and Special offense side, the most reliable Paralysis Move in the game in Glare or Tailwind to gain the lead, and the aforementioned Calm Mind/Coil, and it can run the dreaded Paraflitch strategy however it tickles its angelic fancies. Throw in the plethora of its Moves with potent secondary effects like Ice Beam/Blizzard, Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Iron Tail/Rock Smash etc. , and the reliable recovery it has in Roost, and it gives you an annoying, persistent, and debilitating threat more akin to a scheming trickster god than its Abrahamic inspirations.
In contrast, its other ability, Cloud Nine, while not having the sheer utility and offensive edge of Serene Grace, puts the brakes on any and all weather teams[1], save for Hail setters like Anderind and Glavilug (practically speaking). Alongside its Dragon/Flying type, it has either resisted or neutral match ups against common weather setters of Mega Electruxo and Mega Archilles, and outright completely shutdown Bulky HA Encartress, unless they are packing appropriate coverage Moves like Ice Beam or Rock Slide/Stone Edge. Against common Cholorphyll users and both forms of Drilagan, it’ll outspeed and rain divine retribution on them all with a Tailwind boost/Glare, while against Swift Swim users it must tread more carefully, given that most of them either have Ice coverage available or have favorable type match ups. With Sunny Day/Rain Dance and its excellent bulk, it can also be an effective weather setter/re-setter upon switching out, and it naturally pairs well with Sandstream[2] (And perhaps Hail, though that stretches it) teams given its being completely unaffected by the weather’s chip damage and its immense Movepool letting it grant∅ boons to its team through coverage or support. While strictly speaking not as good as Serene Grace offensively, Cloud Nine Dunseraphs make excellent checks against or a durable support for most Weather Centric Pokemon.
By the sum of its sacred parts, Dunseraph is an extremely flexible, versatile, unpredictable, and enduring Pokemon that can be IV breed and EV trained to be whatever a given team needs, making it a tough nut to crack. Like almost every Pokemon (Looking at you, Speed Demons Archilles/Inflagetah and Green Demons Nucleon and Urayne…..), it has its hard checks and counters, though some vary depending on what variant is ran. Ice and Steel types like Frosthra and S51-A either heavily threaten or wall the deific being unless it's packing a Fire Move and makes the right plays, while Fairy types like Slyveon and Luxelong are deadly nuisances if up against a serpent not packing either Poison Jab or Iron Tail. Fast/Faster Dragon types like Yatagayru and Fafniter can pluck Dunseraph’s wings unless it has either Tailwind up and/or Glared them (Which wouldn’t help in either case, since Faf. Has Ice Shard and Yata is immune to Paralyze/Can run Choice Scarf effectively), and most Rock types like Astronite, Theriamp, and Majugold can chuck it if doesn’t have the right Bulk or moves to endure. Its Flying type also grants it an accursed weakness to Stealth Rocks, which is a hinderance to it preforming its various jobs regardless of its bulk or Roost. Any form of Status is also highly unwanted by the divine serpent, with any of them proving a god killer depending on the variant. Finally, outside of Tailwind, Glare, and/or other forms of Speed Control its horribly slow, so its almost always going to take a hit before it can set up or debilitate unless good prediction is employed.[3]
Altogether, Dunseraph is a great Pokemon that has a lot to provide, but also has a great deal of weaknesses that need to be accounted for. If you manage that task – a relatively easy to do, in my opinion – then you have a Pokemon that will have an opponent praying to it for mercy if and when it comes to judge their team wanting….
MOVESETS
Can’t Touch This Dragon God~ (Special Sweeper)
Glare/Flamethrower[b][4][/b]
Air Slash
Roost/Flamethrower[b][5][/b]
Calm Mind/Tailwind/Roost[b][6][/b]
Nature: Timid
Items: Leftovers/Life Orb Abilities: Serene Grace EV’s: 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed
The special set of choice for Dunesereph, in a nutshell. Glare has its place there to proc Paralysis without much worry, and Air Slash contributes to the flitch side of Paraflinch, as well as getting STAB, taking out the likes of Seikamater, Garlikid, and both Baariette quickly, as well as being a decent way of dealing with Physical Walls like Mega Metalynx. Roost is for recovery plain and simple, and a way to reduce its weakness against any number of Pokemon. Calm Mind is there to set it for the long run, granting you it much needed Special Bulk and Attack to better cut away at its foes before its luck runs out.
However, Tailwind can be ran over Calm Mind if you want the deific serpent to be fast as Hermes , as well as providing much appreciated support to its team. If you are running TW, then replacing either Roost or Glare with Flamerthrower and it running a Life Orb is recommended, as it’s leaning more towards blitzkrieg than sustain or debilitation, and having Moves/more Power that can better slag Ice and Steel types is a must for that playstyle. Alternatively, you can choose not to run a boosting move entirely and solely rely on Glare/Team Support for extra coverage and keep Roost for sustain, though as a consequence the god snake's own offensive stats will remain somewhat lackluster without a LO powering them.
Wrath of the Gods (Physical Sweeper)
Glare/Earthquake/Poison Jab
Rock Slide/Bite
Roost/Earthquake/Iron Tail/Rock Smash/Poison Jab
Coil/Tailwind/Roost
Nature: Jolly
Items: Life Orb/Leftovers Ability: Serene Grace EV’s: 252 ATK , 252 SPD
The physical version of the previous moveset. As you can see by all the Slashed Moves, however, it’s a far bit more complicated. In sum, all of it boils down to whether or not you want to have either Coil or Tailwind as its boosting Move (or both, if you're trying for a pseudo Double Dance Set). If you have only Coil, go with Glare, but Roost can optionally be replaced with Iron Tail to counter Rock- and Fairy-typeS and/or fish for a Defense Drop, Rock Smash for a far weaker anti Weakness Move but guarantees dropping Defense, or Poison Jab for Fairies or a decent chance to Poison most Pokemon. If only Tailwind, then Glare or Roost can be replaced with either Earthquake or Poison Jab to waylay Rock + Steel types and Fairies respectively.
