The Tandor Dex needs a stat squish

[ubergeneral]

Looking at the base stats of the new pokemon I see a whole lot of pokemon with great stats.

Unfortunately I think that average base stats is way higher than average pokemon generations in live games.

lets take a look.

I roughly averaged the stats of all fully evolved non legendary pokemon in gen 1. What I got was roughly an average of 493

Then I did the same with the whole tandor dex and got an average of 515

The long and short of it is there are too many pokemon with stats on the higher end. Many pokemon don't break 500 in gen 1 where as there are many 515+ statted pokemon in Tandor.

Lets take a look at a few offenders

Example 1

Bluberog

105 70 75 105 115 65 
Total 535

Very few pokemon get a total above 530. Usually a stat total this high is reserved for starters, and evolutions that are late game or hard to get.

The fortog family is more like the Nidoran family and it would make sense for Bluberog to have a stat total in the range of 480 - 505

Example 2

Brainoar
105 35 85 100 140 65
Total 535

What the heck is which these stats?
Why is a common fish getting 535 BST? I understand that it is the go to psychic pokemon. But it shouldn't be that good.

Look at Alakazam? It's total is 500. This is still a bit too high for Brainoar since it isn't a second evolution. I suggest to give it stats in the range of 465 - 490. This would put it more in line with other water pokemon like Dewgong, Kingler and Slowbro.

In general there needs to be a cut all across the board. Most pokemon above 530 need major nerfs. A whole bunch of pokemon should get bumped down into the 470 - 500 range. Non legendary pokemon with a stat total of 530 or higher should feel like they have earned it. It should be a special feat for them.

Mega Evolution take a hit. They rely on the base stats of the pokemon they are evolving from and while there are some really ridiculous mega forms, this doesn't mean that they should be out of control.

Thoughts?

[Kiryuu]

[full edit now that i can clearly see the questions]

Here's the problem with Uranium, Their Pokemons tries to "balance" things out too much and turns them into a massive high BST fest. The dex "seemingly" seems to focus to how a lot of pokemon can compete with each other. Let's take a look at gen 1 as you have mentioned earlier
Dragonite has 600 BST, whereas there's not a lot of pokemons that can have decent BST against it. That "seemingly" makes Dragonite as the power holder. the "dex" focuses on balancing things too much to make a lot of pokemon are actually viable. Like you don't always end up in a favorable situation going <500 BST against 600 BST assuming neutral typing and all. In comparison, let's say a favorable BST in gen 1 would be 480-540, anything above that would be a "meta". In uranium, there's a lot of pokemon having 520-550 BSTs, which would then mean 600 isn't that huge gap anymore and bring balance against the power holder (in this case Beliaddon, Yatagaryu and Laissure which have 600 BST)

The next part is the statement regarding Blubelrog and Brainoar. It's only fair for Brainoar to have as high BST compared to Blubelrog considering it's time investment. Fortog finally evolves to Blubelrog at 36(?) and Brainoar evolves at 34(?).

Third, Uranium gives too much credit towards stats that isn't highly necessary when it already has one that's significant. Take Luchabra, Luchabra has 120 Base attack, but on top of that also 90 sp atk. Most of the time you would focus towards that 120 Base attack. or Beliaddon, that has 145 attack and 80 sp atk. (If you take alakazam by example and translated into uranium it would turn into a 550 BST pokemon with +50 on atk on that alakazam)

Finally, here's the catch on why Uranium SHOULD indeed have high BST. Nuclear Typing. Nuclear Typing is very broken that it's fair for various pokemons to have high BST to actually counter this pesky typing. One example is Nucleon, Nucleon almost destroys everything in its sight. Now imagine if various other pokemons have lower BSTs like Brainoar. It's already affected by Ultra effective by nuclear moves. Now give it even less defensive stats, it'd be non viable against nuclears. It's already crippled by couple nuclear pokemons, it'd be an insult to injury for the non nuclear to even have worse overall power countering these. Give Glavinug less sp def?

Overall, is nerf towards total BST necessary? No. Uranium focuses too much towards one or two stats that you really shouldnt pay attention much towards their BST but towards their individual stats

[Lord Windos]

Personally, I am against changing the base stats of any Pokémon what so ever. The last time I remember that happened, the devs utterly destroy Dramsama's viability in competitive, so I am not too keen seeing any similar shenanigans going down. That, and I rather them implent all the HA's and Pokémon into the game first before even glancing at the Pokémon already in it (Oh Regenerator Luxi, I miss you so....).

[TechSkylander1518]

Brainoar's not really a common fish-you need Surf or a Good Rod to get it, so you could only get it shortly after the 4th gym. (unless you're willing to head all the way back to the ocean from Vinoville without even the Tandor Underground)

Magikarp can be caught just after the first gym, and while it's terrible in battle, it evolves into a Pokemon with a BST of 540 at only level 20. Sounds pretty broken to me, what were the devs thinking-oh, whoops, it's a canon mon.

The long and short of it is there are too many pokemon with stats on the higher end. Many pokemon don't break 500 in gen 1 where as there are many 515+ statted pokemon in Tandor.

 
Because Gen 1 set a precedent that should never, ever be broken, right?

Look at Alakazam? It's total is 500. This is still a bit too high for Brainoar since it isn't a second evolution. I suggest to give it stats in the range of 465 - 490. This would put it more in line with other water pokemon like Dewgong, Kingler and Slowbro.

