(01-04-2019, 12:36 AM)Spiritmon Wrote:

Spoiler

People I have a Poke Question who is bothering me for a long time...what the hell is mythic Pokemon? I mean, the Legendary Pokemon is powerful and rare Pokemon who normally do not evolve, not counting alternative forms, is extremely rare to the point of exist only one in certain situations, and combined numbers of his IVS be 600 like Ho-Oh, Lugia, Moltres etc. And there is the pseudo-legendary who is still rare Pokemon but not rare as Legendary, have a quick leveling evolution, have three forms, and the total IVs is also 600.

But what define a Mythic? Like Darkrai, Celebi or Arceus itself? What makes them Mythics and not Legendary? 

Per example Zearora. Yeah it's kinda fits in the term legendary Pokemon but... I don't know. The only thing it's say it's his ability to absorb electricity. And that's it. Not to mention he do not even have a signature ability or something to define him as a Legendary. It's just Volt Absorb. And that's it. Not even a Alternative upgraded form of Volt Absorb. This doesn't make me consider him a Legendary Pokemon.

And there is the case of Solgaleo/Lunala. Are they truly Legendary Pokemon? Because as far I can remember, Legendary Pokemon do not evolve. And they evolve 2 times.

And there is Silvally case. He evolve 1 time and the combine numbers of IVs is 570. And Gamefreak consider him Legendary Pokemon. Who don't make to much sense to me. I mean, yeah I know he have a ability who make him able to change types like Arceus, but...along with the numbers, he doesn't have a... dramatic or intimidated appearance like other Legendary or Mythics. The far I could consider him would be a strong artificial Pokemon design to kill Ultra Beasts. But Legendary? No chance.

So yeah, I would like to know if someone could explain me about the difference of Mythic and Legendary.

Legendary

Legendary Pokémon (Japanese: 伝説のポケモン Legendary Pokémon) are a group of incredibly rare and often very powerful Pokémon, generally featured prominently in the legends and myths of the Pokémon world.
Mythical Pokémon are a related but separate group of Pokémon, which are usually event-exclusive. Apart from Japanese or Korean media, Mythical Pokémon were considered to be Legendary Pokémon prior to Generation V.
No explicit criteria defines what makes a Pokémon a Legendary Pokémon. Instead, the only way to identify a Pokémon as belonging to this group is through statements from official media, such as the games or anime.



Characteristics of Legendary Pokemon

Aside from the high statistics shared by most Legendary Pokémon, many can only be obtained once per save file (excluding Pokémon events); in order to obtain multiple, a player would need to trade for one.

The gender of most Legendary Pokémon is unknown (though there are seven notable exceptions: Latios, Latias, Heatran, Cresselia, Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus). In the core series games, no Legendary Pokémon can breed or hatch from an Egg. With the exception of Type: Null and Cosmog and their respective evolutionary families, Legendary Pokémon cannot evolve, although many are able to change form and are part of a duo or trio.

Mythical

Mythical Pokémon (Japanese: 幻のポケモン Illusory Pokémon) are a group of Pokémon seen so rarely in the Pokémon world that some question their very existence. These are event-exclusive Pokémon that, with few exceptions, cannot be obtained during normal gameplay[1].

In Japanese media, Mythical Pokémon and Legendary Pokémon have always been presented as distinct groups. In non-Japanese media prior to Generation V, Mythical Pokémon and Legendary Pokémon were both considered to be Legendary Pokémon (and the term Mythical Pokémon was unused); since Generation V, the two groups are presented as distinct groups in all official media. In Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs, Mythical Pokémon are referred to as rare Pokémon.



Characteristics of Mythical Pokemon

Mythical Pokémon are regarded as among the rarest in Pokémon world mythology. Some are seemingly unknown to most people, while others are thought of as stuff of legends. They typically receive minimal exposure during normal gameplay, usually alluded to in vague hints. They are then revealed to players months or years after the debut of their respective generation. Upon being revealed, they are celebrated across the numerous media, often starring in movies and being featured prominently in merchandise.