The choice of Rock Slide/Bite might seem like an odd one at first glance, given the former’s better coverage and higher BP. RS is, however, also slightly inaccurate, and its resisted by the common Steel type, most prominent of which are S51-A, Metalynx, and Lathan, making its usage somewhat of a liability. Bite, while weaker, is fully effective against Steel types and better takes care of both S51-A and Astronite along with other Ghost + Psychic types. Either choice comes down to preference, the given metagame, and your team comp, so think carefully which move is more desired for the god dragon. Leftovers and Life Orb comes down to either sustain or more Damage, but LO is more recommended on this set, given that Dunseraph has lower ATK than S.ATK.
God-King of Stall (Defensive Tank Set)
Toxic/Glare
Air Slash/Flamethrower/Ice Beam/Any Attacking Move
Roost
Protect/Substitute
Nature: Calm or Careful (Depending on the Attacking Move)
Items: Leftovers/Lum Berry Ability: Serene Grace or Cloud Nine EV’s: 252 Defense/S.Defense (Depends on Nature) and 252 HP; 252 Defenses (If You want an all around Defensive variant at the expense of raw bulk)
The idea behind this set it is essentially out turtle the other team to death. Toxic exists to putrefy other walls and put Offensive Mons on a timer, while Glare exists to mainly cripple fast Pokemon and try to pull of Paraflinch shenanigans with Air Slash. If you are not using Paraflinch or some Secondary Effect Move (or don’t care about the increased Status Chance), then using Cloud Nine and any Attack Move of your choice is recommended, as CN has more situational usage in that case and the divine serpent has coverage options for days. Roost is for reliable recovery, enough said. The choice between Protect and Substitute mainly comes down preference and whether or not you choose Toxic or Glare, but given that common and powerful Hyper Voice users like Nucleon, M-Syrentide, Slyveon exist, Protect and Toxic might be the more safe/reliable combo to pull off. Still, its hard to pass up +100 HP Subs....
The Second Coming of Loki (More Annoying Flinch Haxor)
Glare
Air Slash/Rock Slide/Bite
Rock Tomb/Rock Smash/Tailwind/Roost
Swagger
Nature: Timid/Jolly
Item: Leftovers or Life Orb (Roost) Abilities: Serene Grace EV’s: 252 Speed, 252 ATK/S.Atk
If you want to really tilt your opponent all the way under the table, or are just plain mean, this set is for you! The Paraflitch combo is in full force here, but it has a few new additionS that change everything. With Swagger, Rock Tom, Rock Smash, Roost and Tailwind + Flinch Hax, you are essentially giving the opponent the Morten’s Fork. Once everything is in place, they either have to roll the dice to see if their pokemon can meek out an attack without hitting themselves, or switch out and have the next ‘mon debilitated offensively/defensively. That, or give Dunseraph a free turn to heal/set up Tailwind. Works even better with Hazards on the field too (except for Toxic Spikes)! Have fun!
This Set Will Make Battles Really Dragon (Offensive Tank)
Roost
Calm Mind/Coil
Glare/Filler
Air Slash/Rock Slide/Filler
Nature: Bold (Calm Mind) , Careful (Coil)
Item: Leftovers Abilities: Serene Grace/Cloud Nine EV’s: 252 Defense (Calm Mind)/S.Defense (Coil) and 252 HP (Both)
Essentially a different variant of the God King of Stall Set, with the emphasis here being more focus on being an Offensive/Durable Tank rather than a Passive/Pesky one. Roost, Calm Mind, and Coil, in conjunction with the right stat spread, give∅ the deific serpent ample Bulk and fortitude to survive against most any opponent. Glare and Air Slash/Rock Slide can be used together to try and Paraflitch, but two Moves with a crippling Secondary effect is equally effective for the godly dragon. You can also use Cloud Nine just as well on this set, especially on an Anti Weather Mon/On Sand/Hail (Maybe) Teams, since its focused on sustain rather than outright debilitating offense. Whether or not you want a Physical or Special Offensive Tank depends heavily on your own team comp, but in general SOTs are the better choice given Dunseraph’s higher S.Atk and the most common Ice move users being Specially oriented.
The Nature God (Cloud Nine Support Set)
Sunny Day/Rain Dance
Glare/Toxic
Roost/Tailwind/Safeguard
Roost/Rock Tomb/Air Slash
Item: Damp Rock/Leftovers Abilities: Cloud Nine EV’s: Any (Details Below)
A set designed around exploiting Dunsereph’s niches as a Cloud Nine Weather Setter. This set is more heavily emphasizes support than most of the others, rather than offense. With Cloud Nine and either weather move, you essentially have the power to reset the weather to whatever you want upon using the Move and then switching out. Glare is there to cripple speedier pokemon, but Toxic might be the better choice, since Mega Electruxo will be a constant threat to deal with. The Rest is a grab bag to choose from, with Roost an ever present option. Tailwind for team support, and Safeguard is to keep it and its team safe from status. Rock Tomb more about forcing switches than damaging, but Air Slash is useful for dealing with countering Fighting types and Metalynx. Since this set can lean towards either fast or slow support and has potently no attack moves, what EV’s to train is up to the preference of the trainer.
Other Moves/Items
Expert Belt: Given its diverse movepool, it would make decent use of this item, but using it forfeits the recovery provide by Leftovers.
Choice Scarf: This can put you ahead of a good portion of the unboosted metagame long enough to give you a chance, but it is still a gamble on whether you will live. That, and there’s plenty of threats with either Priority or that are just plain faster even WITH + 1 on the divine serpentine being.
Roar: An interesting move that synergies synergizes well with Support or Tank sets, as together with Hazards on the field it racks up impressive damage on the enemy team, dispels buffed sweeping attempts, and disrupts team formations. Problem is that its hard to slot in on any of them over immediate debuffs, coverage, or defense measures, and its negative priority could force Dunseraph to take hits it may or may not wants....
