+- Pokemon Uranium (https://pokemonuranium.co/forum)
+-- Forum: Pokemon Uranium (https://pokemonuranium.co/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Competitive Discussion (https://pokemonuranium.co/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: [Guide] Winotinger (/showthread.php?tid=303)
Winotinger - Pocket - 10-25-2016
Winotinger
![[Image: latest?cb=20160816043726]](http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/pokemon-uranium/images/b/be/127.png/revision/latest?cb=20160816043726)
Type: Fairy/Fighting
Ability: Magic Guard/Inner Focus
HP: 110
Attack: 80
Defense: 85
Special Attack: 105
Special Defense: 85
Speed: 85
Overview
Winotinger is an extremely versatile Pokemon. Stat wise, Winotinger is nothing to write home about, but its upsides certainly make up for it. Winotinger gets access to an impressive offensive movepool: Moonblast, Aura Sphere, Hidden Power Ground, Dark Pulse, Thunerbolt, and Psycho Cut are all viable coverage options. However, what's more impressive is it's supportive movepool that can be used, like Taunt, Toxic and Thunder Wave. These options give Winotinger a surprising amount of versatility. Despite this, Winotinger has its issues. It has major 4MSS. The big bunny needs to run both STABs and Calm Mind/Nasty Plot to make it more offensively threatening, but it wants access to coverage moves as well as supportive moves. Without coverage moves, Winotinger is completely shut down by Antarki and Chimaconda (who can sweep a team if you let it set up), and without supportive moves, it loses a part of it's niche. That being said, many teams could use a Winotinger as a sweeper or stallbreaker. It's definitely a Jackdeary of All Trades.
Defensive Calm Mind
Winotinger @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere
- Thunder Wave/Toxic/Taunt
This set allows Winotinger to act as a supportive Pokemon while also serving as the team's win condition. From the amount of options available for the fourth slot, you see how versatile Winotinger really is. Moonblast and Aura Sphere are both easy choices: They provide almost perfect neutral coverage, only missing out on Poison-types, Antarki and Chimaconda. Due to Winotinger's typing and ability, it can force out many defensive Pokemon to set up. This gives it ample oppurtunity to either set up or cripple the opposition. Thunder Wave is the best option, crippling many of it's checks like Chimaconda, and helps Winotinger support the team. Toxic is also an option, which allows Winotinger to cripple another bulky sweeper like Syrentide-M that may want to switch in on it. Finally, Taunt allows Winotinger to become a fantastic stallbreaker. Perfect for teams weak to stall.
Offensive Nasty Plot
Winotinger @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Naive Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power Ground
This set is designed for 1 thing and 1 thing only: Set up and sweep. Moonblast and Aura Sphere are there for a great STAB combination. They hit hard, they hit reliably, and they hit most things for neutral damage. Everything else in the game is hit for super effective damage by Hidden Power Ground. Nasty Plot is chosen for better damage, but if you feel like Calm Mind suits your playstyle better, go for it.
Choice
Winotinger @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power Ground
- Trick
Everyone expects Winotinger to use a boosting move, so utilizing Choice items is a fantastic way to catch your opponent off guard. There aren't many choices in this set, since the combination of Moonblast, Aura Sphere and Hidden Power Ground covers everything in the metagame. This great neutral coverage is why Choice items are so great on Winotinger. Trick is standard for Choice users: It's great for crippling opposing walls. The choice between Choice Specs and Choice Scarf is crucial. Choice Specs is great for teams who struggle with fat walls disrupting their sweepers, and Choice Scarf is great if you already have a wallbreaker. This set needs to be played carefully. Choice Specs is great if you want to force something you check out to another Pokemon (which if played right, can do some obscene damage). Choice Scarf needs to be played as a revenge killer or as a cleaner. These sets are less flexible than Defensive CM and Offensive Nasty Plot, but provide a much more specific use as well. Use them wisely.
