+- Pokemon Uranium (https://pokemonuranium.co/forum)
+-- Forum: Pokemon Uranium (https://pokemonuranium.co/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Competitive Discussion (https://pokemonuranium.co/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Analysis Compendium and Tiering Plans (/showthread.php?tid=112)
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - Lord Windos - 09-30-2016
(09-30-2016, 07:13 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote:(09-30-2016, 07:04 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: You know what? I say we all come up for movesets for Ratfitti, write description on what they do, then debate their usefulness. When we get enough together, we can make a guide based on those discussions!
I think that sounds like a great idea for a pokemon with smeargle level versatility but fewer drawbacks.
Any thoughts on what might make a good moveset for it, then? Or not even good, but something that can carve a new nieche into the meta, or is completely unexpected.
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - Dragonstrike - 09-30-2016
(09-30-2016, 08:44 PM)Lord Windos Wrote:So let's see what we have so far...smash n' sweep, hazard set, hazard clear, baton passer, anti-lead, field group egg move specialist...that might actually be the general extent of its abilities, actually. Its stats are better than Smeargle's, but none of them are spectacular. It won't be sweeping without those stat boosts, and it won't tank much without them either. Unless I'm missing something that a pokemon with a stat total of 465 can do?(09-30-2016, 07:13 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote:(09-30-2016, 07:04 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: You know what? I say we all come up for movesets for Ratfitti, write description on what they do, then debate their usefulness. When we get enough together, we can make a guide based on those discussions!
I think that sounds like a great idea for a pokemon with smeargle level versatility but fewer drawbacks.
Any thoughts on what might make a good moveset for it, then? Or not even good, but something that can carve a new nieche into the meta, or is completely unexpected.
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - Cataclyptic - 09-30-2016
Challenge accepted, Windos. This is the most OP set I could think of since Belly Drum is unavailable.
Raffiti @ Life Orb/ White Herb
Hasty, 228 Spe, 252 Spa, 24 At
- Expunge
- Fire Blast
- Extremespeed
- Shell Smash
Did some calcs and this thing can basically 2HKO the entire metagame at this rate.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raffiti Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanthan: 307-361 (72.4 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Expunge will do similar damage to one typed pokemon. If you have a dual typed Pokemon? Then its a guaranteed OHKO. The EV's, by the way, guarantee Raffiti hits 300 speed before using Shell smash, which is important because after shell smash it will hit 600 speed, and be unable to be outsped by anything except for choice scarf Inflagetah. The rest is dumped into special attack and attack.
That being said... After using shell smash, it becomes very weak to all priority, especially Mach Punch users. For instance, VS garlikid:
+2 42 Atk Life Orb Raffiti Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garlikid: 149-177 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Garlikid Mach Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0- Def Raffiti: 351-416 (120.6 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Maybe replace Extremespeed with Flame Impact? Of course, Navighast could still oneshot Raffiti. If Raffiti runs a White Herb then maybe it could tank hits better, but would lose 1.3x power.
This thing MIGHT not be as overpowered as we thought. I say this because there are some things that can counter it via priority mach punch, and of course it has to set up Shell Smash in order to do this job- meaning its vulnerable during that turn.
Someone suggested a Quick Feet, Toxic Orb, Expunge set which may work better but...
252 SpA Raffiti Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanthan: 118-140 (27.8 - 33%) -- 84.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
... it loses a lot of power without the life orb. Anyway, there's my set and data for Raffiti. We'll see what happens.
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - Lord Windos - 09-30-2016
(09-30-2016, 10:06 PM)Cataclyptic Wrote: Challenge accepted, Windos. This is the most OP set I could think of since Belly Drum is unavailable.
Raffiti @ Life Orb/ White Herb
Hasty, 228 Spe, 252 Spa, 24 At
- Expunge
- Fire Blast
- Extremespeed
- Shell Smash
Did some calcs and this thing can basically 2HKO the entire metagame at this rate.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raffiti Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanthan: 307-361 (72.4 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Expunge will do similar damage to one typed pokemon. If you have a dual typed Pokemon? Then its a guaranteed OHKO. The EV's, by the way, guarantee Raffiti hits 300 speed before using Shell smash, which is important because after shell smash it will hit 600 speed, and be unable to be outsped by anything except for choice scarf Inflagetah. The rest is dumped into special attack and attack.
That being said... After using shell smash, it becomes very weak to all priority, especially Mach Punch users. For instance, VS garlikid:
+2 42 Atk Life Orb Raffiti Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garlikid: 149-177 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Garlikid Mach Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0- Def Raffiti: 351-416 (120.6 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Maybe replace Extremespeed with Flame Impact? Of course, Navighast could still oneshot Raffiti. If Raffiti runs a White Herb then maybe it could tank hits better, but would lose 1.3x power.
This thing MIGHT not be as overpowered as we thought. I say this because there are some things that can counter it via priority mach punch, and of course it has to set up Shell Smash in order to do this job- meaning its vulnerable during that turn.