Ice Beam: Ice Beam helps deal with other dragons and Flying types. Plus, it has a 20% chance to freeze, which is nasty in and of itself. Its also nasty against Coalith, Cocancer, and Gliscor, so if those Pokemon are a serious enough threat, then this Move will certainly be a quite a cold shock for them!
Fire Blast: A stronger and less Accurate Fire Move that still benefits from Serene Grace for the Special Sweeper Set. It arguably has better synergy with the Physical Sweeper Set, however, as mixed Offenses would allow it to better deal with pesky Steel/Ice types, and the Accuracy Boost Coil provides mitigates its inaccuracy. It does mean that you have to tailor EVs/Natures more carefully for that set to work, but if you can……the opponent won’t know what hit them! (In a similar vein, running Earthquake on Special Sweepers to hit Electric and certain Steel types SE is also an option, though somewhat less viable)
Dragon Pluse: A more damaging STAB move, if you don’t want to run Buffs or debuffs. Mainly useful on Cloud Nine Tailwinders, since it provides easy options to OHKO or cripple rival Dragon types, particularly Yatagaryu.
Ancient Power: You only have a 20% chance of getting those boosts, but they will sure help when they do!
Thief: Can be used on the Loki/Annoyer Set with no Item, as its main goal is to frustrate and troll your opponents!
Charge Beam: On a Special Tailwind Set with Ice Beam/Flamethrower and Air Slash, you essentially have pseudo Moxie Sweeper on your hands, only easier to pull off! The Move has pitiful Damage and the same Accuracy as Rock Slide, though, so using it over Calm Mind/Roost could shoot you in the foot, so to speak.
Other Electric Moves: Yatagaryu does the whole Electric Dragon stick infinitely better than Dunseraph, so use them if you want a Thunder Dragon God.
Curse: This Move is downright useless for Dunseraph, as it not only does it have anti-synergy with Serene Grace, but Coil completely outclasses it in every way. Its only arguable use is on a Trick Room Team with Gyro Ball, but that’s so gimmicky and niche its completely laughable. If you really want to go against its very design, though…..
Drill Run: Crit Chance ain’t affected by Serene Grace, and it has access to Earthquake. Next!
Spite: Not worth a moveslot, since Dunsereph is always trying to actively support or be offensive, and its tanky enough that using the Move is inconvenient at best.
Magic Coat: Debatably useful, more so if Dunseraph is used as a Support Lead, but it really doesn’t have much room to run it over other utility Moves/Roost…
Pain Split: Not so debatably useful, as its massive HP means that it will be sharing its health with the enemy more often than not. Sharing is not caring in this instance, so avoid like Toxic Spikes!
Sky Fall/Dragon Breath: Not recommended unless you are running an Offensive Special Tailwind Flitch Sweeper, as guaranteed Paralysis from Glare is a heck of a lot more reliable/safe than rolling the dice to see if you’ll Paralyze the opponent and start going first. Even then, Flamethrower/Ice Beam/Charge Beam are typically preferred for the much-needed coverage/POWER they provide, and given that Air Slash is resisted by Steel types, adding another Move that does bugger all to them isn’t the wisest of ideas….
Thunder Wave: It has Glare. Enough said.
Agility: As of the current version of the game its unavailable since nothing can breed it on a Dunsparce, but if the devs were to later add this Move back in for it in some manner it would give the god dragon a method to simply increase its Speed without worrying about refreshing Tailwind, effectively allowing for more ease of Sweeping on those sets if supporting the team isn’t a priority. Please, make it happen someday devs!
Dragon Dance and Caustic Breath: I remember once upon a time these Moves where either available/listed as being available for Dunseraph to learn, but now they aren’t. Why did that happen, I ask? Dragon Dance would be a match made in heaven for Physical Flitch Sweepers, while Caustic Breath can at least generate momentum by forcing switches with the crippling debuff it inflicts. As with Agility, may this divine serpent someday receive these blessed gifts to use and abuse to its sacred heart’s content….!
Counters to Dunesereph
While it has a lot of bulk from its HP and versatility, its speed is little to be desired. With a base speed of 75, a vast majority of pokemon can out speed it and set up their own strategy. Inflagetah can revenge kill it with extreme ease if it is not running max DEF and HP EV’s, and a Nucleon will just straight up OHKO it to death if Dunesereph cannot predict the switch and paralyze it. On that note, Nuclear type generally will be a nighmare too.
Anything with Taunt are bordline poison for Dunseraph, so be on the look out for common users of the Move. More over, as mentioned in the Base Stats/Overview, ANY Status is debilitating for the divine serpentine being, with Toxic being a death sentence to Tank variants, Burn for Physical Varients, and Paralyze as a general all around screw you for it. Stealth Rocks is also a reliable method of at least softening it up, but Roost/Leftovers and its bulk can mitigate the effectiveness of the hazard.
Steel types are an absolute menace as well. S51-A and Metalynx can potentially wall Dunseraph silly and whittle away at it much faster than it can back at them, with the UFO goon even potentially packing Icy Wind to make a serpent sicle out of them! Diakatuna and Tracton are threats on the other side of the spectrum, as they are strong, fast Steel types that will quickly put the hurting on unless they get Paralyzed on the switch with Glare or a Tailwind is up. Even in those cases, Tracton can eventually stall long enough for it to accumulate Enough Speed BoostS to win with Protect and its typing. Flamethrower/Fire Blast will nicely take care of S51-A/Metalynxes, but not so much Diakatuna/Traction. Contrarily, Earthquake works wonders on the Speedy Steels, but proves less than to completely ineffective against the Defensive Ones. Given that each of those Moves are ALSO use different Stats and that Dunseraph hardly has the room for them in its sets, it leaves the Dragon God more often than not distinctly unprepared against one of the duos – and that’s if they’re running Earthquake/Flamethrower in the first place.