Life Orb
Winotinger @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power Ground
- Thunderbolt/Dark Pulse
This set is played extremely similar to the Choice Specs set. However, this set trades power and sustainability for the ability to switch moves and the extra coverage against the remaining threats that Winotinger's standard moves don't. Moonblast, Aura Sphere, and Hidden Power Ground remain: They're the best special attacking moves for Winotinger. They provide the best coverage, no questions asked. Thunderbolt allows you to hit Gyarados and Pajay super effectively. Alternatively, if you want to run Winotinger as a lure, Dark Pulse can catch out incoming Antarki that want to come in on a Moonblast or Aura Sphere.
Baton Pass
Winotinger @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere/Substitute
- Nasty Plot/Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
Winotinger gets access to two awesome boosting options in Calm Mind and Nasty Plot, making it a decent Baton Passer. The purpose of the set is to set up boosts to pass to a teammate. If you want, you can add Substitute into the mix to make your sweeper of choice even harder to take down, but typically it's better to just run double STAB for the solid coverage it provides. The choice between Calm Mind and Nasty Plot is a tough one. If you don't want to take any risks against special attackers disrupting the sweep, it's best to take Calm Mind for the added resistance. However, if you're confident that your receiver is bulky enough to take a few hits, and especially if it receives a Substitute from the drunk Easter bunny itself, then go for it. It's really up to your judgement.
Team Options
Winotinger struggles to outspeed a large portion of offensive Pokemon that it can destroy with it's powerful attacks unless running a Choice Scarf. Chimaconda is a great partner, which can clean up a sweep and support Winotinger through its ability Petrify. Dunseraph is another great partner, who can support it through Thunder Wave, as well as wall the main threats to the set, Antarki and Chimaconda. Winotinger is commonly revenge killed by threats like S-51A-M, Tracton and Nucleon. Choice Scarf Laissure and Archilles-M kill these Pokemon cleanly. Winotinger loves access to Wish since it doesn't get access to reliable recovery, so teammates like Luxelong, Vaporeon and Sylveon are appreciated. Winotinger really hates Poison-types, and absolutely loves entry hazards. Both Laissure and Gliscor are perfect for this. Laissure can both run a defensively oriented set with Stealth Rock and Intimidate, run a wallbreaking/revenge killing set with Choice Band or Choice Scarf, or can sweep in it's own right with Swords Dance. Gliscor is another great option, laughing at the physical attacks aimed at Winotinger by the likes of Tracton and Inflagetah.
Counters
Without Hidden Power Ground, both Antarki and Chimaconda can come in on Winotinger and disrupt its sweep. Antarki is immune to Aura Sphere and resists Moonblast. It can set up Substitute or Calm Mind in it's face thanks to Prankster, and proceed to launch off powerful Fire Blasts and Shadow Balls. Alternatively, it might cripple Winotinger with Toxic or Thunder Wave. Chimaconda is capable of slowing down Winotinger due to Petrify, and resists both STABs, which is a major issue for the Calm Mind set. Alternatively, it can set up Special Attack boosts virtually for free with the Contrary set, which ruins the purpose of the Calm Mind set. There are also a myriad of Pokemon who can destroy Winotinger. Inflagateh can't hit it for super effective damage, but it's so powerful that Winotinger can't Thunder Wave or use Hidden Power Ground on it in time to kill it, even if using a Choice Scarf. Tracton can use Winotinger as bait for a cleanup late game as long as it doesn't have any Calm Mind boosts up. Brainoar is unfazed by Winotinger's coverage options, and makes quick work of it's teammates (namely Chimaconda).
RE: Winotinger - crulla - 10-26-2016
Hmm... not half bad, although:
- An All-out attacker set should be added, because every offensive Pokemon should have one.
- Thunderbolt and HP Rock/Ice should be slashed onto the offensive sets, or Gyarados/Pajay/Blubelrog etc. will wall the heck out of unboosted Winotinger and, in the case of Pajay, can Air Slash the Chimerical Pokemon to tiny bits.
