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Something to fear - Spiritmon - 12-08-2016
Hello everyone. Well, after what i heard in the Game Awards about Nintendo ask to Uranium and AMR2 to be out from the Award of Best Fangame (i hate you even more Nintendo) this confirm my theory: Nintendo dont have any sense of morals and they spit in the face of any fan action. And i think this way: When they discover Uranium still alive, THEY will take down again the game, the online features, and more worse, the Forums. Nintendo dont care about the fans, they dont care about the creators of fangames, the only they really care its make money. I know, i know, by the law they have all copryrights of the games and everything, but the fans dont ask any money, its just something they do to show the apreciation and love to the games, and that Nintendo crushs that work. They dont give a damn about fans.
My sugestion, its to make some way to save the system and code about the forums, and some way creat a backup if is possible, so that way, even they take down the forums, to have another place to go. And second: To try not warn about the revive of the forums and the game itself. Some of you might think: "But Nintendo already took down the forums. They not try again". My friends, after all things Nintendo do, you still have doubts they would not try again? If is what you think, we can only wait for the worse.
RE: Something to fear - Iron - 12-08-2016
The new spread of the game is orders of magnitude smaller than the original. You never know what the future will bring, of course, but it'd be wrong to panic.
RE: Something to fear - Spiritmon - 12-08-2016
(12-08-2016, 06:52 PM)Iron Wrote: The new spread of the game is orders of magnitude smaller than the original. You never know what the future will bring, of course, but it'd be wrong to panic.
I not panic. I worried. And after everything Nintendo do, i not have doubts for what they can do. We must be prepared.
RE: Something to fear - PhantomUnderYourDesk - 12-09-2016
First, it wasn't Nintendo who took away the nomination. I was probably one of the few people who had a neutral view on the whole issue, and I kept on following this after the loss of nomination was discovered, until the award took place and a winner was crowned. Ask Cody, he can back this up. So don't engage in speculation from earlier and take them for the truth because it matches the sentiment, please.
Second, I told that to you once before, insults will lead to nowhere, only create unnecessary hate (want me to report it?) and this is definitely not a place to rage against a company that actually did quite much for their customers. Or to rage at all.
Third, copyright. As a traditional artist for around 10 years now and someone who enjoys buying good quality Fanart at Anime Conventions and the like I do know what I am talking about. And that is, if you hurt any rights that actually belong to anyone else you'll get certainly in trouble. Don't think they (the respectful owner/s) won't ever find out. So it's a tricky issue that Uranium got taken down, and saying that this was wrong/why did you do that/Curse you Nintendo/ is way too easy. There's also a reason that I'm careful with uploading any of my art on the internet (well, apart from my private art blog on tumblr), and if, never without a selfmade copyright label inserted somewhere.
Fourth, I'm not a coder or programmer, but I do know a bit about wrtting websites. And what you suggest here, coding or backing up the forum, wouldn't be that easy I fear. It could be recreated if taken down, but I assume yet existing content in threads would be lost.
RE: Something to fear - Spiritmon - 12-09-2016
(12-09-2016, 12:47 AM)PhantomUnderYourDesk Wrote: First, it wasn't Nintendo who took away the nomination. I was probably one of the few people who had a neutral view on the whole issue, and I kept on following this after the loss of nomination was discovered, until the award took place and a winner was crowned. Ask Cody, he can back this up. So don't engage in speculation from earlier and take them for the truth because it matches the sentiment, please.
Second, I told that to you once before, insults will lead to nowhere, only create unnecessary hate (want me to report it?) and this is definitely not a place to rage against a company that actually did quite much for their customers. Or to rage at all.
Third, copyright. As a traditional artist for around 10 years now and someone who enjoys buying good quality Fanart at Anime Conventions and the like I do know what I am talking about. And that is, if you hurt any rights that actually belong to anyone else you'll get certainly in trouble. Don't think they (the respectful owner/s) won't ever find out. So it's a tricky issue that Uranium got taken down, and saying that this was wrong/why did you do that/Curse you Nintendo/ is way too easy. There's also a reason that I'm careful with uploading any of my art on the internet (well, apart from my private art blog on tumblr), and if, never without a selfmade copyright label inserted somewhere.
Fourth, I'm not a coder or programmer, but I do know a bit about wrtting websites. And what you suggest here, coding or backing up the forum, wouldn't be that easy I fear. It could be recreated if taken down, but I assume yet existing content in threads would be lost.
Well, first thank you about the thread. Second, if Nintendo not took away the nomination of Uranium and AMR2, then who was? I think its very strange two games get nomitaded, both by Nintendo, and then they disapear. And i saying this not just because of the sentiment, but because its suspicious.
Third: I insulting Nintendo? I just saying some things they really do, like split in the face of fans who gains nothing about money, just to show a way to greet Nintendo, and show some apreciation. And Nintendo dont really care and they slap in the face of that persons.
