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Competitive Guide: Nucleon
#21
(12-21-2016, 03:50 PM)PhantomUnderYourDesk Wrote: Not just a HA-Nucleon. I want a selfbreeded full Eevee-set with positive nature, HA and 5 IV.


You might want to bring your thing about Nucleon being either Uber or, well, “useless” as well as those ideas about fixing this ‘mon in general  to my Suggestions-concerning-competitive-play thread, and see what happens.

How about switching its normal ability with its hidden ability? Similar to Sylveon’s normal ability (Cute Charm) is a bit of useless with its Defense (not Sp.Defense, that stat is great!) in mind, and the HA (Pixilate) is the favoured one for good reasons. But before you can bring on this Fairy, you have to get one with the HA in the first place… that needs effort since you can’t just encounter HA-Eevees in the wild easily and so on -  and I bet not everyone is willing to take the effort, which would (maybe?) make it less prominently seen in battle.


Also….
Imagine Nucleon, with Atomizate, in a fixed Fallout. Probably nightmare fuel.


You know, I just might do that. Thanks for the suggestion, my OTP~!

As for switching its abilities, all it would do is make It more of a hassle to gets its OP form, and does not solve any of the problems it has with its HA. The only way an alt ability would work on Nucleon is that its gets some natural, special based Nuclear moves to work with, and that the ability does something about its crippling weakness. Otherwise, switching its HA with its NA would do absolutely nothing, sad to say...
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

Online ID: 000650
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#22
Uhm... I wanted to ask you a thing concerning Nucleon, since you, m...my OTP, wrote the guide... It may sound like a weird or relucant thing, but I would still like to bring it up.

My next breeding project shall be a full competitive ( = 5IV with imperfect stat on theone decresed by nature) positive-natured HA-Eeveelution-Set, and now I finally have the time and calmness to fulfill that old wish of mine. I've picked natures for all official Eevee-forms already and will do the same with possible movesets that work well with their HA from other guides ... except Nucleon.
Nucleon with its HA may be considered trash, but I still want to hatch + have it, with a non-random nature and a decent moveset. I want at least Gamma Ray on it, because it's one of its two natural Nuclear moves, and I like Gamma Ray as an irradiated move quite much, only surpassed by Radioacid (which it sadly doesn't learn).


"Nice, my dear, and why do tell me all this, what was the question again?" ... Thing is, I wanted to ask you for a good nature + moveset on Geiger-Sense-Nucleon. I'm quite clueless about that, and of course everyone goes for Atomizate-Nucleon and doesn't even waste one thought on its Hidden Ability (not blaming them for that though, since it's comprehensible).

It does not have to be right away - take your time to come up with an idea you (or maybe any other competitive player who may read this?) consider matching to the irradiated Eevee having its HA.
T...Thanks a lot... in addition... I do not want to turn to anyone else but to you and feel very uncomfortable about bringing this concern to the Breeder's Discord, because I fully trust that you will not bawl me out for why-the-hell I would want a good HA-Nucleon at all.
"Anything can be art. Anything can be self-expression. Now take your weapon and run with it" [Gerard Way]
--Windos is my OTP ❤---
`❤★`°・:*:・。[Image: fgHY4]。・:*:・゚’★❤`
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#23
(02-15-2017, 07:27 PM)PhantomUnderYourDesk Wrote: Uhm... I wanted to ask you a thing concerning Nucleon, since you, m...my OTP, wrote the guide... It may sound like a weird or relucant thing, but I would still like to bring it up.

My next breeding project shall be a full competitive ( = 5IV with imperfect stat on theone decresed by nature) positive-natured HA-Eeveelution-Set, and now I finally have the time and calmness to fulfill that old wish of mine. I've picked natures for all official Eevee-forms already and will do the same with possible movesets that work well with their HA from other guides ... except Nucleon.
Nucleon with its HA may be considered trash, but I still want to hatch + have it, with a non-random nature and a decent moveset. I want at least Gamma Ray on it, because it's one of its two natural Nuclear moves, and I like Gamma Ray as an irradiated move quite much, only surpassed by Radioacid (which it sadly doesn't learn).


"Nice, my dear, and why do tell me all this, what was the question again?" ... Thing is, I wanted to ask you for a good nature + moveset on Geiger-Sense-Nucleon. I'm quite clueless about that, and of course everyone goes for Atomizate-Nucleon and doesn't even waste one thought on its Hidden Ability (not blaming them for that though, since it's comprehensible).

It does not have to be right away - take your time to come up with an idea you (or maybe any other competitive player who may read this?) consider matching to the irradiated Eevee having its HA.
T...Thanks a lot... in addition... I do not want to turn to anyone else but to you and feel very uncomfortable about bringing this concern to the Breeder's Discord, because I fully trust that you will not bawl me out for why-the-hell I would want a good HA-Nucleon at all.

