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Competitive Guide: Beliaddon
#17
(09-27-2016, 09:28 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote:
(09-27-2016, 09:16 PM)Lord Windos Wrote:
(09-27-2016, 09:09 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: I'd like to point out something about Defiant that can turn Beliaddon into a complete monster:

The existence of Sticky Web.

While niche, it's very much worth noting, as Beliaddon doesn't care too much about its speed outside of a choice scarf set, and free +2 attack every time it switches in is absolutely devastating.  There are enough really fast, grounded threats in Uranium to make Sticky Web a viable hazard when the opponent isn't running it, particularly since Seikamater is easily the best Sticky Web setter out of all the available ones in Uranium, and the Pokemon series as a whole so far if I may be so bold to claim that.  The queen is able to learn it via tutor according to the wiki.  Theoretically, the Cubbug line (Cubbug learns it at level 30) might also be able to breed it onto the elemental bugs since they're all in the bug egg group.  

If Sticky Web appears often enough on teams, Defiant Beliaddon will run rampant to have a way to exploit the hazard once it's been laid.  It's even scarier because it also happens to be the easiest hazard to null the usefulness of, since all you have to do to even the playing field again is lay a Sticky Web of your own.

Bloody hell, that's just awful! Anyway you slice it, Beliaddon only going to get better with time. Defog and Sticky Web become common enough? Beliaddon is going to have a great time. Even if it does not run Defiant, when and if Nucleon and reliable hazard removers enter the fray, thing will become a whole lot more interesting for it, that is for certain.

Any other things that might increase the effectiveness of this demon?
You've covered most of what it can do already.  I'm just surprised Sticky Web hasn't been mentioned yet is all, as it's easily one of the worst moves you could possibly use if the opponent has a grounded Defiant pokemon on their team.  Bisharp is scary, and would be way scarier if Sticky Web wasn't only learned by rather mediocre mons in the main series.  But here in Uranium, we have both extremely fast grounded threats you can outspeed with just a single change in either side's speed tier and a reliable Sticky Web setter in the extremely bulky Seikamater.

I think the only thing that could possibly make Beliaddon scarier at that point is if it suddenly learned how to use Sucker Punch!  That's the whole reason Bisharp is so feared, after all.  I don't know if it can though since the wiki doesn't have any egg moves listed for it yet.  I doubt it will be able to purely for balance purposes, since a STAB Sucker Punch coming off of a 145 attack stat is scary enough as it is.  For reference, Bisharp's attack stat is 125, and it's also not weak to stealth rock.  That's the other thing holding Beliaddon back.  That Stealth Rock weakness.  If you want a good Defiant user, look no further than Bisharp as an example.

Thanks for the advice and the little bit of insight, mate! Perhaps we can pension that move to be added to it set, as well as Pursuit?

(09-27-2016, 09:11 PM)poweroftibarn Wrote:
(09-27-2016, 08:42 PM)Lord Windos Wrote:
(09-27-2016, 01:32 PM)poweroftibarn Wrote:
(09-27-2016, 09:54 AM)Lord Windos Wrote:
(09-27-2016, 08:58 AM)poweroftibarn Wrote: Not a fan of Disenchant. Fairy is not a common coverage type and Beliaddon already takes neutral against Fairy, making the ability very situational. Defiant definitely deserves a mention as well. Once Defog becomes an HM or a move tutor move, Defiant will become very strong on Beliaddon, since it will allow him to switch in on Defog for a free +2 Attack, which is absurdly good. Additionally, when Nucleon gets the banhammer, users of Intimidate and Petrify such as Gyarados, Chimaconda, M-Arbok, and even Beliaddon himself will become more prevalent, further increasing the usefulness of Defiant.

As for the sets themselves, Choice Band and Flare Blitz deserve a mention on the first set. Choice Band is actually the best item to use on Beliaddon IMO, since it suits Beliaddon's pivoting nature quite well. Flare Blitz can definitely be used over Infernal Blade with 252 HP investment and you have a hazard remover on your team (which you should have if you are using Beliaddon in the first place). Not a fan of the second set, I don't like making Beliaddon full tank. Bulk Up still isn't that bad on Beliaddon, but some attack EVs would be appreciated.  The anti lead set is pretty good, only problem is that Fire Orb and Fling are unnecessary when you have Will-o-wisp.