Electric types are immune to Paralysis, so unless YOU have other status moves, flinching is all you got, and since most of the viable one are fast as lightning…..not looking like a good match up there overall without Earthquake and good prediction. Ice types will freeze it solid quickly unless you have Flamethrower on hand, or Iron Tail for Physical Variants. Fafniter and Alpico get special mention, as no matter how fast it is they can potentially have Ice Shard to send the angel crashing to the ground.
Fairy types are perhaps the worst, though, since even with Poison Jab on a Physical set, they can still easily out speed and OHKO or THKO you if you don’t have Tailwind up or Sticky Web/Hazard Support. The Worst among these are Winetinger, Luxenlong, and Mega Mermaid. Winetinger has Misty Field to not only negate status effects, but basically gives its team Dragon resistance for 5 turns. Luxelong will mostly likely OHKO it due to its own critical STAB unless predicted and checked, and Mega Mermaid can straight up wall anything Dunesereph could throw at it, and retaliate with a Pixlate anything. The exception to that is if it runs Charge Beam, but that heavily dependent on how many Special Attack boosts it racked up, and whether or not the move will hit.
Finally, Priority is perhaps one of the more notable and frustrating ways (for the user) for Dunseraph to be countered, as Speed Control and Flinch Haxs don't mean squat when a target can just practically ignore it. This makes Inflagetah, Sucker Punch M-Arbok, Ice Shard users (as mentioned above), etc. veritable god slayers for weakened ones, or put enough damage on it that the next Pokemon an opponent sends out can clean them up in a jiffy.
Partners for Dunseraph
The best partner to a Dunseraph has to be S51-A, ironically, as it not only resists everything its weak too, but it also usually comes standard with Recover and Rapid Spin, giving the god dragon much needed anti Stealth Rocks support. Doesn’t hurt that the extraterrestrial bugger is about as flexible and bulky (if not more so) than it AND resists a couple of their own weaknesses (Fire and strong Fighting Moves).
Either Archilles is also a good partner, as it they easily clear∅ away or scare∅ Ice, Rock, AND Steel types, and appreciate a fellow reptile that handle its their own Water and Ground weaknesses fairly well. Laissure, on the other hand, provides either Hazard Support in the form of Spikes/Stealth Rock and/or Intimidate to make sweeping/cleaning up for it easier, but you create a gapping weakness to Ice type in the process if you go with the pairAstronite, meanwhile, can effectively be tailored to perfectly support the god dragon and the team as a whole with its own brand of versatility/utility, but its vast many weaknesses (none of which it shares with Dunseraph, save for arguable Steel types) couple with the serpent’s select but glaring ones can make such a pair high risk/high reward.
Hazards in general make Dunseraph more divine, as they soften up targets enough to sustainably improve the odds of successfully Flinchhaxing, or simply save it the trouble of setting up with Glare/Tailwind in the case of Sticky Web against grounded ‘mons. Clerics like Slyveon or Luxelong can also help with keeping Dunseraph nice and Status Free, but the former is slow while the later stacks Ice weaknesses. Speaking of the fairy drake, it can pass along Dragon Dances or Calm Minds via Baton Pass to facilitate its Flinch Haxs without set up on their part, while Stenowatt does similarly with Baton Pass + Speed Boost and/or Tail Glow/Dragon Dance. Beware of phasers if you go along with BPing, though, especially potential Haze users like Bluberog.
Bulky Water types also pair well with them, as they have the capability to counter/check the ruinous Ice/Rock types, act as formidable buffer against Steel types, and have similar immense sustain. A lot of them also have access to Scald, allowing for a wider variety of crippling effects to be sprinkled on the enemy team. M-Syrentide, Brainroar, Bluberog are fantastic example of this sub-type, to name only a few. Encartress, meanwhile, appreciates Dunseraphs warding off Grass types with Air Slash/Flamethrower while neatly taking care of the serpent’s own weaknesses, and has Sandstream to help chip away at targets and fuel a Sand Team. Cloud Nine Dunseraphs in general can work like glue on Sand Teams, while in turn the rest of its mates keep pressure of its feathers by pulverizing/wearing down its checks/counters.
Petrify Chimiconda and M-Arbok are great partners too, since they can function as Speed lowering pivots to more safely bring in Dunseraph for it to either set up and/or cripple an opposing Pokemon. The hissing hydra in particular can also serve as a Trapper or Revenge Killer if its carrying Pursuit/Sucker Punch, allowing it to remove weakened threats to its more angelic serpentine counterpart (Astronite and S51-A, in particular). Chimiconda, meanwhile, melts Ice and Steel types like no one’s business, and can act as a lure for Ground + Water types that Dunseraph can handily take care of them through Flitchhax, Stall, or good old classic crippling with Status.
Haagross is an interesting partner for Dunseraph, as while it doesn't provide any notable synergies/Type Resistances for them (Save for being a Fairy Killer), it DOES have access to Sticky Terrain, which essentially functions as Psychic Terrain in Uranium, but without boosting Poison/Bug Moves (Which makes it strickly speaking inferior, but since Psychic Terrain doesn't exist in this Game so far as I know, that doesn't matter as much). This allows it to essentially cripple the Priority Speed Demons Inflagetah and Archilles, among other common Priority users, enabling the god snake to Flitch Hax Sweep without fear of a rude interuptions. It also can potentially Learn Volt Switch and actually learn Sticky Web, allowing it to support Dunseraph with SlowTurn pivoting and/or Speed Control. Its quad weakness to Ground is neatly covered by Dunseraph's Flying typing, though strong Psychic Attacks are still a threat to either unless the biohazardous slug or accended snake has the odd coverage move.
Final Analysis/Summary
With the Paraflitch, Stalling potential, and sustain this thing has, it can either stun lock entire teams with impunity, or slowly whittle them down into bite size nibs. It can also force switches rather well with, setting up predictions that can turn the tide of battle in your favor, and is versatile enough to fit in just about any team. Its speed, however, is a major downside, setting it up to be revenge killed by Nuclear or heavy hitters, or being walled by Steel types. Fairy, Ice, and Nuclear types are just a straight up death sentence unless you get the drop on them. You have to play it safe and smart to use Dunesereph effectively, or you could just be one Pokémon down faster than you liked. If you can manage that feat, though, then you’ll receive the God Snake divine blessing in all the battles you summon them in.