With few exceptions, Mythical Pokémon cannot be obtained in the core series games in the course of normal gameplay. They can typically only be obtained by Mystery Gift(either directly, or using an event item). They are distributed to players via Mystery Gift on special occasions such as screenings of Pokémon movies, events in retail stores, online distributions, and the Pokémon 20th Anniversary, or may be received via spin-off games that feature special connectivity.
The gender of every Mythical Pokémon is unknown. Almost all Mythical Pokémon cannot evolve, with the exception of Meltan, and most are unable to be bred although Manaphy and Phione can be bred with Ditto to produce Phione Eggs.

No Mythical Pokémon is required to complete the Pokédex for the Diploma, except in Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, which require the player to obtain Deoxys to complete the National Pokédex Diploma due to it being available as part of the Delta Episode.

(01-04-2019, 12:27 AM)Lord Windos Wrote: ....Mate, I am not usually one to get up at arms about your rules interpts, but in this case since Super Fang is now available for Spira, Heart, and Terra, and changing the way the Move works would nerf it hard sorta like what Iron did with Weather and definitely with Negative Will Mechanics, I have reason to protest it. In fact, I would like more moves like the current Interp of Super Fang, as having options to just straight up overcome monumental Defenses/Bulk is just great, as the only options right now are Sonicboom/Dragon Rage, SE Damage, most HMs, and unreliable OHKOs (Destiny Bond included)/suiciding with Final Gambit. Not likely to happen, but hey, hope springs eternal!

So, me vote (If there is one) is to keep with Super Fang doing 1/2 Current HP without Rolling. Its more useful and fun that way, and the less things that are left to dice luck to potentially hamper, the better.

(01-04-2019, 01:22 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Yes, I know that'd nerf it hard, as the expected damage output would go from 1/2 guaranteed  to about 1/4 on average (or about 5 if the opponent has over 20 HP).

The move's also kinda ridiculously OP compared to all other moves if left as is, though.  Guaranteed to bring your opponent down to -2 Pain in a single blow or do 10 damage?  Why wouldn't you use that move whenever possible when it has the largest damage output in the game while your target is at full/20+ HP?



I do agree that moves that bypass defenses are great, but by comparison, Psywave/Seismic Toss/Night Shade is going to have a max damage pool/roll of 8 dice after obtaining all 8 Gym Badges in this campaign.  They also normally have a max of 10 when used by a level 100 pokemon in the base rules.  I can expect to do only half of that because I have to roll all the damage, though, which is what keeps those moves from seeming too OP.  And the way Super Fang is now, if the opponent has 8 or more HP (which is becoming a more common occurrence this late in the game), then I have almost no reason to NOT use Super Fang as long as the target is vulnerable to it (and only Ghost types and Plot Deviced Pokemon are safe from it.  Even then, though, if you use Foresight/Odor Sleuth on a Ghost, even they aren't safe from Super Fang, so only Plot Deviced 'mons are the only ones that are truly safe, depending on how they're Plot Deviced), as Super Fang would give me my expected damage output guaranteed unless I happen to have a damage roll of 10+.

I'm concerned about the balance of leaving Super Fang as is, which is the main reason I'm asking/being nitpicky.  Sure, the move's relatively uncommon in the book, but it's common enough that it could still be a problem imo.  Pokerole was not exactly designed with the ability to easily and reliably do massive amounts of damage in mind from what I know of the battle system and mechanics.  Heck, they even nerfed HP recovery in multiple ways in the base rules to make sure that battles didn't drag on (for example, the 'you can only recover 3 HP per Round' rule that we aren't using).



I could in theory teach the move to Orthros and Carvanha in the future via Move Tutoring, so this does technically affect me too.  And it also technically affects Shiva as well because Linoone can also pick it up as a ? move.  I'm trying to be as unbiased about this as possible, though.