- Counters: Try adding Flying-types and Brainoar. Flying-types are already mentioned, and Brainoars can survive a lot of attacks from Winotinger, and can Psychic the Chimerical.
- Trick Room? Winotingers are notably slow, so Trick Room can help with faster threats, although Miasmedics can Poison Jab Wino, but you can always switch...
Alas, that is but my humble opinions. Follow it if you think it's right, but OK if not.
RE: Winotinger - Reeveelution - 10-26-2016
(10-26-2016, 05:15 AM)crulla Wrote: Hmm... not half bad, although:
- An All-out attacker set should be added, because every offensive Pokemon should have one.
- Thunderbolt and HP Rock/Ice should be slashed onto the offensive sets, or Gyarados/Pajay/Blubelrog etc. will wall the heck out of unboosted Winotinger and, in the case of Pajay, can Air Slash the Chimerical Pokemon to tiny bits.
- Counters: Try adding Flying-types and Brainoar. Flying-types are already mentioned, and Brainoars can survive a lot of attacks from Winotinger, and can Psychic the Chimerical.
- Trick Room? Winotingers are notably slow, so Trick Room can help with faster threats, although Miasmedics can Poison Jab Wino, but you can always switch...
Alas, that is but my humble opinions. Follow it if you think it's right, but OK if not.
[1] Winotinger already has all-out attacker sets in this showcase. Just because it has Nasty Plot or Trick for another moveslot doesnt mean its not an all out attacker.
[2] HP ground is far superior than HP Rock/Ice. Though Thunderbolt and HP Ice does fill a certain niche. Might be worth point that out in the showcase I guess, but its not worth it imo. Of which, honestly only Gyarados is of a serious threat.... Pajay can't OHKO it without some sort of boost, and Blubelrog isn't exactly the best pokemon out there.
[3] Good idea to recommend a Psychic partner, but Brainoar isn't too great for synergy or a partner to Winotinger as if to Metalynx and Syrentide. Both dies to strong Physical attackers for an instance, and anything that hits hard and outspeeds both of them (which is plenty cause both also has medicore speed) is present. I'd rather recommend Pokemon like Laissure and Gliscor in this instance for an example.
[4] .....What? Trick Room? On a Pokemon with 85 base speed? No. Just.... no.
The general rule of Usable TR-ers are Pokemon with a MINIMUM base speed of 80 (which is already considered fast in most cases of Trick Room teams) and/or has access to Priority moves and/or is able to flexibly switch into danger and deal out chunks or damage and/or tanks well while dealing back damage and/or is super fast to work well with the team without TR and/or has access to strong priority moves; and they must fit at least a few of this niches to work well and synergies. Winotinger only fits one of this rule, which is that is able to decently freely switch into danger and deal out chunks of damage.
As we've discusses earlier meanwhile @Pocket, this showcase is simplistic but catches the charm of the Pokemon Showcased very well. Sure, more details can still be added, but once again im still a little too busy to properly critique and analyze it XD really good job on your showcase. I hope I can see more from you in the future.
RE: Winotinger - crulla - 10-26-2016
(10-26-2016, 06:09 AM)Reeveelution Wrote:Eh. I'm not the best competitive player out there, so... yeah. Still, what Reeves said is pretty valid.(10-26-2016, 05:15 AM)crulla Wrote: Hmm... not half bad, although:
- An All-out attacker set should be added, because every offensive Pokemon should have one.
- Thunderbolt and HP Rock/Ice should be slashed onto the offensive sets, or Gyarados/Pajay/Blubelrog etc. will wall the heck out of unboosted Winotinger and, in the case of Pajay, can Air Slash the Chimerical Pokemon to tiny bits.
- Counters: Try adding Flying-types and Brainoar. Flying-types are already mentioned, and Brainoars can survive a lot of attacks from Winotinger, and can Psychic the Chimerical.