General observations
- Spelling and grammar. That bothered me a bit.
- Too many slashed options in your sets don't really help prove Dunseraph's versatility. Versatility comes from the number of options it can use effectively, not from the sheer quantity of moves boosted by Serene Grace. Additionally, I feel like some of your sets lacked purpose and were just put there for no reason. I'll explain my point further when I get to each set individually.
- Roost and Glare are compulsory moves on any Dunseraph set, I genuinely don't understand why you would forgo one or the other given their immediate and immense utility. A case could be made for Glare if one does not want to make paraflinching the main focus of their set.
- Tailwind. Is. Not. Viable. In. Single. Battles. Tailwind lasts 4 turns, including the one it was used. T1, Dunseraph uses Tailwind. T2, you switch to one of your sweepers. T3 your opponent switches into a counter while you attack for little damage. T4 you attack again or switch out. Here's how to waste Tailwind turns.
- [1] No. Just no. Dunseraph has a terrible matchup against every weather inducer
- Yatagaryu outspeeds and deals massive damage with Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor, cannot be paralyzed, and takes very little from Air Slash
- M-Electruxo outspeeds and always runs Ice Beam, cannot be paralyzed, and takes very little from Air Slash
- Shell Smash Escartress runs Earth Power, Hydro Pump and Ice Beam
- It's always a 50% chance whether M-Archilles runs Ancient Power or Hidden Power Grass (with the fourth move being Flame Impact) so don't count on it
- Glavinug tanks Air Slashes all day typically runs a little bit of speed investment to outspeed the likes of Beliaddon, so Blizzard is always going to hit Dunseraph first
- You said it, Anderind packs Icicle Crash and Ice Shard
and a lot of climate sweepers
-Ludicolo and Glavinug will run Ice Beam. Life Orb Daikatuna at +2 2hko'es a Bold 252 HP/252 Def Dunseraph with Iron Head.
-M-Drilgann might think twice before staying in against Dunseraph as it typically likes to stay healthy for as long as possible, but that's only when Duns is in. And the opportunities aren't that many, as coming in on a Stone Edge or Knock Off badly hurts the snake.
-There's always a chance Coatlith runs a Dragon stab, depending on its move of choice.
All of those matchups can be improved with paralysis, but that would take Dunseraph a turn that it'd rather be spending healing.
- [2]Naturally pairs well with Sand teams? How?
- [3]Slow isn't a problem as even with 0 EV in Speed, once the opponent is paralyzed, Dunseraph can outspeed most relevant things (M-Inflagetah for the unboosted meta, Scarf Alpico and x2 Kiricorn). If you're worried about not being fast enough without paralysis, 176EVs with a Timid nature outspeed Timid 252 Escartress and Jolly 252 Cocancer before they have a chance to Shell Smash, and with that, classic Adamant 28 Speed Beliaddon.
Set #1
If I understand your intention correctly here, you wanted this Dunseraph to attack while letting its natural bulk do the tanking, right?
- [4]Glare. Period.
- [5]Roost. Period.
- [6]Tailwind is no good. Roost is already in the moveset. I feel like Calm Mind gives the opponent too many opportunities to find a solution to this Dunseraph; it makes it too passive while it would rather get its boosts up quickly then proceed on hitting. Nasty Plot would have been great instead but Duns does not learn it. I'd suggest Charge Beam instead, as you wouldn't be totally passive when using it. Or a less optimal option in running Metronome (the item) in conjunction with a coverage move like Flamethrower or Hex, but that comes at the expense of losing Leftovers recovery.
A possible EV spread could be Timid Nature, 32 HP / 172 SAtk / 128 SDef / 176 Spe.
176 EVs in Speed with a Timid Nature outspeed Timid 252 Escartress before it can Shell Smash. 128 EVs in Special Defense and 32 EVs in HP make sure you survive a +0 Ice Beam on the turn you Glare at it, if it chooses to attack instead of setting up, all the while making for a better counter to the likes of Contrary Chimaconda and optimizing Leftovers recovery. The rest of the EVs are put in Special Attack for greater damage. Life Orb is counterproductive since it reduces Dunseraph's staying power, forcing it to use Roost more often.
With either Charge Beam or Metronome this Dunseraph aims at staying offensive enough while doing an ok job at tanking special hits. I hope I haven't strayed too far from the offensive purpose you originally intended.
Set #2
This is one the sets whose purpose I admit I haven't completely understood. Too many slashed options, maybe. What good is a physically inclined Dunseraph when it forgoes its flinching stab move of choice, has a better Special Attack and a lackluster physical movepool (yes, I mean it. Rock Slide + Earthquake is decent but that's about it for the snake)? That's a genuine question I'm asking.
I guess running Coil + special defense investment would cover a wider range of threats, but that's for you, the maker of this set, to tell us which. And I'd probably reiterate the point I made in the previous set : Coil, just like Calm Mind, would turn Dunseraph into a passive machine that takes so long to be boosted enough that you opponent takes it down first. All in all, I think Set#1 would outclass this one in every way and isn't that much worth mentionning. Please prove me wrong.
Set#3
- EV Spreads. Dunseraph has more to gain by being specially tanky. Being able to counter prominent threats like M-Archilles, Chimaconda; and walling rarer mons like M-Dramsama, Garlikid, Jerbolta, Espeon, Antarki, Pajay, Krilvolver or Gellin is a great boon. To this end Duns should run Calm 224 HP / 32 Def / 252 SDef : Maximal special investment with optimal Leftovers recovery, rest is dumped into Defense.
Interestingly, Dunseraph has a such massive HP stat that it can be tweaked into a mixed wall. For lack of a better threshold, I agree with your second spread of 252 Defense / 252 SpDefense. With pokémon with such neat stat differences between HP and defenses, it's generally better to max out the defenses first. I'd simply change it to Calm, 32 HP / 252 Def / 224 SDef to get a Leftovers number +1.