As I said, I'm still fine with leaving it as is as far as this campaign is concerned.  But I wanted to voice this concern at the very least, as a single move being able to shred pokemon with incredible, reliable speed certainly warrants raising an eyebrow.  That Milotic suddenly doesn't look so tanky anymore after a Super Fang does 10-13 damage to him, and then a second one then leaves him with only roughly 25-33% of the HP he started with.  And that's just two moves doing around 18-19 damage total, something which would normally be an incredibly luck dependent feat.

(01-04-2019, 02:13 AM)Lord Windos Wrote: As for the matter of HP Recovery, the nerfs they implemented made it borderline useless unless you had a crapton of Will to spend/could gain Will like crazy, while our current system with it makes it useful AND limited, so I'm not too sure why you brought it up, besides as an example of how to re-balance a mechanic to make it both fair AND fun to use.

Spoiler

(01-04-2019, 12:44 AM)Lord Windos Wrote: I'm not a foremost expert on this, but the difference between Legendary and Mythical Pokemon is mainly due to whether or not said uber Pokemon is avaliable in the base game as is, or if they're given out as gifts or you new downloadable Items/Things to access them. If the former, its a Legend, and if its the later, its a Mythic. Simple as that.

As for the matter of Silvally and the Solgaleo/Lunala line......well, I believe that Gamefreak is just expanding the definition of what constitutes a Legend. Plus, if we count Uranium (And we should, considering where we are posting....), Seikamater is another example of an Evolving Legend, and their's no debate surrounding her status, so I don't think its too farfetched to have Legends/Mythics with Evos (Even/Especially if they are not good ones).

(01-04-2019, 12:54 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote:

(01-04-2019, 12:36 AM)Spiritmon Wrote:

Spoiler

People I have a Poke Question who is bothering me for a long time...what the hell is mythic Pokemon? I mean, the Legendary Pokemon is powerful and rare Pokemon who normally do not evolve, not counting alternative forms, is extremely rare to the point of exist only one in certain situations, and combined numbers of his IVS be 600 like Ho-Oh, Lugia, Moltres etc. And there is the pseudo-legendary who is still rare Pokemon but not rare as Legendary, have a quick leveling evolution, have three forms, and the total IVs is also 600.

But what define a Mythic? Like Darkrai, Celebi or Arceus itself? What makes them Mythics and not Legendary? 

Per example Zearora. Yeah it's kinda fits in the term legendary Pokemon but... I don't know. The only thing it's say it's his ability to absorb electricity. And that's it. Not to mention he do not even have a signature ability or something to define him as a Legendary. It's just Volt Absorb. And that's it. Not even a Alternative upgraded form of Volt Absorb. This doesn't make me consider him a Legendary Pokemon.

And there is the case of Solgaleo/Lunala. Are they truly Legendary Pokemon? Because as far I can remember, Legendary Pokemon do not evolve. And they evolve 2 times.

And there is Silvally case. He evolve 1 time and the combine numbers of IVs is 570. And Gamefreak consider him Legendary Pokemon. Who don't make to much sense to me. I mean, yeah I know he have a ability who make him able to change types like Arceus, but...along with the numbers, he doesn't have a... dramatic or intimidated appearance like other Legendary or Mythics. The far I could consider him would be a strong artificial Pokemon design to kill Ultra Beasts. But Legendary? No chance.

So yeah, I would like to know if someone could explain me about the difference of Mythic and Legendary.

Well, let me give you the definitions from Bulbapedia:

Legendary

Legendary Pokémon (Japanese: 伝説のポケモン Legendary Pokémon) are a group of incredibly rare and often very powerful Pokémon, generally featured prominently in the legends and myths of the Pokémon world.
Mythical Pokémon are a related but separate group of Pokémon, which are usually event-exclusive. Apart from Japanese or Korean media, Mythical Pokémon were considered to be Legendary Pokémon prior to Generation V.
No explicit criteria defines what makes a Pokémon a Legendary Pokémon. Instead, the only way to identify a Pokémon as belonging to this group is through statements from official media, such as the games or anime.



Characteristics of Legendary Pokemon

Aside from the high statistics shared by most Legendary Pokémon, many can only be obtained once per save file (excluding Pokémon events); in order to obtain multiple, a player would need to trade for one.