My, my, you respect my opinion that much? Well, I can't disappoint you now! Here a set for HA Nucleon, just for you!

What's that Ticking Noise (HA Nucleon)

Gamma Ray

Hidden Power (Fire)

Shadow Ball/Half Life

Yawn/Wish

Ability: Geiger Sense

Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry/Choice Scarf

Nature: Modest/Timid

EV's: 252 SPD, 252 S.DEF, 4 S.ATK

I can't imagine anyone wanting to use HA Nucleon, when it regular ability is so overpowering, but it does has a niche as  premier Anti Nuclearmon counter. Nucleon job is rather simple here: Switch into a Nuclear 'mon attack, eat it, and then retaliate with a Boosted Hidden Power Fire or Shadow Ball. Afterwards, it can either switch out and wait for the next assault, or try and sweep with the boost you received. If it stays in, it has +1 Gamma Ray to lay into everything in its path, and HP Fire to take out Steel types and other Nuclear Pokémon. Shadow Ball is a stronger option against Nuclears, or it can run Half Life to take a bite out of Bulky Pokémon's HP. The last move depends on what you want Nucleon to accomplish when a tough target is sent out. Yawn can be use to either force switches, giving your team more momentum to work with, or stay if and try to KO the Nucleon, leaving itself open in more ways than one. Wish can be used instead if you want Nucleon to be able to heal a teammate when it has to switch out, is about to bite it and needs a dying action, or have a way to substain itself if it somehow survives a hit. The item choice depends on what you are prioritizing. Life Orb helps the glowing fox to take out threats that much faster, at the cost of sustainability, while Lum Berry is there to deal with other threats trying to debilitate them. Choice Scarf is there if you want to speed tie other Nucleons, or if you just want to be as fast as possible. If you are going that route, a Timid Nature would be better suited for it, but otherwise, HA Nucleon is better off without a Choice Item. That lose of flexibility in battle really hurts its chance of sweeping a team or taking out Nucmons, so keep that in mind!

Hope this helps you, my most wonderful darling~
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

Online ID: 000650
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#24
Quick question. You wouldn't mind some constructive criticism for this guide, would you?
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#25
Nope! For the matter of fact, I encourage criticism, since it makes me aware of faults/mistakes I made in the guide, and motivates me to add new ideas to them! My Beliaddon guide would not have been as good if their were not anyone to add their input to the proceedings~
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

Online ID: 000650
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#26
Oh my, you wrote a whole set customized especially for me, although I just asked for a nature and four moves? Thaaaanks so much! You must have gone crazy meanwhile

Ah, too bad I don't engage in Hidden Power breeding, and don't plan to do so neither. Nevermind, it will keep the HP of the type it has then (that is, Fairy – because it's ... a timid one with... 6IV...), or will maybe replace it with Shadow Ball while having Half Life as the third move. It's quite much for collective reasons anyway, so I guess it should not matter that much, right...? Thanks again!

Oh hey, wait a moment - what are these 252 EV in Special Defence for? Is there some special reason for those? I thought that dear irradiated foxy is a fragile one...


(I would give you a +1 reputation for that, but I see you already collected enough of those. So, have this instead~ *hesitantly moves closer to you, then closes eyes to give you a faint kiss directly on the lips … breaks it a few moments later and smiles slightly and bashfully*)
"Anything can be art. Anything can be self-expression. Now take your weapon and run with it" [Gerard Way]
--Windos is my OTP ❤---
`❤★`°・:*:・。[Image: fgHY4]。・:*:・゚’★❤`
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#27
(03-01-2017, 11:56 AM)PhantomUnderYourDesk Wrote: Oh my, you wrote a whole set customized especially for me, although I just asked for a nature and four moves? Thaaaanks so much! You must have gone crazy meanwhile

Ah, too bad I don't engage in Hidden Power breeding, and don't plan to do so neither. Nevermind, it will keep the HP of the type it has then (that is, Fairy – because it's ... a timid one with... 6IV...), or will maybe replace it with Shadow Ball while having Half Life as the third move. It's quite much for collective reasons anyway, so I guess it should not matter that much, right...? Thanks again!

Oh hey, wait a moment - what are these 252 EV in Special Defence for? Is there some special reason for those? I thought that dear irradiated foxy is a fragile one...


(I would give you a +1 reputation for that, but I see you already collected enough of those. So, have this instead~ *hesitantly moves closer to you, then closes eyes to give you a faint kiss directly on the lips … breaks it a few moments later and smiles slightly and bashfully*)

*Is frankly surprise, before a stupid smile crosses their face* Oh my, are you not ever getting bolder and bolder? While rep is nice, I'll take a kiss from you any day *Stare at them with a look that is absolutely smoldering* , my love.

