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Competitive Guide: Dunsereph
#15
I'm considering your analysis on Dunseraph a finished work and not one in progress so allow me to react on any little detail I feel like reacting on. While reading I didn't agree with everything you wrote there, I'll explain why.



General observations
- Spelling and grammar. That bothered me a bit.

- Too many slashed options in your sets don't really help prove Dunseraph's versatility. Versatility comes from the number of options it can use effectively, not from the sheer quantity of moves boosted by Serene Grace. Additionally, I feel like some of your sets lacked purpose and were just put there for no reason. I'll explain my point further when I get to each set individually.

- Roost and Glare are compulsory moves on any Dunseraph set, I genuinely don't understand why you would forgo one or the other given their immediate and immense utility. A case could be made for Glare if one does not want to make paraflinching the main focus of their set.

- Tailwind. Is. Not. Viable. In. Single. Battles. Tailwind lasts 4 turns, including the one it was used. T1, Dunseraph uses Tailwind. T2, you switch to one of your sweepers. T3 your opponent switches into a counter while you attack for little damage. T4 you attack again or switch out. Here's how to waste Tailwind turns.

[1] No. Just no. Dunseraph has a terrible matchup against every weather inducer

and a lot of climate sweepers

- [2]Naturally pairs well with Sand teams? How?
- [3]Slow isn't a problem as even with 0 EV in Speed, once the opponent is paralyzed, Dunseraph can outspeed most relevant things (M-Inflagetah for the unboosted meta, Scarf Alpico and x2 Kiricorn). If you're worried about not being fast enough without paralysis, 176EVs with a Timid nature outspeed Timid 252 Escartress and Jolly 252 Cocancer before they have a chance to Shell Smash, and with that, classic Adamant 28 Speed Beliaddon.


Set #1
If I understand your intention correctly here, you wanted this Dunseraph to attack while letting its natural bulk do the tanking, right?
- [4]Glare. Period.
- [5]Roost. Period.
- [6]Tailwind is no good. Roost is already in the moveset. I feel like Calm Mind gives the opponent too many opportunities to find a solution to this Dunseraph; it makes it too passive while it would rather get its boosts up quickly then proceed on hitting. Nasty Plot would have been great instead but Duns does not learn it. I'd suggest Charge Beam instead, as you wouldn't be totally passive when using it. Or a less optimal option in running Metronome (the item) in conjunction with a coverage move like Flamethrower or Hex, but that comes at the expense of losing Leftovers recovery.
A possible EV spread could be Timid Nature, 32 HP / 172 SAtk / 128 SDef / 176 Spe.
176 EVs in Speed with a Timid Nature outspeed Timid 252 Escartress before it can Shell Smash. 128 EVs in Special Defense and 32 EVs in HP make sure you survive a +0 Ice Beam on the turn you Glare at it, if it chooses to attack instead of setting up, all the while making for a better counter to the likes of Contrary Chimaconda and optimizing Leftovers recovery. The rest of the EVs are put in Special Attack for greater damage. Life Orb is counterproductive since it reduces Dunseraph's staying power, forcing it to use Roost more often.
With either Charge Beam or Metronome this Dunseraph aims at staying offensive enough while doing an ok job at tanking special hits. I hope I haven't strayed too far from the offensive purpose you originally intended.



Set #2
This is one the sets whose purpose I admit I haven't completely understood. Too many slashed options, maybe. What good is a physically inclined Dunseraph when it forgoes its flinching stab move of choice, has a better Special Attack and a lackluster physical movepool (yes, I mean it. Rock Slide + Earthquake is decent but that's about it for the snake)? That's a genuine question I'm asking.
I guess running Coil + special defense investment would cover a wider range of threats, but that's for you, the maker of this set, to tell us which. And I'd probably reiterate the point I made in the previous set : Coil, just like Calm Mind, would turn Dunseraph into a passive machine that takes so long to be boosted enough that you opponent takes it down first. All in all, I think Set#1 would outclass this one in every way and isn't that much worth mentionning. Please prove me wrong.



Set#3
- EV Spreads. Dunseraph has more to gain by being specially tanky. Being able to counter prominent threats like M-Archilles, Chimaconda; and walling rarer mons like M-Dramsama, Garlikid, Jerbolta, Espeon, Antarki, Pajay, Krilvolver or Gellin is a great boon. To this end Duns should run Calm 224 HP / 32 Def / 252 SDef : Maximal special investment with optimal Leftovers recovery, rest is dumped into Defense.
Interestingly, Dunseraph has a such massive HP stat that it can be tweaked into a mixed wall. For lack of a better threshold, I agree with your second spread of 252 Defense / 252 SpDefense. With pokémon with such neat stat differences between HP and defenses, it's generally better to max out the defenses first. I'd simply change it to Calm, 32 HP / 252 Def / 224 SDef to get a Leftovers number +1.

-moves. Roost and Air Slash are compulsory here. I'd actually run both Toxic and Glare in the last slots, as there's literally nothing else Dunseraph has in store in its movepool to support its teammates. Glare helps your teammates deal with faster pokémon while Toxic puts slower and bulkier mons on a clock, typically those that dont mind paralysis that much.



Set#4
It's basically Set#1, with one move changed in Swagger. I'm not sure that really deserves a mention.



Set#5
Same, this set's invalidated by Sets #1 and #3


Set#6
Again, it's Set#1 with a weather move in the fourth slot and Cloud Nine as an ability. I guess it's somewhat useful but I have to admit I'd like to see a sample team where such a set would fit.



Other Moves
No need to list every move Dunseraph learns if you're going to invalidate half of them yourself (Thunder Wave, other electric moves, Curse, Drill Run, Spite, Pain Split, Dragon Dance, Caustic Breath...). Oh and Agility is available to Dunsparce, read the wiki. 


Too tired right now to look super deep into what mons make for good partners and checks to Dunseraph. I'd just mention that Petrifiers dont do anything for the snake, as it can exert speed control itself.


I might be blunt in the way I put things but I'm just speaking my mind so, I apologize in advance
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Messages In This Thread
Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Lord Windos - 09-11-2016, 02:31 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by CodySP - 09-11-2016, 03:28 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by tarutaru - 09-11-2016, 09:42 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Lord Windos - 09-12-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Scurra - 10-06-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Lord Windos - 10-06-2016, 08:09 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Avekyia - 04-09-2017, 07:42 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Lord Windos - 04-09-2017, 08:16 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Lord Windos - 10-02-2018, 02:09 AM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Spiritmon - 10-02-2018, 03:34 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Lord Windos - 10-02-2018, 03:52 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by shademonkey - 10-03-2018, 02:14 PM
RE: Competitive Guide: Dunsereph - by Lord Windos - 10-03-2018, 05:31 PM

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