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[Guide] Competitive Analysis: Oblivicorn
#11
Taking a quick look at barn's viability chart, I can already come up with some rough tiering charts right now:

Ubers: Basically Nuclears, S Rank mons, and some of the more powerful A + Rankers reside here, though lower tiers can of course play here (at their own risk, but still!). This is where you want fast and furious fighting, or just want to use the best Pokémon possible.

OU: A+ and A- can battle area, where their are strong Pokémon that have counters available within or below those letter grades. This is where there is a 'balance' of raw strength and refined strategy, without worrying about whether or not the Ubers will come in an just be the ruinous Pokémon that they are.

UU: B+ and lower play here, and the higher ranks have to stick on their own turf. Essentially, this is the grounds were these Pokémon will shine, as they don't have to play second fiddle to all the more powerful beast that roam the upper strata!

Little Cup: I have no idea what to do with this, as I never did much research on this tier. I stick mostly to OU and UU, so this is just out of my purview!

If I were a better breeder, I might just start a UU Torney myself, in order to see what develops from this, or just have a Tourny that is OU exclusive. What do you think?
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

Online ID: 000650
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#12
(06-13-2017, 03:45 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Taking a quick look at barn's viability chart, I can already come up with some rough tiering charts right now:

Ubers: Basically Nuclears, S Rank mons, and some of the more powerful A + Rankers reside here, though lower tiers can of course play here (at their own risk, but still!). This is where you want fast and furious fighting, or just want to use the best Pokémon possible.

OU: A+ and A- can battle area, where their are strong Pokémon that have counters available within or below those letter grades. This is where there is a 'balance' of raw strength and refined strategy, without worrying about whether or not the Ubers will come in an just be the ruinous Pokémon that they are.

UU: B+ and lower play here, and the higher ranks have to stick on their own turf. Essentially, this is the grounds were these Pokémon will shine, as they don't have to play second fiddle to all the more powerful beast that roam the upper strata!

Little Cup: I have no idea what to do with this, as I never did much research on this tier. I stick mostly to OU and UU, so this is just out of my purview!

If I were a better breeder, I might just start a UU Torney myself, in order to see what develops from this, or just have a Tourny that is OU exclusive. What do you think?

OU and UU Tourneys are definitely the next step I think, and you've pretty much summarized my general thoughts on the preliminary tiering's Smogon tier equivalents.

I've also got the Little Cup eligibility list done, though some more work needs to be done to figure out sets for almost all of those pokemon. I'm not super familiar with LC either, unfortunately, so that might take some time :/ The good news is that Smogon has a decent introduction to the metagame's intricacies, which I linked in my post on Uranium's LC viable mons.

Thinking about it, a LC Tourney before we have any guides done could be interesting to do...though it could be confusing for anyone not familiar with the differences the tier has from standard play.
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#13
I just remember something that could be a problem: Chainite. One of its abilities, Shadow Tag, would be banned by normal Smogen agenda, due to its very nature preventing counter play. However, it is arguably its most useful ability as well, given that Cursed Body is less than useful due to its sub par bulk hindering it from taking too many hits. Thoughts on what to do with this monster?
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

Online ID: 000650
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#14
(06-13-2017, 06:48 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: I just remember something that could be a problem: Chainite. One of its abilities, Shadow Tag, would be banned by normal Smogen agenda, due to its very nature preventing counter play. However, it is arguably its most useful ability as well, given that Cursed Body is less than useful due to its sub par bulk hindering it from taking too many hits. Thoughts on what to do with this monster?

The thing to consider with that is does Chainite pose enough of a threat with Shadow Tag to guarantee a win condition?  That's why Shadow Tag Gothitelle was banned from everything except Ubers.  It would trap something that couldn't touch it, and then set up Calm Minds to its heart's desire, Rest whenever needed, and sweep.  There wasn't a reasonable answer to that outside of the ultra powerful physical attackers residing in the highest tier of play.

If Chainite can reliably do something similar with its own Shadow Tag sets, it's a problem.  If not, it's a bit more like the usual Arena Trap pokemon.

A Chainite with a set similar to Gothitelle's would likely be Curse (it's only dual boosting move), Rest, Shadow Sneak (because of the speed drops), and Drain Punch (for that perfect type coverage and extra recovery).  That might be a bit too much for the game, but it depends on how well special attackers can dent the ghost after a couple of curses.

Such a set could still have a niche in Ubers play if it's banned from the lower tiers, though, since Gothitelle found one there with Shadow Tag, so there's that to still consider.  And with Nucleon around (and other powerful special attackers, but mainly Nucleon. Urayne and N-Jerbolta can do the same thing too, technically), Chainite can't really afford to try setting up until the radioactive eevee is dead, so there's likely not as many issues with Shadow Tag Chainite in the highest tiers.
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#15
(06-13-2017, 07:57 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote:
(06-13-2017, 06:48 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: I just remember something that could be a problem: Chainite. One of its abilities, Shadow Tag, would be banned by normal Smogen agenda, due to its very nature preventing counter play. However, it is arguably its most useful ability as well, given that Cursed Body is less than useful due to its sub par bulk hindering it from taking too many hits. Thoughts on what to do with this monster?

The thing to consider with that is does Chainite pose enough of a threat with Shadow Tag to guarantee a win condition?  That's why Shadow Tag Gothitelle was banned from everything except Ubers.  It would trap something that couldn't touch it, and then set up Calm Minds to its heart's desire, Rest whenever needed, and sweep.  There wasn't a reasonable answer to that outside of the ultra powerful physical attackers residing in the highest tier of play.

