03-18-2017, 01:31 AM
Heh. I didn't really intend to do the definitive guide to competitive Raffiti, and honestly I don't think I'm qualified to do it - dirty secret here but I've never actually played competitive pokemon, I just like theorycrafting and overanalysing games. (Plus I don't actually have that many Raffiti sets in mind...) That said, if this thread turns into that then so be it.
On the subject of banning/tiering (in the event Smogon-style competitive meta ever becomes a thing in Uranium, anyway)... again I'm not sure I'm qualified to have an opinion, but for whatever it's worth I'll weigh in.
(I don't think it necessarily need be a straightforward ban or not decision either. From what I understand of Smogon's tiering systems, Smeargle shows up with different movesets in different tiers, I get the impression they also put limitations on some moves like Baton Pass that end up changing dramatically how Smeargle is played in different metas. So maybe Raffiti could be allowed in OU so long as it doesn't know Nuclear moves, but Raffiti with Nuclear moves is banned to Ubers? I'm just using that as an example of the sort of thing we might do. Or maybe we'd want a more general 'Nuclear Move clause' that would restrict Nuclear moves to a single pokemon per team?)
That said, I'm pretty sure Nucleon is both stronger and more centralising (but then Nucleon's probably the most powerful pokemon ever to exist in anything and I'll be shocked if it doesn't get confined to Ubers or equivalent, so that's not necessarily saying much). Compare, for instance, Hyper Voice to Atomic Punch (and let's note Nucleon's 115 SpA versus Raffiti's 80 Attack). Hyper Voice is 90 power, special, with STAB and Atomizate boost on top of that, and the possibility of Expert Belt or a choice item. Raffiti doesn't get STAB or the Atomizate boost on Atomic Punch, so the damage doesn't really become comparable until after the Shell Smash boost (I think Raffiti will probably hit comparably hard at +2 than Nucleon does unboosted, but it still needs to spend a turn getting there, and it's dedicating an extra move slot to Shell Smash and probably needs to hold Focus Sash). That said, Raffiti has better priority in Flame Impact (or maybe Extremespeed, I guess?) than Nucleon's Quick Attack, and better coverage against the steel mons (and Soundproof Paraboom) that Nucleon will struggle with. I think Raffiti's biggest weakness is going to be entry hazards, actually, if the sash breaks it's going to be much harder to survive to successfully Shell Smash and start sweeping.
I'm not sure how relevant it will be, but it may also end up mattering that Atomic Punch makes contact (and so do Flame Impact and Infernal Blade). That means Raffiti has to worry about Rocky Helmet and possibly abilities like Static (I don't know how common those will end up being in the meta though, e.g. whether non-mega Electruxo and Archilles will show up often, and the such like).
Although, now I'm thinking about it... I'm trying to think of a counter to my Raffiti set and can't quite think of one. I'd been thinking that anything with, say, Sturdy or a Focus Sash could come in on a free switch after it kills something, survive the hit and take it out. But that assumes (1) Raffiti's sash will have broken by then (which depends whether it put the opponent to sleep before going for Shell Smash, whether Sleep Powder hit and the random roll for the opponent to wake up), and (2) Raffiti doesn't outspeed and put the entering mon to sleep (ironically it seems like the best counter might be another Raffiti or something else with Insomnia). And entry hazards can't break Focus Sash if you lead with Raffiti the first turn. So in the end it may well come down to those dice rolls for Sleep Powder succeeding and/or the opponent staying asleep, and yeah, that's not the best gameplay...
The main danger of Raffiti outside of this, I think, is its unpredictability, because there are so many possible sets it could be running. But that might be good for the meta overall, even if I end up agreeing that certain sets might be better off banned.
That said (wow, I'm long-winded), let's talk about your set too.
Pretty sure you meant to say Timid nature, not Jolly, for a special-based build. And yeah, that's another good way to go, though I'm not crazy about the 70% accuracy on Expunge (that's as bad as Focus Blast aka "Focus Miss"!) if that's going to be the primary move to sweep with. Though as far as special nuclear moves go, it's between that, Radioacid, and Proton Beam (which I didn't mention, but you can get from Urayne the same way as Atomic Punch). But I don't think you'd want to rely on an Overheat-style move as the main attack either (I think Raffiti's probably too fragile to spend turns using setup moves to replace the lost stats, and I don't know that White Herb would be worth foregoing other hold items even if that makes it into the game). I also think it will be risky to run a set without a priorty attack, even with all the speed boosting; there are just too many dangerous priority threats in this meta (Inflagetah, Archilles, Harptera...).
I do like the idea of Quiver Dance, though, and of using Flame Orb/Quick Feet on a special-based setup. (And, heh, I guess Tail Glow could be on the table too, though it's not accessible now; it's even vaguely-apropos for Raffiti, considering its tail is full of paint.)
If you're curious... I looked into how to get these moves, if the bug isn't fixed. Expunge is sadly not available, the only Hazma we can fight are level 40 and it doesn't learn Expunge until 50. (Likewise Quiver Dance is tricky - the only sources I'm aware of are the 1% encounter wild Frosthra, and Theo's Nimflora in the Championship; maybe Vaeryn's Frosthra in the Championship if you roll him... honestly, that might be more annoying to obtain than Shell Smash.)
Another thought I had - not for either of these sets, obviously - was to wonder whether Raffiti could fill a different role in this meta as a hazard remover (which seems to me like something that is desperately needed). But it's not to be: Rapid Spin is still nowhere to be found, and Defog can't be sketched so long as the targeting bug remains (I'd been hoping maybe the L40 Hazma would have it when you fight them but nope). Which means we are still left with Hazma as literally the only pokemon capable of removing entry hazards.
