(08-28-2019, 11:24 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: There's no time to fetch it.  Deoxys is attacking NOW.  Key Stones, SURF...we're gonna have to do this without them.  But I'm reasonably certain we'll all definitely have more than earned access to them after all of this is over.

Not hard to imagine how powerful a PD HM is.  A PD ROCK SMASH was able to chip the minarets!  That's quite a feat, given the context!  (though it didn't change how the PD damage works, obviously).  I'm also able to reasonably say that yes, SURF does have spread/AOE capability of some kind, given that Iron has told me that it essentially turns battlefields into giant swimming pools.  Sounds useful, no?

Yeah, I was kind thinking bringing a Fire type just in case we need to burn away some Tall Grass.  (also, Swiftfire doesn't need Salac Berries. ;P  Flame Charge is awesome)

The main problem with Porygon-Z is Conversion is still random.  So while I could get a Dark or Bug type Porygon-Z, I might also get Electric, Normal, or Psychic.

(08-28-2019, 11:58 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Honestly, though......I'm not feeling like either Mega Evolution or HM Surf is nearly as valuable as a reward now, due to the fact that by the time we get them, we don't really have any use for them that isn't just superfluous. Nathan's already got 6 Badges and has already beaten Legends and Boss Mons without Mega Evo , and after fighting DEOXYS it isn't likely we'll be facing threats of that magnitude anymore (Bar the Skull Ruins or the Scimitars being dicks again) that would make that mechanic feel both a boon and useful addition instead of just cake frosting. That, and since the group has access to both The Artifacts and other Plot Device Held Items (The Frozen Roar, The Arceas Mural Plates, Adamant Sphere, etc..), Mega Evolution feels like it's been thoroughly overshadowed and token by comparison. Sure, that + 1 Boost to all Attributes is noice, as is the Ability Change, but given how bonkers strong all our Pokemon are due to our chara's Stats and the Moves/Surprises! they have available, that ain't too much. 

Huh, forgot about that! Thanks for the reminder! And yes, turning the surrounding area into wetlands does sound positively destructively useful!

Unless Porygon Z has Bug/Dark Moves himself, then changing his type to either wouldn't help much in regards to SP (Though becoming Dark Type would certainly limit what DEOXYS could do, unless they have a PD that bypasses Type Immunities). So Zippy and the Fire Types are starting to sound like a more appealing choice to me, by comparison of what each Pokemon brings to the table. What sort of tricks can the glitching digiduck do again, though?

(08-28-2019, 11:09 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Still....I feel like I failed you in some manner. If you wish (And Nathan is willing to concede to it), Terra could make a trip to Stair and by some TMs for Solomon to learn, along with a couple of Max Potions/Full Restores to even the score between us, so to speak.

(08-29-2019, 01:24 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote:

Spoiler

Still got the Elite 4 and Champion to face, as well as two more Gym Leaders (though after Angela, Dagny, and Tanuki, any challenge from further Gym Leaders probably isn't going to come from raw stats).  This adventure isn't quite over yet.

Adamant Sphere doesn't even appear to do anything at the moment, lol.  It's just a valuable item right now.

I was thinking more 'aquatic pokemon being able to battle on land' useful, tbh.  Though yes, the required volume of water for that probably would disrupt your surroundings quite a lot...
Conversion requires the user to know a move of said type in order to turn into it in the first place (the completely random type at the start of the campaign was a custom, fun idea I had for some progression stuff).  Seeing as it knows Nasty Plot/Foul Play, that makes Dark eligible.  Porygon-Z can also learn Signal Beam via level up and become Bug type (if/when I spend the exp on it, that is).  Electroweb for Electric, various Normal moves for Normal, and Psybeam/Trick Room/Agility for Psychic.

Couple tricks on Porygon-Z's end. 
- Able to buff all three major combat stats with Nasty Plot and Download/Agility/Defense Curl.  (Agility being the most valuable one here).  Automatic Strength boost from Download makes him rather beastly even without boosting, too (when it matters).
- Trick Room reverses initiative order (can be good or bad)
- Conversion shenanigans to get different STAB types and resistances (most relevant for Dark and Bug in this situation).  however, which of the 3-4 types it will change to is random. (and it takes a turn to setup for that STAB boost, too)
- Spread move in Electroweb
- Decent type coverage, having 4-5 attacking types.
- Currently has 51 exp, so it's able to learn Tri Attack or 1-2 cheaper moves

(08-29-2019, 02:59 AM)Lord Windos Wrote:

Spoiler

Considering the fact that the Elite Four and above are going to be possessing either some Plot Devices/Absurb Surprises! and/or Legends themselves (Hello there, Mist Lord!), Mega Evolution won't be THAT huge of a game changer, and against the Gym Leaders it's a frosting addition practically speaking, as unless they have Chuckle/Ventus like tactical accumen and/or odd rules that hamper us (Or are willing to bump up their usual difficulty against us) we don't have great need for Mega Evo. Our current power level can thrash just about any human not an Ace Trainer, Shield Maiden, or part of the upper echelons of the League, really!