If Chainite can reliably do something similar with its own Shadow Tag sets, it's a problem.  If not, it's a bit more like the usual Arena Trap pokemon.

A Chainite with a set similar to Gothitelle's would likely be Curse (it's only dual boosting move), Rest, Shadow Sneak (because of the speed drops), and Drain Punch (for that perfect type coverage and extra recovery).  That might be a bit too much for the game, but it depends on how well special attackers can dent the ghost after a couple of curses.

Such a set could still have a niche in Ubers play if it's banned from the lower tiers, though, since Gothitelle found one there with Shadow Tag, so there's that to still consider.  And with Nucleon around (and other powerful special attackers, but mainly Nucleon.  Urayne and N-Jerbolta can do the same thing too, technically), Chainite can't really afford to try setting up until the radioactive eevee is dead, so there's likely not as many issues with Shadow Tag Chainite in the highest tiers.

Chainite is Dark/Ghost, though, so Curse would act as a HP drain move, not a boosting one. It seems the creators made a deliberate effort in excluding moves that boosted more than one stat on the dark monster, so it only gets SD, Nasty Plot, and Iron Defense to work with. Which means that Shadow Tag is most likely good for it trapping and eliminating key targets, or setting up a boost and going to town with the rest of its coverage. Granted, it could always cram Iron Defense, SD and Rest on it, then just work with one attack to try and KO them all, so there is that...

Its typing, high HP, decent stats, and an actual movepool basically makes it a better Wobbofett. It doesn't get Counter, Mirror Coat or Encore, but it has more than enough Atk and coverage to spell the doom of just about everything if its built right. It would be a real nightmare with status moves as well, since it could switch in and trap Wall/Atks, and hit them with Either Burn, Toxic, or Paralysis, and they could do nothing but try and nail it down before it procs those moves. If it isn't Ubers worthy, its certainly a threat to always account for!
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

Online ID: 000650
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#16
(06-13-2017, 08:31 PM)Lord Windos Wrote:
(06-13-2017, 07:57 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote:
(06-13-2017, 06:48 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: I just remember something that could be a problem: Chainite. One of its abilities, Shadow Tag, would be banned by normal Smogen agenda, due to its very nature preventing counter play. However, it is arguably its most useful ability as well, given that Cursed Body is less than useful due to its sub par bulk hindering it from taking too many hits. Thoughts on what to do with this monster?

The thing to consider with that is does Chainite pose enough of a threat with Shadow Tag to guarantee a win condition?  That's why Shadow Tag Gothitelle was banned from everything except Ubers.  It would trap something that couldn't touch it, and then set up Calm Minds to its heart's desire, Rest whenever needed, and sweep.  There wasn't a reasonable answer to that outside of the ultra powerful physical attackers residing in the highest tier of play.

If Chainite can reliably do something similar with its own Shadow Tag sets, it's a problem.  If not, it's a bit more like the usual Arena Trap pokemon.

A Chainite with a set similar to Gothitelle's would likely be Curse (it's only dual boosting move), Rest, Shadow Sneak (because of the speed drops), and Drain Punch (for that perfect type coverage and extra recovery).  That might be a bit too much for the game, but it depends on how well special attackers can dent the ghost after a couple of curses.

Such a set could still have a niche in Ubers play if it's banned from the lower tiers, though, since Gothitelle found one there with Shadow Tag, so there's that to still consider.  And with Nucleon around (and other powerful special attackers, but mainly Nucleon.  Urayne and N-Jerbolta can do the same thing too, technically), Chainite can't really afford to try setting up until the radioactive eevee is dead, so there's likely not as many issues with Shadow Tag Chainite in the highest tiers.

Chainite is Dark/Ghost, though, so Curse would act as a HP drain move, not a boosting one. It seems the creators made a deliberate effort in excluding moves that boosted more than one stat on the dark monster, so it only gets SD, Nasty Plot, and Iron Defense to work with. Which means that Shadow Tag is most likely good for it trapping and eliminating key targets, or setting up a boost and going to town with the rest of its coverage. Granted, it could always cram Iron Defense, SD and Rest on it, then just work with one attack to try and KO them all, so there is that...

Its typing, high HP, decent stats, and an actual movepool basically makes it a better Wobbofett. It doesn't get Counter, Mirror Coat or Encore, but it has more than enough Atk and coverage to spell the doom of just about everything if its built right. It would be a real nightmare with status moves as well, since it could switch in and trap Wall/Atks, and hit them with Either Burn, Toxic, or Paralysis, and they could do nothing but try and nail it down before it procs those moves. If it isn't Ubers worthy, its certainly a threat to always account for!

You're right.  I totally forgot about that effect of curse because it's almost never used (though it's pretty deadly with Shadow Tag assuming you can take a hit).  Well, dark and ghost both have some really good neutral coverage as long as you can eliminate enemy dark and fairy types, so that kind of set could work.  It would take a little setup, but it could work.  And it would be very dangerous if it did.

Whether Shadow Tag Chainite is Ubers worthy or not is still probably up for discussion, I feel.  For now, it can probably stay in Uranium's equivalent of OU.  There's pokemon that cause more pressing problems than it does.
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#17
Agreed. Nucleon, Inflagetah, Lathan and all the other big shots need to be accounted for, before anything else is done about this ghostly menace.
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

Heart Phantom is my OTP~ Heart

Online ID: 000650
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