None of these Pokemon are in Uranium. While I agree that general stat patterns should be followed, Uranium really doesn't have to worry about any Pokemon that aren't in the game, because they don't affect Uranium at all.

Very few pokemon get a total above 530. Usually a stat total this high is reserved for starters, and evolutions that are late game or hard to get.

Even excluding Megas and gimmicky Pokemon like Slaking and Wishiwashi (both of which are quite easy to get), there's still Archeops (obtained from a fossil), Arcanine (fairly easy to evolve, found about midgame), Florges (level up to 19 and then use a shiny stone), Gyarados (level 20), Vanilluxe (midgame, simple leveling up), and Gogat (level 32). While there still are many Pokemon found late game or hard to obtain that have a BST of 530+, it isn't exactly an exclusive club.

I roughly averaged the stats of all fully evolved non legendary pokemon in gen 1. What I got was roughly an average of 493

Then I did the same with the whole tandor dex and got an average of 515

I think there's some issues with using this to determine whether or not Tandor's Dex is balanced.

• Gen 1 only introduced one pseudo-legendary, Uranium includes three. That's obviously going to affect Tandor's total.
  
• Gen 1 Pokemon were the beginning of the series, and their stats have changed a lot over time. (Heck, they were around before the split of the Special stat into Special Attack and Special Defense)
  
• This is only comparing one canonical generation out of seven. You can't say that Uranium is overpowering all the canonical games if you're only comparing it to less than 25% of canonical Pokemon. 
  
• Is a difference of 22 points really that monumental?
  

Also, are you factoring in Mega Evolution in both of these totals, or just Tandor's?

[RileyXY1]

Brainoar's not really a common fish-you need Surf or a Good Rod to get it, so you could only get it shortly after the 4th gym. (unless you're willing to head all the way back to the ocean from Vinoville without even the Tandor Underground)

Magikarp can be caught just after the first gym, and while it's terrible in battle, it evolves into a Pokemon with a BST of 540 at only level 20. Sounds pretty broken to me, what were the devs thinking-oh, whoops, it's a canon mon.

The long and short of it is there are too many pokemon with stats on the higher end. Many pokemon don't break 500 in gen 1 where as there are many 515+ statted pokemon in Tandor.

 
Because Gen 1 set a precedent that should never, ever be broken, right?

Look at Alakazam? It's total is 500. This is still a bit too high for Brainoar since it isn't a second evolution. I suggest to give it stats in the range of 465 - 490. This would put it more in line with other water pokemon like Dewgong, Kingler and Slowbro.

None of these Pokemon are in Uranium. While I agree that general stat patterns should be followed, Uranium really doesn't have to worry about any Pokemon that aren't in the game, because they don't affect Uranium at all.

Very few pokemon get a total above 530. Usually a stat total this high is reserved for starters, and evolutions that are late game or hard to get.

Even excluding Megas and gimmicky Pokemon like Slaking and Wishiwashi (both of which are quite easy to get), there's still Archeops (obtained from a fossil), Arcanine (fairly easy to evolve, found about midgame), Florges (level up to 19 and then use a shiny stone), Gyarados (level 20), Vanilluxe (midgame, simple leveling up), and Gogat (level 32). While there still are many Pokemon found late game or hard to obtain that have a BST of 530+, it isn't exactly an exclusive club.

I roughly averaged the stats of all fully evolved non legendary pokemon in gen 1. What I got was roughly an average of 493

Then I did the same with the whole tandor dex and got an average of 515

I think there's some issues with using this to determine whether or not Tandor's Dex is balanced.

• Gen 1 only introduced one pseudo-legendary, Uranium includes three. That's obviously going to affect Tandor's total.
  
• Gen 1 Pokemon were the beginning of the series, and their stats have changed a lot over time. (Heck, they were around before the split of the Special stat into Special Attack and Special Defense)
  
• This is only comparing one canonical generation out of seven. You can't say that Uranium is overpowering all the canonical games if you're only comparing it to less than 25% of canonical Pokemon. 
  
• Is a difference of 22 points really that monumental?
  

Also, are you factoring in Mega Evolution in both of these totals, or just Tandor's?

Technically, Brailip can be found before the 2nd Badge. You can find it with the Old Rod on Route 4. Maybe he should compare Tandor's total with all of the gens instead of just Gen 1.

[TechSkylander1518]

Ah, my bad-I was thinking that it required the Good Rod to be fished up.

[Dragonstrike]

Concerning this, I believe the original intent is for the majority of the pokemon in the dex to be usable at the very least. There's very, very few pokemon that nobody would ever consider in a serious team (the normal/flying birds and kinetmunk are the big examples, and even they can find niches). I think that makes the Tandor dex something just a little special, since it allows for a great amount of variety when planning a team for any purpose. Are there clear powerhouses that benefit heavily from stat saturation? Definitely. But as mentioned before, some nuclear pokemon will just obliterate most opposition they encounter regardless of their stat totals (Nucleon, Urayne, N-Jerbolta), and even some non nuclear ones (I'm looking at you, Raffiti). If you didn't have some level of saturation in everything, that kind of powercreep would be a little unjustified.

I guess the point of it is that practically everything can compete in Tandor. It doesn't seem too off balance for most of the pokemon either because they're all in relatively close power levels (besides the very obviously incredibly broken ones that got everything lined up just right).