Someone suggested a Quick Feet, Toxic Orb, Expunge set which may work better but...
252 SpA Raffiti Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanthan: 118-140 (27.8 - 33%) -- 84.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
... it loses a lot of power without the life orb. Anyway, there's my set and data for Raffiti. We'll see what happens.
Nice idea~ I wonder why you chose not to use Sucker Punch, though. It has priority plus STAB, so...
The idea behind a Toxic/Flame Orb set up is that, after using Protect for a turn, you get a free speed boost, and prevent others from procing status on you. Flame Orb is good if your running only Expunge, Shell Smash, Protect, and Whatever (I'd say Trick, just to screw the enemy over, but Taunt works too., but Toxic Orb works better with Atomic Punch and Sucker Punch/Any Priority Move.
I am kinda wondering how it can get a Shell Smash off, though, and survive without a Focus Sash, though. Any ideas on that front?
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - poweroftibarn - 09-30-2016
(09-30-2016, 10:06 PM)Cataclyptic Wrote: Challenge accepted, Windos. This is the most OP set I could think of since Belly Drum is unavailable.
Raffiti @ Life Orb/ White Herb
Hasty, 228 Spe, 252 Spa, 24 At
- Expunge
- Fire Blast
- Extremespeed
- Shell Smash
Did some calcs and this thing can basically 2HKO the entire metagame at this rate.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raffiti Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanthan: 307-361 (72.4 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Expunge will do similar damage to one typed pokemon. If you have a dual typed Pokemon? Then its a guaranteed OHKO. The EV's, by the way, guarantee Raffiti hits 300 speed before using Shell smash, which is important because after shell smash it will hit 600 speed, and be unable to be outsped by anything except for choice scarf Inflagetah. The rest is dumped into special attack and attack.
That being said... After using shell smash, it becomes very weak to all priority, especially Mach Punch users. For instance, VS garlikid:
+2 42 Atk Life Orb Raffiti Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garlikid: 149-177 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Garlikid Mach Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0- Def Raffiti: 351-416 (120.6 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Maybe replace Extremespeed with Flame Impact? Of course, Navighast could still oneshot Raffiti. If Raffiti runs a White Herb then maybe it could tank hits better, but would lose 1.3x power.
This thing MIGHT not be as overpowered as we thought. I say this because there are some things that can counter it via priority mach punch, and of course it has to set up Shell Smash in order to do this job- meaning its vulnerable during that turn.
Someone suggested a Quick Feet, Toxic Orb, Expunge set which may work better but...
252 SpA Raffiti Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanthan: 118-140 (27.8 - 33%) -- 84.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
... it loses a lot of power without the life orb. Anyway, there's my set and data for Raffiti. We'll see what happens.
I think I would rather run Sucker Punch on Raffiti instead of Espeed since STAB and all. And while the Shell Smash Expunge set may not be as game breakingly broken as say, Nucleon, there is no denying it's power. But it isn't just that set alone that makes Raffiti broken, it's the sheer versatility that comes with being to learn literally every move that makes it broken. How does one come up with an answer for something that can potentially be anything? It's impossible to do so, or not at least until one has figured out what the opposing Raffiti is running. And by the time that has happened, chances are, one of your mons are dead, or it has spread hazards throughout your side of the field, or maybe it just Baton Passed a bunch of boosts onto a M-Syrentide or a Contrary Chimaconda. Either way, it is nearly to deal with Raffiti before Raffiti has fulfilled it's purpose due to its verstility, which in my opinion is why it is broken, not due to the power of the individual Shell Smash set (although that is where a large fraction of Raffiti's power comes from).
(09-30-2016, 10:17 PM)Lord Windos Wrote:Simple: use Spore when it is released. Raffiti has 306 max speed, allowing it to speed pretty much anything that is uninvested. After putting something to bed, it is practically guaranteed a round of Shell Smash setup.(09-30-2016, 10:06 PM)Cataclyptic Wrote: Challenge accepted, Windos. This is the most OP set I could think of since Belly Drum is unavailable.
Raffiti @ Life Orb/ White Herb
Hasty, 228 Spe, 252 Spa, 24 At
- Expunge
- Fire Blast
- Extremespeed
- Shell Smash
Did some calcs and this thing can basically 2HKO the entire metagame at this rate.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raffiti Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanthan: 307-361 (72.4 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Expunge will do similar damage to one typed pokemon. If you have a dual typed Pokemon? Then its a guaranteed OHKO. The EV's, by the way, guarantee Raffiti hits 300 speed before using Shell smash, which is important because after shell smash it will hit 600 speed, and be unable to be outsped by anything except for choice scarf Inflagetah. The rest is dumped into special attack and attack.
