[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

Dragon Rage isn't as much of a problem because it was originally designed that way.  Yeah, it's scary if you're really low on HP/didn't have much to begin with, but that's always been its gimmick.  Same with all those other moves, just to a more extreme degree.

The whole reason I'm pushing this is Super Fang not rolling damage doesn't appear to me to be how the move was originally intended to work in Pokerole, and it might put a lot of strain on the system as a result.  Sure, there are ways you can play around it, but doing so can have a very unhealthy effect on how you play against the SF user in question.  If you heal with a Potion, then your Potion effectiveness is halved, which means it's harder to heal the next time you get slammed by Super Fang (or just later in the day, for that matter, if all your opponent is trying to do is annoy and cripple you so you have to waste resources on healing.  Spira's probably got that exact problem atm with Hida, in fact), which means you have to spend at least one action neutralizing the threat of Super Fang in some manner (disable the move, KO the pokemon, send in the obvious Ghost type switch in...), which generally gives the SF user more momentum.  If you Evade, you need to have enough dice to outdo that accuracy pool, and Evading is a hard, all or nothing thing to achieve which can be easily exploited if your opponent gets to Evade happy (and SF isn't an easy move to avoid since it only has -1 accuracy).

I'm not considering other move effects because all Super Fang does is damage, and I'm not including crits because crits aren't always a reliable thing, and I'm not including SE damage because I'm putting the example in a vacuum.  If you're using Super Fang, your softening up your target so you can either KO them or reduce their HP without KOing them, and doing 4+ damage isn't meant to be a reliable thing in the original system without exploiting weaknesses or having incredibly powerful attacks.  If all you want from an attack is raw damage, then anything else is just a bonus.


I'm not sure using Lapis is necessarily a good example of outplaying your opponent, given that not many trainers are going to be prepared to suddenly be facing a pokemon with over 20 HP.  Yeah, you outtanked someone by using one of the bulkiest pokemon in the game.  The strategy was sound, but the outcome wasn't exactly surprising.



I've said it twice already, but I'm saying it again: I'm fine with whatever Iron rules on this.  But I'm stating my opinion and what evidence I have to support it here so that the decision can be informed.  Rolling damage or not, it's not going to be hard to remember which ruling we're using.

Mate, its clear we both have different positions on Super Fang, and at this point we are talking past each other. I want Super Fang as is because its more useful, fun, and is generally not a problem for anyone if prepared for (I'm all about 'The onus is on the attackie, not attacker'). Your stance is Super Fang is too powerful as it is, and needs to be reworked so that there is no risk of it breaking the system or becoming overcentralizing. We have polar opposite viewpoints, and since debating with each other isn't doing anything, we might as well just....stop it.

I'll bring up a few last points, though, just for the sake of completeness.

- One Super Fang can be matched or outdone by High Damaging Moves, even if we disregard all the factors that can make HDMs more potent. Two Super Fangs will never be as effect compared to two-three HMDs, and against low HP Pokemon its straight up better to just go with HMDs to have the chance to deal more than 1/2 HP.
- Super Fang being overcentralizing argument could also be applied to Priority Moves in general, as well as HP Recovery Moves, Always Accurate Moves Damage Buffs like Nasty Plot, Tutored Moves/TMs, and Flinching/Sleep hax. Priority ignores Initiatives and can apply Pain ASAP, HP Recovery Moves ignores Potion Effectiveness and can make Pokemon more tanky than they normally would be, Always Accurate means you literally don't have to worry about the Accuracy Dice unless Pain or Evasion would make them relevant, Damage/Dice Buffs will almost always be used ASAP to gain semi perma advantage for an Encounter, Tutored Moves/TMs grant Pokemon Moves grant Moves that overcome their inherent weaknesses/limitations to make them well rounded, and Flinching/Sleep in general just takes away Actions on the inflicted part, the later so much so that it was reworked so that the Sleep Roll is done before their every Action instead of at the end of Round. All the above can be argued to be 'too powerful' , but in the end they are in fact perfectly okay, balanced, and ultimately not detrimental to the game on a whole, as I believe Super Fang to be as well.
- As I briefly mentioned beforehand, Super Fang is essentially an OHKO Move that only halves HP instead of taking away all of it, and with a lesser Accuracy Penalty as a benefit for that. Since Iron gave the a-okay for OHKO despite them strictly speaking being even more 'broken' within the limits he defined for their legal use, then Super Fang by all rights should be afforded the same leeway.
-I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but if SF is 'too good' as it is now, just nerf its Accuracy by 3 or 4, giving it - 4 or - 5 Accuracy like Zap Cannon/Inferno/Dynamic Punch (Which are pretty dang good like SF too). If the Accu is so low that you can't reliably use it/use it at ALL in a chain of Actions larger than 2 or 3, then the Super Fang users are taking a risks and giving the opponents more Actions they are to pull of their plan of action. Which, in essence, is a downside that would 'balance' out SF, making its usage either limited, situational, or both, but not defeat its purpose like rolling out its Damage would.

That's all I have to say about this topic, and I'll restate my stance the last time: Don't change Super Fang, or only change it in ways that doesn't undermine it completely. I'm fine with Iron's ruling of the Move as is, and don't have a keen appreciation on it changing, nor others pseudo advocating its change by presenting evidence that makes Super Fang look worse of a problem that it really is. Which is why I felt the need to present my own arguments and evidence in order to make sure Super Fang has support for its current version, and so that your argument was not the only thing influencing its final fate in a course that would see it made obsolete .