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The Curious Case of HIDDEN Hidden Abilities
#1
I'm not sure how common this knowledge is but I thought I'd put it here just in case. Both just as an "FYI" but also for the sake of getting clarification.

Everyone who's read Aiden's Breeding Guide knows about Hidden Abilities (Massive Thanks Shoutout for that by the way since I missed a LOT of developments since the last Pokemon game I played was XD Gale of Darkness) However, a while back I was breeding for a perfect stat Seikamater candidate, which resulted in a lot of time spent, and more than a few high/perfect IV male Tricwes. Naturally, I kept some of them to breed with other Bug Egg Group mons to transfer those IVs over.

But here's the thing, at least one of those Tricwes I was using for breeding passed on a HA to the offspring, despite neither the female mother, nor of course Tricwe (since it doesn't have an HA) having an HA present. (And, yes, this was a while ago, but I stopped while writing this, went into a cave with Gligars, caught one, and bred it with what I believed was the Tricwe with the "hidden HA," and literally the FIRST egg had a Gligar with Immunity.)

A bizarre circumstance to say the least, but this lead me to assume that the reason some Solar Power Nupins were in the Wonder Trade were due to using hacks, bred from a hacked Nupin, or using a Shiny Duplicat caught using the Pokeradar, as even though Duplicats don't have an HA, Shiny Pokeradar Grass Patches are supposed to be guaranteed to have HAs, and given the previous case of a mon without an HA generating offspring with an HA even when the mother did not possess it, I assumed it would be possible.

I tried a male Tancoon, a female Tancoon, and a genderless Comite bred with one of my many shiny Duplicats, yet even with a sample size of 15 or so offspring apiece, not ONE had their HA.

So I would have to assume that this is only something that can happen via breeding, as the Tricwe in question was bred from a female Tricwe + a male mon that had an HA, and it's the only way for something that doesn't have an HA to be treated as if it has an HA. However, given that there aren't that many breedable Gendered mons without HAs, I don't have anything to compare this too, so perhaps it's something that can only happen to the Tricwe/Seikamater pre-evolution linneage or something. Regardless, there appears to be no way to get the HAs for genderless mons that can't be picked up with the Pokeradar like S51, Tracton, and Nupin unless someone trades the offspring of a hacked mon like with those Solar Powered Nupins that have been floating around. Sad
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#2
Yup, breeding using at least one parent with an inherited HA trait results in the possibility of an offspring with a HA trait in Uranium, regardless of which parent has the trait (or what species they are).  Duplicat, unfortunately, cannot breed HAs itself at the time of writing due to not having any kind of HA at all, unlike other pokemon like Tonemy and S51 (which both only have HAs when fully evolved, though S51's is currently unobtainable)

I can also verify that HA Nupin is 'officially' released, but the only way to currently obtain one is from someone who already has it, as Duplicat has no HA at the time of writing for some reason (otherwise, no HAs would be unobtainable). Due to a set of unique circumstances, a breeder came into possession of a HA Gellin with Cody's trainer ID and got permission to trade its offspring to the community from the bigwigs, so nobody should get nailed for simply getting a HA Nupin via WT.
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#3
(02-17-2020, 07:55 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Yup, breeding using at least one parent with an inherited HA trait results in the possibility of an offspring with a HA trait in Uranium, regardless of which parent has the trait (or what species they are).  Duplicat, unfortunately, cannot breed HAs itself at the time of writing due to not having any kind of HA at all, unlike other pokemon like Tonemy and S51 (which both only have HAs when fully evolved, though S51's is currently unobtainable)

I can also verify that HA Nupin is 'officially' released, but the only way to currently obtain one is from someone who already has it, as Duplicat has no HA at the time of writing for some reason (otherwise, no HAs would be unobtainable).  Due to a set of unique circumstances, a breeder came into possession of a HA Gellin with Cody's trainer ID and got permission to trade its offspring to the community from the bigwigs, so nobody should get nailed for simply getting a HA Nupin via WT.
Oh yeah! I completely forgot that Tonemy didn't have an HA until evolving! That goes a long way towards explaining how a lineage without an HA could inherit the ability to pass on an HA even when none of them have one.

Though it still seems bizarre that that's the case, yet shiny mons without HAs caught with the Pokeradar aren't classified as having HAs to breed with... Unless... Come to think of it, I've only tested it with Duplicat. Maybe it's possible to catch a shiny mon with the pokeradar that doesn't have an HA like Mareep and have it work? Or maybe it really is only possible to get a mon capable of breeding HAs despite neither it nor its evolutions having one via breeding...

It's not like it's useful tactically or anything, but it is curious.
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#4
(02-17-2020, 04:36 PM)TheTainted_Wisdom Wrote: Oh yeah! I completely forgot that Tonemy didn't have an HA until evolving! That goes a long way towards explaining how a lineage without an HA could inherit the ability to pass on an HA even when none of them have one.

Though it still seems bizarre that that's the case, yet shiny mons without HAs caught with the Pokeradar aren't classified as having HAs to breed with... Unless... Come to think of it, I've only tested it with Duplicat. Maybe it's possible to catch a shiny mon with the pokeradar that doesn't have an HA like Mareep and have it work? Or maybe it really is only possible to get a mon capable of breeding HAs despite neither it nor its evolutions having one via breeding...

It's not like it's useful tactically or anything, but it is curious.

I'm not sure about Mareep, since I haven't tested that one either (Mareep usually does have a HA in the canon games, though I think the idea behind not giving it a HA in this fan game was so Neopunk and Praseopunk were the only pokemon with Plus/Minus in Uranium).

As far as I'm aware, however, Duplicat is the only pokemon that can't pass a HA trait at all, and I'm not sure if it's intended or a bug.  If Mareep can't pass HAs either when you catch a shiny one via a Radar chain, it might be a bug, I guess?  From what I've heard, Duplicats Abilities aren't quite coded the same way as other pokemon's are, but I don't know if other pokemon with no HAs suffer from the same thing.

Obviously, that doesn't seem to be the case with the Tricwe you were breeding, though, which might indicate that the Duplicat not being able to pass HAs thing might be intended. 

This might need more testing (or dev confirmation), but testing it would take a lot of time, so nobody's done that yet to my knowledge.  *shrug*
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#5
From what I recall of this -- which has been discussed in the Breeders Guild Discord server before -- this can occur if a Pokemon with no HA is bred with a male Pokemon that does have a HA. A male HA Pokemon has a 20% chance of passing a HA down to the offspring (which is how you're able to breed HA starters / Luxi / etc), but in the case of a mon without a HA, obviously when that 20% is rolled, there's no HA to give it so it gets its regular ability instead. But the game still treats the mon coding-wise as having a HA when it comes to breeding, so a male offspring could be "HA" without actually being HA, causing unexpected HA's to show up if you breed it with another mon.

Obviously this isn't a common occurrence -- you have a 20% shot of winding up with one of these "secret" HA mons (although the odds can go up if you get a coded female offspring and swap it in), and then a 20% chance from there if you use it to breed another mon that potentially can get a HA. But it is indeed possible, even if likely not entirely intentional from a coding standpoint, and has been observed in the past -- and yes, it only happens through breeding, not PokeRadar.

Duplicat won't on its own pass a HA. As @Dragonstrike said, the HA Nupins were more or less officially released as part of the last WTE event, although the only way to obtain it is through breeding from an offspring that already has it. It's not available in-game yet, but probably will be at some unknown point in the future.
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