-moves. Roost and Air Slash are compulsory here. I'd actually run both Toxic and Glare in the last slots, as there's literally nothing else Dunseraph has in store in its movepool to support its teammates. Glare helps your teammates deal with faster pokémon while Toxic puts slower and bulkier mons on a clock, typically those that dont mind paralysis that much.
Set#4
It's basically Set#1, with one move changed in Swagger. I'm not sure that really deserves a mention.
Set#5
Same, this set's invalidated by Sets #1 and #3
Set#6
Again, it's Set#1 with a weather move in the fourth slot and Cloud Nine as an ability. I guess it's somewhat useful but I have to admit I'd like to see a sample team where such a set would fit.
Other Moves
No need to list every move Dunseraph learns if you're going to invalidate half of them yourself (Thunder Wave, other electric moves, Curse, Drill Run, Spite, Pain Split, Dragon Dance, Caustic Breath...). Oh and Agility is available to Dunsparce, read the wiki.
Too tired right now to look super deep into what mons make for good partners and checks to Dunseraph. I'd just mention that Petrifiers dont do anything for the snake, as it can exert speed control itself.
I might be blunt in the way I put things but I'm just speaking my mind so, I apologize in advance
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(10-03-2018, 02:14 PM)shademonkey Wrote: I'm considering your analysis on Dunseraph a finished work and not one in progress so allow me to react on any little detail I feel like reacting on. While reading I didn't agree with everything you wrote there, I'll explain why.
(...)
General observations
- Spelling and grammar. That bothered me a bit.
- Too many slashed options in your sets don't really help prove Dunseraph's versatility. Versatility comes from the number of options it can use effectively, not from the sheer quantity of moves boosted by Serene Grace. Additionally, I feel like some of your sets lacked purpose and were just put there for no reason. I'll explain my point further when I get to each set individually.
- Roost and Glare are compulsory moves on any Dunseraph set, I genuinely don't understand why you would forgo one or the other given their immediate and immense utility. A case could be made for Glare if one does not want to make paraflinching the main focus of their set.
- Tailwind. Is. Not. Viable. In. Single. Battles. Tailwind lasts 4 turns, including the one it was used. T1, Dunseraph uses Tailwind. T2, you switch to one of your sweepers. T3 your opponent switches into a counter while you attack for little damage. T4 you attack again or switch out. Here's how to waste Tailwind turns.
- [1] No. Just no. Dunseraph has a terrible matchup against every weather inducer
- Yatagaryu outspeeds and deals massive damage with Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor, cannot be paralyzed, and takes very little from Air Slash
- M-Electruxo outspeeds and always runs Ice Beam, cannot be paralyzed, and takes very little from Air Slash
- Shell Smash Escartress runs Earth Power, Hydro Pump and Ice Beam
- It's always a 50% chance whether M-Archilles runs Ancient Power or Hidden Power Grass (with the fourth move being Flame Impact) so don't count on it
- Glavinug tanks Air Slashes all day typically runs a little bit of speed investment to outspeed the likes of Beliaddon, so Blizzard is always going to hit Dunseraph first
- You said it, Anderind packs Icicle Crash and Ice Shard
and a lot of climate sweepers
-Ludicolo and Glavinug will run Ice Beam. Life Orb Daikatuna at +2 2hko'es a Bold 252 HP/252 Def Dunseraph with Iron Head.
-M-Drilgann might think twice before staying in against Dunseraph as it typically likes to stay healthy for as long as possible, but that's only when Duns is in. And the opportunities aren't that many, as coming in on a Stone Edge or Knock Off badly hurts the snake.
-There's always a chance Coatlith runs a Dragon stab, depending on its move of choice.
All of those matchups can be improved with paralysis, but that would take Dunseraph a turn that it'd rather be spending healing.
- [2]Naturally pairs well with Sand teams? How?
- [3]Slow isn't a problem as even with 0 EV in Speed, once the opponent is paralyzed, Dunseraph can outspeed most relevant things (M-Inflagetah for the unboosted meta, Scarf Alpico and x2 Kiricorn). If you're worried about not being fast enough without paralysis, 176EVs with a Timid nature outspeed Timid 252 Escartress and Jolly 252 Cocancer before they have a chance to Shell Smash, and with that, classic Adamant 28 Speed Beliaddon.
Set #1
If I understand your intention correctly here, you wanted this Dunseraph to attack while letting its natural bulk do the tanking, right?
- [4]Glare. Period.
- [5]Roost. Period.
- [6]Tailwind is no good. Roost is already in the moveset. I feel like Calm Mind gives the opponent too many opportunities to find a solution to this Dunseraph; it makes it too passive while it would rather get its boosts up quickly then proceed on hitting. Nasty Plot would have been great instead but Duns does not learn it. I'd suggest Charge Beam instead, as you wouldn't be totally passive when using it. Or a less optimal option in running Metronome (the item) in conjunction with a coverage move like Flamethrower or Hex, but that comes at the expense of losing Leftovers recovery.
A possible EV spread could be Timid Nature, 32 HP / 172 SAtk / 128 SDef / 176 Spe.
176 EVs in Speed with a Timid Nature outspeed Timid 252 Escartress before it can Shell Smash. 128 EVs in Special Defense and 32 EVs in HP make sure you survive a +0 Ice Beam on the turn you Glare at it, if it chooses to attack instead of setting up, all the while making for a better counter to the likes of Contrary Chimaconda and optimizing Leftovers recovery. The rest of the EVs are put in Special Attack for greater damage. Life Orb is counterproductive since it reduces Dunseraph's staying power, forcing it to use Roost more often.
With either Charge Beam or Metronome this Dunseraph aims at staying offensive enough while doing an ok job at tanking special hits. I hope I haven't strayed too far from the offensive purpose you originally intended.