I would like to see two sets added: a choice scarf set and a subpunch set. In the interim, I will petition for Pursuit to be added to Beliaddon's move pool. Overall, nice work.

When I was writing this guide, I though of Defient as very situational. Getting a free stat boost is nice, but without some form of baton pass support, anything that gives it can either switch out to a physical wall and counter it, or, in the case of Gyarados and Chimicoda, Hydro Pump/Toxic it. If those don't KO it, it will be severely crippled, even with Drain Punch. Still, once Defog becomes more prevalent, though, and Nucleon bites the dust (Sadly), it usefulness will increase, so I'll rework the guide to make include that function.

As for Disenchant being situational, well, yes it is. There are not a lot of Fairies out there, and sacrificing Intimidate's ability to force switchs/make you bulkier or, as you point out, free exploitable ATK boosts from Defient does not sound like a good idea. However, what fairy type there around are pretty powerful. Slyveon, Luxelong, Winotinger, Mega Syrentide, and Mega Kircorn all are solid Pokémon that need to be accounted for, so having a 'mon that can switch into there STABs and brutally retaliate is quite useful, escpecially if your running one of the Various dragons on your team.

The Tank set may not to be to everyone's preference, but I will add some option for a alternative EV spread for it, if they want more ATK to run.

I have never been a fan of Choice Items myself, but I can not deny their usefulness. A Choice Band set would be ridiculously strong on Beliaddon, making whatever coverage move it uses be even more dangerous. A Choice Scarf set, though, seems a bit... weak on Beliaddon. A lot of things outrun it even with full investment in SPD, and the few things that can't either are not to prevelant in 'higher' tiers, or have some way of Killing it quickly. If you can give you thoughts on why a Choice Scarf set is important, I will see if a set can be made.

As for Flare Blitz, I already explained my thoughts on it, but I'll add it for completeness sake, if nothing else.

Subpunch can be accommodated for, though. At the time, I though that more than one Sub. set would be a bit too much, but I see the appeal of it. I'll get on it later today, or maybe sooner than that.

 If Pursiut was added to its movepool, I would so add it in on all the sets (or most) or the sets. Beliaddon's ability to force switches is extremely powerful, and having pursuit paired with that would be icing on the cake. Thank you for the critique, again, because I can not improve on these guide without someone telling me I am doing something wrong~ Tongue

Gyarados is a Physical Attacker and rarely runs Hydro Pump, meaning it must hit Beliaddon through its Defense stat, which is good since Beliaddon has more Defense than Special Defense.  Gyarados on the other hand has very poor physical Defense, allowing it to be annihilated by Beliaddon's +1 Knock Off, especially if Beliaddon is Banded.  As for Chimaconda, it does have the option to Toxic Beliaddon, but will have to trade it's life in order to do so, since Beliaddon will retaliate with a +2 4x effective Earthquake.  

About Disenchant, the only fairies you mentioned who are really threatening are Winotinger and Syrentide, both of which make mince meat of Beliaddon with their other STABs, making Disenchant irrelevant.  Beliaddon doesn't need Disenchant to deal with Luxelong or Sylveon, he is already neutral to fairy in the first place and can annihilate them with a Flare Blitz or an Infernal Blade, and can generally do the same to M-Kiricorn.  In situations where Beliaddon loses to M-Kiricorn, it is most likely because M-Kiricorn used EQ, which Disenchant does nothing to protect against.  Disenchant is honestly kind of useless; Fairy isn't a commonly used type outside of Fairies themselves, and Fairies that can beat Beliaddon have ways to do so that get around Disenchant anyways.

The problem with going full tank on Beliaddon is that Beliaddon lacks recovery outside of RestTalk, meaning that you might as well run some Attack EVs since the extra longevity is ultimately going to mean little.  Running Attack EVs on the Bulk Up set will also be good since it will allow Beliaddon to get more bang for his buck when he Bulk Ups.