- Trick Room? Winotingers are notably slow, so Trick Room can help with faster threats, although Miasmedics can Poison Jab Wino, but you can always switch...
Alas, that is but my humble opinions. Follow it if you think it's right, but OK if not.
[1] Winotinger already has all-out attacker sets in this showcase. Just because it has Nasty Plot or Trick for another moveslot doesnt mean its not an all out attacker.
[2] HP ground is far superior than HP Rock/Ice. Though Thunderbolt and HP Ice does fill a certain niche. Might be worth point that out in the showcase I guess, but its not worth it imo. Of which, honestly only Gyarados is of a serious threat.... Pajay can't OHKO it without some sort of boost, and Blubelrog isn't exactly the best pokemon out there.
[3] Good idea to recommend a Psychic partner, but Brainoar isn't too great for synergy or a partner to Winotinger as if to Metalynx and Syrentide. Both dies to strong Physical attackers for an instance, and anything that hits hard and outspeeds both of them (which is plenty cause both also has medicore speed) is present. I'd rather recommend Pokemon like Laissure and Gliscor in this instance for an example.
[4] .....What? Trick Room? On a Pokemon with 85 base speed? No. Just.... no.
The general rule of Usable TR-ers are Pokemon with a MINIMUM base speed of 80 (which is already considered fast in most cases of Trick Room teams) and/or has access to Priority moves and/or is able to flexibly switch into danger and deal out chunks or damage and/or tanks well while dealing back damage and/or is super fast to work well with the team without TR and/or has access to strong priority moves; and they must fit at least a few of this niches to work well and synergies. Winotinger only fits one of this rule, which is that is able to decently freely switch into danger and deal out chunks of damage.
As we've discusses earlier meanwhile @Pocket, this showcase is simplistic but catches the charm of the Pokemon Showcased very well. Sure, more details can still be added, but once again im still a little too busy to properly critique and analyze it XD really good job on your showcase. I hope I can see more from you in the future.
RE: Winotinger - Lord Windos - 10-26-2016
I have to say that this is a great effort for a first time guide, but I was (eventually) planning on doing this Pokémon at some point in the future. If you plan on doing more guides in the future, I'd check power's pinned thread, since he keeps a list of pokemon people have already 'reserved' to do a guide in the future. Not too mad, since I have been thinking of a guide for other Pokémon....
Speaking of the guide itself, while its always nice to have a little of everything in a moveset, but its perfectly alright to have a full status moveset over a attack and status. I'd also like to think that while its defenses are not the best, it could utilize a Crocune set to great effect, or be able to creatively use Substitute in clever ways, due to its typing/ability/High HP. A Mixed Attack/Phys Attack set could also be used with Bulk Up if you want to have defensive variety and surprise factor, or teach in Baton Pass and some boosting moves to change its role in a team support. Bunny has a lot of potential going for it- its speed, like everything in so many pokemon, is holding it back...
RE: Winotinger - Pocket - 10-26-2016
@Lord Windos, Whoops! Reeves told me I could just go at it so I took his word for it. I'll definitely check that next time. As for the changes, I don't think that a Crocune style set would be best for Winotinger. Part of it's niche is it's offensive typing and status moves. Rest and Sleep Talk eat into that versatility so much, so I think Crocune style sets would be best for another Pokemon. It's really a shame that Winotinger doesn't get access to reliable recovery. I might slash Substitute in the Defensive CM set and make a mixed Life Orb set (no recoil thanks to Magic Guard). Baton Pass is another cool option that could work, I'll make a set for that too. Thanks for the suggestions!
RE: Winotinger - Lord Windos - 10-27-2016
@Pocket Well, that is your preference. I won't force you to make any changes you feel would go against this pokemon's grain. The Mixed Attacker with Life Orb would be a nice idea, though. Wish I thought of that~!
RE: Winotinger - Cataclyptic - 10-29-2016
Excellent sets dude. This what a guide should strive to be.