Set #2
This is one the sets whose purpose I admit I haven't completely understood. Too many slashed options, maybe. What good is a physically inclined Dunseraph when it forgoes its flinching stab move of choice, has a better Special Attack and a lackluster physical movepool (yes, I mean it. Rock Slide + Earthquake is decent but that's about it for the snake)? That's a genuine question I'm asking.
I guess running Coil + special defense investment would cover a wider range of threats, but that's for you, the maker of this set, to tell us which. And I'd probably reiterate the point I made in the previous set : Coil, just like Calm Mind, would turn Dunseraph into a passive machine that takes so long to be boosted enough that you opponent takes it down first. All in all, I think Set#1 would outclass this one in every way and isn't that much worth mentionning. Please prove me wrong.
Set#3
- EV Spreads. Dunseraph has more to gain by being specially tanky. Being able to counter prominent threats like M-Archilles, Chimaconda; and walling rarer mons like M-Dramsama, Garlikid, Jerbolta, Espeon, Antarki, Pajay, Krilvolver or Gellin is a great boon. To this end Duns should run Calm 224 HP / 32 Def / 252 SDef : Maximal special investment with optimal Leftovers recovery, rest is dumped into Defense.
Interestingly, Dunseraph has a such massive HP stat that it can be tweaked into a mixed wall. For lack of a better threshold, I agree with your second spread of 252 Defense / 252 SpDefense. With pokémon with such neat stat differences between HP and defenses, it's generally better to max out the defenses first. I'd simply change it to Calm, 32 HP / 252 Def / 224 SDef to get a Leftovers number +1.
-moves. Roost and Air Slash are compulsory here. I'd actually run both Toxic and Glare in the last slots, as there's literally nothing else Dunseraph has in store in its movepool to support its teammates. Glare helps your teammates deal with faster pokémon while Toxic puts slower and bulkier mons on a clock, typically those that dont mind paralysis that much.
Set#4
It's basically Set#1, with one move changed in Swagger. I'm not sure that really deserves a mention.
Set#5
Same, this set's invalidated by Sets #1 and #3
Set#6
Again, it's Set#1 with a weather move in the fourth slot and Cloud Nine as an ability. I guess it's somewhat useful but I have to admit I'd like to see a sample team where such a set would fit.
Other Moves
No need to list every move Dunseraph learns if you're going to invalidate half of them yourself (Thunder Wave, other electric moves, Curse, Drill Run, Spite, Pain Split, Dragon Dance, Caustic Breath...). Oh and Agility is available to Dunsparce, read the wiki.
Too tired right now to look super deep into what mons make for good partners and checks to Dunseraph. I'd just mention that Petrifiers dont do anything for the snake, as it can exert speed control itself.
I might be blunt in the way I put things but I'm just speaking my mind so, I apologize in advance
Well, this post is both a pleasant surprise for the massive amount of feedback to my guide, yet greatly humbling too given how many holes you poked into it overall. I did ask for constructive criticism, however, and I'd like to think I can handle it, so no worries or apologies needed for giving your honest assessment. 'Sides, the only way I can improve is through practice and others pointing out my flaws, right?
Now, onto the counter-criticisms/rationales!
Glare and Roost: I believe these can be forgone for coverage, if one wants to focus less on sustain and more on offense. Not the wisest idea unless you can really afford to do it, but it can be done. Particularly since its now been revealed (to me) that Dunseraph can learn Agility (YES, YES!), making it less dependent on Glare's Paralysis or Roost sustain if it can boost up and start either Flinching and/or Charge Beaming/Flamming.
Grammar: Yeah, I have no defense for this. It's one of my big weaknesses when it comes to writing long papers and the like, since its hard for me to read over my work and pick out the mistakes without my mind skipping over those bits. Will get to fixing these mistakes ASAP, so thanks for doing the normally thankless task of being my editor!
[1] : Well, guess I was mostly wrong about that. Doh! However, I believe that a Physical Cloud Niner with Agility, Earthquake, and possibly a Life Orb/Metronome/Expert Belt could be ran to nail Yata. , M-Archilles, and M-Electrux hard after a boost, with the possible exception of the thunder god if they're running CS and max/near max Speed investment. Of course, that would require the angelic serpent to already be on the field and boosted before they come out, and its niche, but at least its can be effective.
On the subject of Hail Teams, I specifically pointed out that Dunseraph practically can't use its HA against Anderind or Glavinug due to the obvious fact they're.....well, Blizzard spamming Ice types. Or at least it can't without getting OHKOed for its trouble. As for Climate Sweepers, I also specifically mentioned that Dunseraph would have to take extreme care against Swift Swimmers due to them packing Ice Coverage and/or superior type match ups against it, and that with a Speed boost and/or Glare on predicted switch does an excellent job of at least checking the rest. Heck, even just Glaring and then subsequently being OHKO (or THKO against non-STAB Ice Moves, maybe) to a Ice type Move on SSers might be a worthy enough sacrifice, in the right circumstances.
[2]: Cloud Nine negates the effects of weather, which include the chip damage brought on by Sandstorm, which means that while its up and the god snake is out it won't be savaged by the weather AND still have fully effective Lefties. Dunseraph also has favorable type match ups against ALL Rock types Counters but Steel, chief among them being Fight, Ground, and Water (Well, not quite, given Ice type coverage, but switching into a Water Move then reacting....), and has both the stats and movepool on either side of the Physical or Special divide to at least check them. Meanwhile, the Rock, Steel, and Ground types can handle its weakness to Dragon, Ice, Fairy, and Rock rather handily, and provide strong offensive pressure to compliment its more defensive/supporting role on those teams. Plus, if Dunseraph is ran with Roar and the Sandteam has a Spiker and/or Stealth Rocker (which it most likely will), it can help rack up damage by forcing switches, and since it can pack a number of Fire type Moves to roast S51-A should it come to switch in and use Rapid Spin.....
[3] I actually did not know this, as I was rightly worried that the Speed Demons that resides on the top of the meta would still be able to outpace it without maximum investment in its own Speed. That, and since Choice Scarf exists, even just a Glare might not be enough to start pulling off Paraflitch. Still, nice to know that those EVs can be better put to use elsewhere!