Beliaddon's best item is Choice Band imo because Beliaddon isn't the type of mon who likes to stick around.  It likes to force switches with Intimidate and it's raw power in order to generate momentum for it's team.  Generally, Beliaddon will be switched out on the turn the opponent switches in order to swing the momentum in your favor, or it will attack and possibly knock the opposing switchin out if the Beliaddon player predicts correctly.  After the initial turn, your opponent will most likely have a way to kill Beliaddon, meaning that the Beliaddon player will want to switch out.  Becuase Beliaddon generally employs this hit-and-run style, Choice Band is a perfect match since you will generally only attack once before switching anyways, meaning that you don't need to worry about not being able to switch attacks.

Scarf is a good item on Beliaddon for several reasons.  Firstly, it can catch the opposing switch in off guard.  With Choice Scarf, max speed Beliaddon can outspeed anything that is slower than base 130, meaning that would-be counters that would normally be able to outspeed Beliaddon will no longer be able to do so.  This can allow Beliaddon to cheese kills with ease, sniping things your opponent assumed would be able to outspeed and kill Beliaddon, such as Focus Blast Antarki and Yatagaryu.  Secondly, Choice Scarf is absolutely terrifying on Defiant Beliaddon.  With 778 Attack and 393 Speed, a Defiant Beliaddon with an attack boost under it's belt will most likely outright win you the game with little effort.

While Flare Blitz's recoil is nasty, remember that Beliaddon has base 115 HP, meaning that it has 434 HP at max.  With 434 HP, Flare Blitz recoil won't be very detrimental to Beliaddon as long as the mon you Flare Blitzed doesn't have too much HP themselves.

I hope my reasoning made sense, and I'm happy to help make improvements.  We need these analyses to be the best they can possibly be in order for the competitive Uranium scene to grow.  Keep up the good work

Based on your comments an advice, I have updated the guide to reflect the new information and suggestions you have presented to me. Any further advice and criticism would also be greatly appreciated~ Big Grin !

Oh, and Beliaddon has a form of recovery outside of ResTalk. Its Drain Punch, a decently power move that restore your health to around half the damage you damage you dealt with the move. Given how much power it has, that amount of recovery is certainly not small.
Sure, Drain Punch exists, but Beliaddon doesn't get STAB off of it, meaning that it only has a BP of 75.  If you aren't hitting for super effective with Drain Punch, you are probably dealing hardly any damage, and therefore healing even less HP.  As such, Drain Punch isn't a reliable source of healing imo.  Looking at the new sets, I would suggest Defiant as an option for any set other than the tanky one.  Also, I think that Flare Blitz should be an option alongside Infernal Blade for the Scarf set, and Infernal Blade should replace Flare Blitz entirely on the SubPunch set since Beliaddon will already be losing HP to substitute.  Earthquake should be an option as well on the SubPunch set in place of Drain Punch for reasons I mentioned earlier (and because Focus Punch makes Drain Punch obsolete by being twice as strong).  Finally, Life Orb isn't a good idea on SubPunch for the same reason Flare Blitz isn't (sub damage).  Thanks for making the changes, the guide feels a lot more complete now.
Guide has been updated again, based on your helpful advice. Maybe I should send you drafts of my guides, so that you can catch any mistakes I can make in the future.
Like the wind, I come and go as I please... but I am always there to provide a comforting breeze.

Member of Team PUNishment. Pun-pare for Struggle, make it Double Team!

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Messages In This Thread
Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-23-2016, 06:05 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Spiritmon - 09-23-2016, 06:44 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-23-2016, 08:37 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by tarutaru - 09-23-2016, 09:37 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-24-2016, 12:44 AM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Spiritmon - 09-24-2016, 12:58 AM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Spiritmon - 09-23-2016, 11:36 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-27-2016, 09:54 AM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-27-2016, 08:42 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-27-2016, 09:16 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-27-2016, 09:36 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-27-2016, 10:00 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-27-2016, 10:26 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Beliaddon - by Lord Windos - 09-28-2016, 10:11 PM

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