I'm not sure where I'm going with all of this, honestly. But these are my thoughts for now.
On the subject of banning/tiering (in the event Smogon-style competitive meta ever becomes a thing in Uranium, anyway)... again I'm not sure I'm qualified to have an opinion, but for whatever it's worth I'll weigh in.
(I don't think it necessarily need be a straightforward ban or not decision either. From what I understand of Smogon's tiering systems, Smeargle shows up with different movesets in different tiers, I get the impression they also put limitations on some moves like Baton Pass that end up changing dramatically how Smeargle is played in different metas. So maybe Raffiti could be allowed in OU so long as it doesn't know Nuclear moves, but Raffiti with Nuclear moves is banned to Ubers? I'm just using that as an example of the sort of thing we might do. Or maybe we'd want a more general 'Nuclear Move clause' that would restrict Nuclear moves to a single pokemon per team?)
That said, I'm pretty sure Nucleon is both stronger and more centralising (but then Nucleon's probably the most powerful pokemon ever to exist in anything and I'll be shocked if it doesn't get confined to Ubers or equivalent, so that's not necessarily saying much). Compare, for instance, Hyper Voice to Atomic Punch (and let's note Nucleon's 115 SpA versus Raffiti's 80 Attack). Hyper Voice is 90 power, special, with STAB and Atomizate boost on top of that, and the possibility of Expert Belt or a choice item. Raffiti doesn't get STAB or the Atomizate boost on Atomic Punch, so the damage doesn't really become comparable until after the Shell Smash boost (I think Raffiti will probably hit comparably hard at +2 than Nucleon does unboosted, but it still needs to spend a turn getting there, and it's dedicating an extra move slot to Shell Smash and probably needs to hold Focus Sash). That said, Raffiti has better priority in Flame Impact (or maybe Extremespeed, I guess?) than Nucleon's Quick Attack, and better coverage against the steel mons (and Soundproof Paraboom) that Nucleon will struggle with. I think Raffiti's biggest weakness is going to be entry hazards, actually, if the sash breaks it's going to be much harder to survive to successfully Shell Smash and start sweeping.
I'm not sure how relevant it will be, but it may also end up mattering that Atomic Punch makes contact (and so do Flame Impact and Infernal Blade). That means Raffiti has to worry about Rocky Helmet and possibly abilities like Static (I don't know how common those will end up being in the meta though, e.g. whether non-mega Electruxo and Archilles will show up often, and the such like).
Although, now I'm thinking about it... I'm trying to think of a counter to my Raffiti set and can't quite think of one. I'd been thinking that anything with, say, Sturdy or a Focus Sash could come in on a free switch after it kills something, survive the hit and take it out. But that assumes (1) Raffiti's sash will have broken by then (which depends whether it put the opponent to sleep before going for Shell Smash, whether Sleep Powder hit and the random roll for the opponent to wake up), and (2) Raffiti doesn't outspeed and put the entering mon to sleep (ironically it seems like the best counter might be another Raffiti or something else with Insomnia). And entry hazards can't break Focus Sash if you lead with Raffiti the first turn. So in the end it may well come down to those dice rolls for Sleep Powder succeeding and/or the opponent staying asleep, and yeah, that's not the best gameplay...
The main danger of Raffiti outside of this, I think, is its unpredictability, because there are so many possible sets it could be running. But that might be good for the meta overall, even if I end up agreeing that certain sets might be better off banned.
That said (wow, I'm long-winded), let's talk about your set too.
Pretty sure you meant to say Timid nature, not Jolly, for a special-based build. And yeah, that's another good way to go, though I'm not crazy about the 70% accuracy on Expunge (that's as bad as Focus Blast aka "Focus Miss"!) if that's going to be the primary move to sweep with. Though as far as special nuclear moves go, it's between that, Radioacid, and Proton Beam (which I didn't mention, but you can get from Urayne the same way as Atomic Punch). But I don't think you'd want to rely on an Overheat-style move as the main attack either (I think Raffiti's probably too fragile to spend turns using setup moves to replace the lost stats, and I don't know that White Herb would be worth foregoing other hold items even if that makes it into the game). I also think it will be risky to run a set without a priorty attack, even with all the speed boosting; there are just too many dangerous priority threats in this meta (Inflagetah, Archilles, Harptera...).
I do like the idea of Quiver Dance, though, and of using Flame Orb/Quick Feet on a special-based setup. (And, heh, I guess Tail Glow could be on the table too, though it's not accessible now; it's even vaguely-apropos for Raffiti, considering its tail is full of paint.)
If you're curious... I looked into how to get these moves, if the bug isn't fixed. Expunge is sadly not available, the only Hazma we can fight are level 40 and it doesn't learn Expunge until 50. (Likewise Quiver Dance is tricky - the only sources I'm aware of are the 1% encounter wild Frosthra, and Theo's Nimflora in the Championship; maybe Vaeryn's Frosthra in the Championship if you roll him... honestly, that might be more annoying to obtain than Shell Smash.)
Another thought I had - not for either of these sets, obviously - was to wonder whether Raffiti could fill a different role in this meta as a hazard remover (which seems to me like something that is desperately needed). But it's not to be: Rapid Spin is still nowhere to be found, and Defog can't be sketched so long as the targeting bug remains (I'd been hoping maybe the L40 Hazma would have it when you fight them but nope). Which means we are still left with Hazma as literally the only pokemon capable of removing entry hazards.
I'm not sure where I'm going with all of this, honestly. But these are my thoughts for now.