It's a counterpart Item to the Frozen Roar, so I don't doubt there's some sort of way to make it more useful or unlock it's 'True Power' . One way I can think of is Heart and Terra dedicating a few Encounters working together to using their respective talents (Earthpower and Metal Sympathy) to either empower it or do said unlocking, as I don't think Iron would leave something like that totally irrelevant after its use.

Oh, mate, that's FAR too narrow thinking! Imagine the possibilities afforded to our characters of having what amounts to several Mobile Natural Disasters at your beck and call! Agriculture, battles, landscaping and revitalization, and so much more! No wonder the League wants to keep that HM under lock and key, as the potential for HUGE shenanigans it can fuel is broad and....well, HUGE!

....Oh yeah, I remember that now. Not entirely sure if that was a necessary compromise on your part to get Conversion working the way you envision or it WAS purely for fun, but either way it appears to have become quite inconvenient now. Welp, if you need to you could always ask Iron if you could spend some of Porygon Z's XP to see if you could upgrade/make it consistent. Otherwise, the random fact in its usage.....kinda off-putting, but that's just me. 

Wow, that's a lot of stuff it can do! Not sure if Nasty Plot could do anything of use (Darn, that hurts to say...) , but Agility definitely is a real winner there! Makes me pine for having access to Tailwind support, though, as + 2 DEX on multiple Pokemon would certainly give us a yet another edge against DEOXYS. Genie could have potentially been Tutored in it, but Shiva and I never got around to doing that for her, so THAT is now biting all of us in the but right now. Oy vie.....

Having access to both Foul Play and Electro Webs on P.Z. is just fabulous, FABULOUS! That sheer offense and flexibility those two Moves offer in the battle ahead is invaluable, and the fact both Moves are on 1 Pokemon allows for Role compression too and could free up other slots for more specialists out there! Not bad, not bad!

Trick Room.....well, I have to say it would certainly be nice to have the option of inverting the Initiative Order, but I'm not sure if it would be actually useful in a Mass Mob Fight unless we and our NPC allies all rolled terribly on INI (In which case, we're probably screwed at that point). Nice, but situational, especially for Nathan given he's probably going to suffer the most from it due to being the Speed Demon of the group.

Overall, Porygon Z is not actually that bad of a choice to bring against Deoxys, and in a sense it be a glorious return of form for the soligraphic construct! You do have to ask yourself this before you decide on bring them along, though: what is the second best option I'm giving up in place of them, and is it actually the inferior choice? Porygon brings a lot to the table, but what about Charizard and Swiftfire? And Juliet too, if you could conceivably rush their Evolution without too major of a consequence (Either XP loss or a sudden hike in Disobedience - though you could probably placate the later by taking her on a trip to the Skull Ruins to fetch souls to add to her plumage [In a sense, Dramsamas are sorta like Spiritombs in their soul collecting hobby, now that I think about it...] ... ) ?


----

Well, if you're sure mate..... Still want to buy you a few Max Potions at least, though, as regardless of whether they're compensation or not, having them for DEOXYS is a must if we can afford it! As for Solomon learning Nasty Plot....he sorta doesn't need too? He already knows Curse, and while that eats into his DEX by using it, Nathan's so fast that the lose would be utterly negligible, while they get an offense AND defense buff, which for him is probably better than a straight up + 2 STR! That, and Nasty Plot uses Intimidation as the last part of its Roll, while Curse uses the more conventional Channel, so the later would be more accurate than the former (Though admittedly it may not be by too much, given how robust your Rolls are like everyone else, eh?) .

Wait, Gallade what now? .....Why haven't you unlocked Psycho Cut for him yet, mate? Its a High Crit Powerful Psychic Sword Move , so I'd though you'd beelined to get it ASAP!

(08-29-2019, 02:59 AM)Lord Windos Wrote: (...)Makes me pine for having access to Tailwind support, though, as + 2 DEX on multiple Pokemon would certainly give us a yet another edge against DEOXYS. Genie could have potentially been Tutored in it, but Shiva and I never got around to doing that for her, so THAT is now biting all of us in the butt right now. Oy vie..... (...)

(08-29-2019, 01:02 PM)PhantomUnderYourDesk Wrote: Dragon, what you're stating in your last post does not make sense to me: You say that we don't have the luxury to take our time which I interpret as walking to the impact side is not an option, but at the same time you say you don't want to teleport either. ???? Can you please explain what you mean by that? Sorry if I don't get the point here, but it's an illogical thing to say in my view...

We have to get to Deoxys somehow though, and I'd prefer either teleporting or taking a flight with Angie and Co. like we did at some point already. I traveled from Cress City to Elanor with Helios already, so that's within reach. One option is fast and brings us directly to the impact side, the other allows us to observe the area at the cost of being less secret/ambush-like. The Sacred Grove is just a bit out of Elanor, so Shiva visiting it will only take, like, 15 minutes in-chara?