Four: I already aware about copyright like I say. By the law they can take the credits of this creators from the fan games, and takedown then. By they really need to be to much radical by destroying ALL of they?
Five: Thanks for telling that. I not a genius of programmer and code, so I was not sure if is possible or not.
Six: Finally, let me tell you a history: A some time ago, Nintendo try to make a deal with YouTube: Any YouTuber who make any game with the mark of Nintendo, need to pay a tax to make a Gameplay. If this is not to be a imoral, I dont know what is it.
I dont like the actions of Nintendo. In any way. They have right by the law? They have. They have moral to do that radical actions? I dont think so.
But I respect your neutral view about Nintendo. I will negate they are a great company, with memoral games and great games. But I dont like the radical way they act against the fans.
RE: Something to fear - PhantomUnderYourDesk - 12-09-2016
About second, ask Cody about that, he wrote mails and talked to Eurogamer, and in the end I found something that solved the mystery.
About third, I don’t want to argue with you (again), but I took some of your upper words as an insult against a company that goes with me since childhood.
About four, expectations and things like “But this is so great! Can’t you just once let it be?” don’t go well with copyright.
About six, I don’t enjoy watching Let’s Plays and the like, so I don’t really care about that, nor know about that.
RE: Something to fear - Spiritmon - 12-09-2016
Well, I sorry if you feel that way about what I say. But I simple cant be quiet about something its not fair or is wrong. Life its not fair, she never is, but this dont mean we can just accept, sit and do nothing.
But like I say before, I respect your neutral position about Nintendo. I can understand Nintendo was a part of your life and childhood, and when you hear about something negative about that company, its just like a insult to you too. And this is what me not just infurious against Nintendo, but sad too. Nintendo its one of the greatnest game company in this world, with so many great games, many classics games who after many years still touch so many gamers.
I think Nintendo really should change of this radical ways, and not destroy the fans who love her, but try to understand, listen and talk. This is ridiculous wish, and I know this is something almost impossible. Maybe they Will change the way they see about the fans express they apreciation. Or maybe not.
Sorry if I ofended you Phantom, but this dont mean I change my opinion. But I apreciate you honest words, and the love you have for that company. You are a good person.
RE: Something to fear - EeveeBailey - 12-09-2016
I don't think there's much of a reason to "argue" here over everyone's unique opinions of Nintendo concerning the takedowns. Each of us is going to look at the situation and respond to it differently, and there's really nothing inherently wrong about that as long as everyone respects each others' viewpoints.
Personally, I have utmost respect for Nintendo and the creators themselves of Pokemon, as I've played and enjoyed a vast majority of their games and will continue to do so. Really, it's Nintendo's lawyers that I take offense at, especially considering that fanfiction and fanart of Nintendo's IP is all over the place and they do nothing about it (I'm of the mindset that a fangame is nothing but interactive fanfic/fanart combined in one)... and yet, I also realize that said lawyers are, after all, only doing their job. I may not like that job that they're doing, but I can't blame them for doing it; they have to make a living somehow, just like the rest of us.
I do have my own inherent concerns over the future of the game should Nintendo find out (assuming they haven't already) that development is still continuing. But as @Iron suggested, the growth is much slower now that when Uranium launched. The community is being cautious with how / when / where we're advertising. And at this particular point in time, the genie is already well out of the bottle and it's going to be pretty much impossible for Nintendo to even attempt to put it back in. We know at least 1.5 million people downloaded Uranium when it was first released. People are still finding the game even now and downloading it. Once something is out there on the Internet, it's out there, for better or for worse.
So while I still worry in the back of my mind that one day I could log on to find the forums and the Discord and the servers gone again... I also know that this community will never truly die. We came back from the brink once; we could certainly do it again if need be. And I can't help but think that perhaps Nintendo is aware of that and of how futile it would be to try to squash a community of literally over a million strong and worldwide. If anything, it could likely pose a PR issue for them!
RE: Something to fear - Spiritmon - 12-09-2016
(12-09-2016, 12:53 PM)EeveeBailey Wrote: I don't think there's much of a reason to "argue" here over everyone's unique opinions of Nintendo concerning the takedowns. Each of us is going to look at the situation and respond to it differently, and there's really nothing inherently wrong about that as long as everyone respects each others' viewpoints.
Personally, I have utmost respect for Nintendo and the creators themselves of Pokemon, as I've played and enjoyed a vast majority of their games and will continue to do so. Really, it's Nintendo's lawyers that I take offense at, especially considering that fanfiction and fanart of Nintendo's IP is all over the place and they do nothing about it (I'm of the mindset that a fangame is nothing but interactive fanfic/fanart combined in one)... and yet, I also realize that said lawyers are, after all, only doing their job. I may not like that job that they're doing, but I can't blame them for doing it; they have to make a living somehow, just like the rest of us.