That being said... After using shell smash, it becomes very weak to all priority, especially Mach Punch users. For instance, VS garlikid:
+2 42 Atk Life Orb Raffiti Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garlikid: 149-177 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Garlikid Mach Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0- Def Raffiti: 351-416 (120.6 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Maybe replace Extremespeed with Flame Impact? Of course, Navighast could still oneshot Raffiti. If Raffiti runs a White Herb then maybe it could tank hits better, but would lose 1.3x power.
This thing MIGHT not be as overpowered as we thought. I say this because there are some things that can counter it via priority mach punch, and of course it has to set up Shell Smash in order to do this job- meaning its vulnerable during that turn.
Someone suggested a Quick Feet, Toxic Orb, Expunge set which may work better but...
252 SpA Raffiti Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanthan: 118-140 (27.8 - 33%) -- 84.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
... it loses a lot of power without the life orb. Anyway, there's my set and data for Raffiti. We'll see what happens.
Nice idea~ I wonder why you chose not to use Sucker Punch, though. It has priority plus STAB, so...
The idea behind a Toxic/Flame Orb set up is that, after using Protect for a turn, you get a free speed boost, and prevent others from procing status on you. Flame Orb is good if your running only Expunge, Shell Smash, Protect, and Whatever (I'd say Trick, just to screw the enemy over, but Taunt works too., but Toxic Orb works better with Atomic Punch and Sucker Punch/Any Priority Move.
I am kinda wondering how it can get a Shell Smash off, though, and survive without a Focus Sash, though. Any ideas on that front?
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - Lord Windos - 09-30-2016
Oh. That actually works better than Protect, since it can run a Burn Orb and then use Spore for Shell Smash. Or for Hazards. Or to remove hazard. Maybe even Baton Pass it to a friend in need. What learns spore in this game?
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - Iron - 09-30-2016
560,CORALBREAK,Coral Break,122,80,WATER,Special,95,15,15,00,0,abe,"The user creates waves in the water to attack the target. This attack does physical damage."
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - Cataclyptic - 09-30-2016
(09-30-2016, 05:03 PM)Iron Wrote: I have a copy of moves.txt.
561,ATOMICPUNCH,Atomic Punch,07,80,NUCLEAR,Physical,95,15,15,00,0,abe,"A Punch inbued with radiation, capable of infecting the enemy"
I don't have the part where special effects are defined.
For comparison here is Air Slash.
159,AIRSLASH,Air Slash,00F,75,FLYING,Special,95,15,30,00,0,bef,The user attacks with a blade of air that slices even the sky. It may also make the target flinch.
(09-30-2016, 11:47 PM)Iron Wrote: 560,CORALBREAK,Coral Break,122,80,WATER,Special,95,15,15,00,0,abe,"The user creates waves in the water to attack the target. This attack does physical damage."
Oh, I guess I was wrong, that doesn't make sense if its a physical move anyway. Maybe it's the 07 byte instead? If not then I have no more guesses.
(09-30-2016, 11:39 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Oh. That actually works better than Protect, since it can run a Burn Orb and then use Spore for Shell Smash. Or for Hazards. Or to remove hazard. Maybe even Baton Pass it to a friend in need. What learns spore in this game?
Nothing in the game learns Spore. We have Sleep Powder though.
"I think I would rather run Sucker Punch on Raffiti instead of Espeed since STAB and all. And while the Shell Smash Expunge set may not be as game breakingly broken as say, Nucleon, there is no denying it's power. But it isn't just that set alone that makes Raffiti broken, it's the sheer versatility that comes with being to learn literally every move that makes it broken. How does one come up with an answer for something that can potentially be anything? It's impossible to do so, or not at least until one has figured out what the opposing Raffiti is running. And by the time that has happened, chances are, one of your mons are dead, or it has spread hazards throughout your side of the field, or maybe it just Baton Passed a bunch of boosts onto a M-Syrentide or a Contrary Chimaconda. Either way, it is nearly to deal with Raffiti before Raffiti has fulfilled it's purpose due to its verstility, which in my opinion is why it is broken, not due to the power of the individual Shell Smash set (although that is where a large fraction of Raffiti's power comes from)."
I won't say you're wrong, but neither can I say you're right. In the real metagame, we have smeargle, who can do all that and remains in the lower tiers once baton passing got nerved. Same with Mew, though it's a bit better. They both have sets ad infinatum, but both are dealable. The real question is this: Raffiti has better stats than Smeargle, will that make more of a difference than in the ORAS meta?
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - Dragonstrike - 09-30-2016
(09-30-2016, 11:39 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Oh. That actually works better than Protect, since it can run a Burn Orb and then use Spore for Shell Smash. Or for Hazards. Or to remove hazard. Maybe even Baton Pass it to a friend in need. What learns spore in this game?
Ummmm...nothing...There's 0 mushroom pokemon in Uranium. Spore doesn't exist.
RE: "Some Opinions on Competitive Uranium" and more - poweroftibarn - 10-01-2016
The devs have plans to add all of the missing moves into the game, including Rapid Spin, Belly Drum, and yes, Spore. While Spore is currently unavailable, it won't stay that way for long.