[4],[5],[6] : The idea behind Calm Mind (and Coil) usage is not to try and slowly stack the buffs before sweeping (That's more the Offensive Tank's role), but to fire one or two off based on making the right prediction or getting the opportunity. For instance, if it Paralyzes an opponent's Pokemon, chances are good that it'll switch out to another 'mon or lose a turn, allowing Dunseraph to use CM/Coil if its healthy enough/doesn't need to Glare the predicted switch in. Just one boost is enough to make it more threatening than ever, so its not like it needs to passively use it to get maximum effectiveness with it.
I do agree with the rest of your suggestions, however, so I'll be sure to implement them in rewriting/adding onto that sections. Hex, though......I thought it was impossible to get it breed onto Dunsparse, since the only Pokemon that learns the move (Misdrevous Line) has an incompatible Egg group with it. Well, unless you can use Ratfitti to Sketch the Move and breed it onto it that way, but that seems to be a long-shot....
Nah, I don't think your suggestions compromise that set's goal. I just decided that it would be best to play it safe with max S.ATK and SPD EV investment, since I didn't know which specific threats that Dunseraph would want to out-speed.
Set #2: Strictly speaking, you are right in that Physical Flinch Hax is outclassed by Special stat and STAB wise, but there are other factors to be considered that make it at least somewhat viable. First, STAB Air Slash is resisted by a good portion of the Steel and Rock types hoping to switch in on it. Rock Slide suffers similarly, but it can hit Rock and Electric types for neutral damage and those pesky Fire types Super Effectively, and Bite gives it overall decent neutral coverage against the targets it wants to stay in against and solid advantage against S51-A and Astronite, two Pokemon that would otherwise wall and/or check it.
Second, if a given team comp already has a good number of Special Attackers, then using Dunseraph's Special Sweeper set is not only redundant, but leaves that team more vulnerable to Special Walls other teams have. Running it Physically, while not optimal, gives a player a Physical Attacker than can better wear away at Special Walls and add variety to their offense. That, and Physical Dunseraph has more ways to handle Fairy, Rock, and/or Steel types with Poison Jab, Iron Tail/Rock Smash, and/or Earthquake.
Third, as mentioned in the Other Moves section, Coil Dunseraph can pull of a Mixed Attacker set much better than a Special one. With sufficient Special Investment, Coil, Rock Slide, Fire Blast, and your choice of last move (Glare or Roost are prime choices, but Earthquake and Charge Beam are also options) allow it to solidly check almost any of its threats without worrying so much about the accuracy of its moves and remain tanky. In particular, Fire Blast/Rock Slide/Earthquake grants supreme coverage against the entire metagame, which is probably the last thing an opponent expects....
Of course, Mixed Sweeping may or may not be a good idea for the god snake with/without team support/Agility, but hey , that's what experimentation is for, right?
Set #3: All of this makes perfect sense to me, so I'll make the right adjustment to that section. I respectively disagree with your opinion that only Glare + Toxic is the most viable, as Toxic Stall with Protect/Sub or Paraflinch with Sub are viable (and rightly annoying) defensive measures for it, so I'll slash those options beside those Moves. That, and if Cloud Nine is run, then Air Slash can always be replaced by another Move, but I now see that's rather niche with this set.
Set #4: The different idea behind this set is mainly playstyle and intent. With the Flinch Haxers , you are aiming to either sweep or use lock down, while with Stall you are looking to....well, stall. Loki Set's purpose, meanwhile, is mainly for harassment and frustrating other players without regard to sustain. Rock Tomb and Rock Smash do a terrific job of hobbling Pokemon on prediction, setting them up any of its other Moves or just capitalizing on a switch. Now that I am thinking about it, having either Roar (With Hazards out, obviously) or Substitute on this set would make it even more fiendish, as between its immense HP, Lefties, and all the switching Swagger/Glare would produce it would more efficiently wear away at the opponent's good graces.
In sum, this set more about being annoying or support than the others.
Set #5: I personally don't find the idea of a Boosting/Offensive Tank to be completely overshadowed by more straightforward Flinch Hax and Pure Stats/Passive Tanking, especially in the late game of battles when Dunseraphs checks/counters have been taken out or worn down. Still, we can agree to disagree, I suppose.
Set #6: You've pretty much stated what exactly it is: Cloud Nine Support. It doesn't have to be more unique or nuanced than that to be effective, but again, that is up to a matter of opinion. I'd like to see it on a sample team to, but.....well, were to find one?
Other Moves: A forth of the reason I list this section out is to bluntly stat straight up if a move is a good option or not with a Pokemon, as not everyone reading a guide will automatically know if a move works best with a given Pokemon (in isolation or compared to others). That, its fun to write that part, and being redundant is not necessarily a bad thing, isn't it?
Petrifiers: While Dunseraph can handle Speed Control by itself, that doesn't mean that it doesn't appreciate a partner that can force switches or let it get off Glare without having to take a hit first (Unless a target has Priority). The fact that M-Arbok and Chimiconda serve the supreme serpentine seraph well with either Trapping, Revenge Killing, or ruining Steel/Ice types also doesn't hurt - quite the opposite, really.
That's all I have to say about this! Don't really have the time now to redo parts of this guide (Curse you college *angrily shakes fist*!), but that just means I can get even more feedback before I do that! So, as always, feel free to comment mate!
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.
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Phantom is my OTP~
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10-03-2018, 06:57 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2018, 06:57 PM by Dragonstrike.)
(10-03-2018, 05:31 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Hex, though......I thought it was impossible to get it breed onto Dunsparse, since the only Pokemon that learns the move (Misdrevous Line) has an incompatible Egg group with it. Well, unless you can use Ratfitti to Sketch the Move and breed it onto it that way, but that seems to be a long-shot....
It actually IS possible to breed Hex onto Dunsparce with Raffiti. Misdreavus learns Hex at 23, and 23 is the highest level you can find wild Misdreavus at on Route 8. Easy peasy.
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