Flirting aside, the reason Nucleon has 252 EV in S. Def is that its going to be switching into Nuclear types, and most Nuc Moves are S. Atk, so be able to tank a hit and hit back even harder is a valuble trait to have indeed! Its also good to have in the event it gets caught out by another S.Attacker, as while it has a slim chance of surviving, it better than none at all. Using HA-Nucleon, however absurd the concept is, requires going a little out of its usual comfort zone if its going to stand a chance doing its job.
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

Online ID: 000650
Reply
#28
Stop staring at me like this, because I don't know what may happen next~

Ah well, makes sense then about those EV in Special Defence. Guess I'll go and kill off those 98 in Special Attack it got during the evolution progress, and deal out those 4 at the end then. There, little Nucleon - come over and have some dinner! *places a bunch of Hondew Berries in front of it*
Thanks again !
"Anything can be art. Anything can be self-expression. Now take your weapon and run with it" [Gerard Way]
--Windos is my OTP ❤---
`❤★`°・:*:・。[Image: fgHY4]。・:*:・゚’★❤`
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#29
No problem, my OTP! While it was not your intension, you ended up motivating me to create a set for HA Nucleon, something I can almost grantee no-one else has done. Thank you, Phantom.

As for the set itself... well, its completely outclassed by not only regular Nucleon (Destroyer of Teams), but other Nuclear Pokémon (N-Gellen and MN-Baariette are good examples). Given the plain Nucleon is either going to get a ban or eat a nerf in the future, though, and the HA Nucleon set might be the only thing it can legally run in the future-possible meta. Wonder what that would do to its viability (besides tanking it into the mantle, obviously)?
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

Online ID: 000650
Reply
#30
I guess I should probably weigh in here, shouldn't I?

So. Synchronoise. It's a 120-power psychic move that only hurts pokemon that share a type with the user. Eevees can learn it as an egg move, so long as it at some point came from a male parent Ratsy/Raffiti who has Sketched it from an Astronite (or an eevee that's already acquired the move that way in the past). It's tricky to get, especially with Sketch working as it currently does, but it's not impossible.

That said, I'm not actually sure what, if anything, having this available does for Nucleon. It's an important coverage option to consider (especially on Expert Belt and other non-choiced sets) for countering other Nuclears, but it also has some limitations. Firstly, as a psychic move it's still not going to hit anything that's Nuclear/Dark (I don't know if Baariette or Tanscure are going to be worth concerning ourselves with, but I certainly can't completely rule them out). Secondly, if the opponent is expecting it they can just switch out and force you to waste your turn, since so many things are immune to it; that will lose you a lot of momentum. Still, when the other options for hitting other nuclears are Hidden Power (60), and Shadow Ball (80), it looks very attractive despite those caveats.

I'm also wondering how Hidden Power factors into this discussion. I think Fighting ends up being the best choice, to attempt to cover the steel weakness (really, just Gararewl; doesn't the maths end up that a neutral Hyper Voice is still as strong or stronger than a 2x Hidden Power, after taking Atomizate and STAB into account? though I'm not 100% sure whether this would change with Expert Belt, I don't know where that fits into the calculation), and to hit 4x against the Nuclear/Dark mons. Which leaves the question of whether we still want Shadow Ball for anything, as I think the only thing it's still better at hitting is S51-A. And unfortunately this set still has no way of dealing with Soundproof Paraboom (well, the normal form; nuclear form will die to Synchronoise since, despite having noise in the name, it apparently doesn't count as a sound move), since its Normal typing makes it immune to Shadow Ball and its Psychic typing makes it resist HP Fighting. I found myself wondering if it would be worth running something like Swift, just to be able to hit Paraboom with something if it becomes common enough to expect. Or maybe it's still worth using the fourth move slot on Quick Attack despite Nucleon's horrid physical attack stat.

Phantom raised an interesting point in the first thread I mentioned this: that Synchronoise is really good on Geiger Sense Nucleon, since that's already pretty much specialising in taking out other Nuclears and Synchronoise is how it's going to hit them the hardest. That said... I find myself wondering, now, if it'd be worth running Baton Pass on such a set too. Switch in GS!Nucleon against a nuclear type, get the boost and take it down with Synchronoise, then Baton Pass the boost to another team member and try to sweep from there. (Hey, you've got to do something with the boost Geiger Sense gives you if you're going to forego Atomizate!) That said, I think I might've read something about Baton Pass not working correctly in current version, which might leave this in theoryland for now...
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