I do have my own inherent concerns over the future of the game should Nintendo find out (assuming they haven't already) that development is still continuing. But as @Iron suggested, the growth is much slower now that when Uranium launched. The community is being cautious with how / when / where we're advertising. And at this particular point in time, the genie is already well out of the bottle and it's going to be pretty much impossible for Nintendo to even attempt to put it back in. We know at least 1.5 million people downloaded Uranium when it was first released. People are still finding the game even now and downloading it. Once something is out there on the Internet, it's out there, for better or for worse.
So while I still worry in the back of my mind that one day I could log on to find the forums and the Discord and the servers gone again... I also know that this community will never truly die. We came back from the brink once; we could certainly do it again if need be. And I can't help but think that perhaps Nintendo is aware of that and of how futile it would be to try to squash a community of literally over a million strong and worldwide. If anything, it could likely pose a PR issue for them!
I think you right. I dont like the actions they do (in true i hate it) but even i need to accepted they need to do they job. Even in wrong ways. Besides i i have that same fear: One day, i can enter in the forums and find it takedown again. Isso realmente me deixaria furioso e emputecido. Sorry about the portuguese language, i kinda feel to say in that way. And yeah, i believe even Nintendo takedown the forums and the Discord, we would return again from the ashes, like before.
RE: Something to fear - Lord Windos - 12-12-2016
@PhantomUnderYourDesk and @Spiritmon
I think that argueing over Nintendo's rights and priviliages is a fairly moot point, personally. I get both of your arguments, I do, and while I personally feel more inclined to agree with Phantom's neutralist stance, that is beside the point. In the end, Nintendo is what it has always been: A corporation, bent on making as much money for itself and its shareholders as possible. As such, anything that infringes on that principle, or worse, costs them, should be taken care of prudently to avoid unnessary losses.
This is why they take down anything that use their IP: they want to protect their brand, and prevent it from losing its valve, either to prevent low quality content from flooding the market, or having a bunch of perfectly good, FREE content competing with what they are selling. They also have a right (or duty, more accurately) to ensure that, at the end of the day, the lights stay on, so ruthlessly pursuing rouge IP users and policing their content certainly falls in line. Nintendo, at the end of the day, is a company, and all its doing is trying to stay afloat.
.... That doesn't mean I agree with how they handle infringement and YouTube content, though.
First, for those that don't know, YouTube has a, frankly, broken, shitty automated system in place to handle Copyright Infringement, which is easy for people to exploit and weaponized against other. They have it in part to cover their asses against big corporation, as a way to palicate them from people showing off and using their brands. Pat of that system is whether or not a person, if they use ANYTHING from their IP in their videos, show be allowed to monetize it.
Corporation can either allow it, choose to demonetize them in protest, or, here is the kicker, outright steal the ad revenue for themselves with no recourse. This mess causes a bunch of problem for the people hit with this, causing a bunch of legal troubles and disputes that is always time consuming to take care off, and ultimately leaves a Channel Operater poorer for it. Meanwhile, acorporation can sit back and rank in ad rev from someone else original content, and never has to pay the guys back if they get their right back. Their is also Content ID, but the less said about that, the better...
I bring this up because Nintendo is perhaps one of the more egregious users of this broken, exploitable, and easily weaponized system. Anything that even has a scarp of footage from their games/original content, even if it was trailer footage? Zap! Its theirs now, and they can run ads and profit on those videos if they wish; even if those video were the original content of their creators! Even if they choose not to run bleeding ads on it in the first place!!!
While bluring the line a bit, Fair Use is certainly a big part in using unoriginal content for use in creative, interpretive works; its how letsplayer, reviewer and critics of various media can stand to profit at all. People's livelyhoods often come from the ad revenue they make on videos, and the fact that it can be taken away any minuted by an automated system set by a Corp that does not give a ****.... its horrifying.
The fact that Nintendo is one of the biggest users of this system, with them standing to profit off other people's works without even their say so, cast them in a VERY negative light to me. Doesn't help they also try to further police their IP by arranging deals with big name Youtubers, screwing with the livelinghoods of thousands other, making them appear veeeeery shifty in many eyes. And shity too, just to put it out there. Their is also the artificial scarcity racket they like to run with amiibos and small NES, but that is a topic for another discussion.
Then their is how they handle games that use any of their IP: they weld a hammer, and smashes them to pieces. Either with CoDs, or vague and menacing threats from their lawyers, they always take down anything they set their sights on, and while they are permitted to do so, it does not mean that they always have to. For works that try to profit off their IP: Hammer away, Nintendo! For popular, non-profit works: calm down, and why not work something out peacefully? These types of works don't stand to make any money from your IP, and in fact can serve as a form of advertisement for you, and you still take them down? Really? Is that so necessary. or can't you and your lawyers think of something else?
The point I am trying to make, with those paragraphs, is while Nintendo certainly has a right to do what is necessary to protect their intellectual property, they are not totally without blame for the way they enforce their rights. I like what they produce, and I want to believe the best in the people that work their, but by Arceas, they can stand to tone down their draconian tactics and be more consumer friendly! Nintendo is not bad, per say, but they can be right bastards in some situations...