The gender of most Legendary Pokémon is unknown (though there are seven notable exceptions: Latios, Latias, Heatran, Cresselia, Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus). In the core series games, no Legendary Pokémon can breed or hatch from an Egg. With the exception of Type: Null and Cosmog and their respective evolutionary families, Legendary Pokémon cannot evolve, although many are able to change form and are part of a duo or trio.

Mythical

Mythical Pokémon (Japanese: 幻のポケモン Illusory Pokémon) are a group of Pokémon seen so rarely in the Pokémon world that some question their very existence. These are event-exclusive Pokémon that, with few exceptions, cannot be obtained during normal gameplay[1].

In Japanese media, Mythical Pokémon and Legendary Pokémon have always been presented as distinct groups. In non-Japanese media prior to Generation V, Mythical Pokémon and Legendary Pokémon were both considered to be Legendary Pokémon (and the term Mythical Pokémon was unused); since Generation V, the two groups are presented as distinct groups in all official media. In Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs, Mythical Pokémon are referred to as rare Pokémon.



Characteristics of Mythical Pokemon

Mythical Pokémon are regarded as among the rarest in Pokémon world mythology. Some are seemingly unknown to most people, while others are thought of as stuff of legends. They typically receive minimal exposure during normal gameplay, usually alluded to in vague hints. They are then revealed to players months or years after the debut of their respective generation. Upon being revealed, they are celebrated across the numerous media, often starring in movies and being featured prominently in merchandise.

With few exceptions, Mythical Pokémon cannot be obtained in the core series games in the course of normal gameplay. They can typically only be obtained by Mystery Gift(either directly, or using an event item). They are distributed to players via Mystery Gift on special occasions such as screenings of Pokémon movies, events in retail stores, online distributions, and the Pokémon 20th Anniversary, or may be received via spin-off games that feature special connectivity.
The gender of every Mythical Pokémon is unknown. Almost all Mythical Pokémon cannot evolve, with the exception of Meltan, and most are unable to be bred although Manaphy and Phione can be bred with Ditto to produce Phione Eggs.

No Mythical Pokémon is required to complete the Pokédex for the Diploma, except in Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, which require the player to obtain Deoxys to complete the National Pokédex Diploma due to it being available as part of the Delta Episode.

In short, the way I like to generally think about it is that Legendaries are pokemon that are well recorded in a region's lore and history.  Mythicals, meanwhile, are so rare, it's to the point where most in modern times don't believe they exist.  Those interpretations generally line up with the individual definitions of Myths and Legends, too.  Legends are often regarded as being more historically grounded than Myths are.

Yes, Solgaleo and Lunala count as Legendaries.  As does Silvally according to Bulbapedia's definition.  And Melmetal counts as a Mythical.  Their existence in actual evolution lines redefined that part of what it means to be a Legendary or Mythical pokemon, so being unable to evolve is no longer a requirement of either to fit the definitions.  And as Windos pointed out, Seikamater fits that redefinition too.



And in case you were wondering, Mythicals in Creshire are likely just called Legendaries partly because their presence throughout Creshire's history is (somewhat) well recorded in addition to their powers being (somewhat) on par with the bigger Legends that are more commonly found in other regions.

(01-04-2019, 08:44 AM)Spiritmon Wrote: Well, Melmetall its...a complicated one. You cant expected me to believe a Screw Pokemon exist in the Pokemon ancient history and who evolution becomes a motor Pokemon. Its more easy to believe Gyarados or Aegislash to be Legendary Pokemon, instead of this and this be mythicals. And here I thinking Arial was the guy with the loose screws.

Sometimes, I wondering if Nintendo and Gamefreak really know what they doing with their Lore. I think after XY they decided to "screw" lore and history and lets make Pokemon who doesnt make sense. But thinking better Pokemon never really care vey much in history. Only in game mechanics.

(01-04-2019, 10:52 AM)Mikaruge108 Wrote: Y'know this is something I've been wondering for quite some time: how the heck do pupa Pokemon, such as Kakuna or Metapod even execute the move Bug Bite?