[Meta thread] Lord Windos' PokeRole Adventure : Celadon City Vandels

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

I'll make sure to create an epilogue thread later, yes.  Not now, though.

Before that...a little constructive criticism, if I may.

First off...

The Story: As soon as Zuryk showed up, I was almost certain that I wasn't going to like him in the slightest, tbh.

...sometimes I hate it when I'm right.  From that point on, it felt like I had a lot less agency in the choices I could make story wise.  And I was already strapped for time as it was!  The fact that Reiner was obligated to help even though he'd never asked to be involved nor was looking for some kind of grand reward from a god...you get the picture.  It was a recipe for a bad time.

Given the original scope of this game was a simple, grounded game that followed the adventures of a Team Rocket Grunt that was in the position to become an Executive...it felt like it had definitely lost sight of that original goal around that point (even though there had been setup before then).

In addition, going back to the very start of it all, I was reminded of this line at the start of the meta thread:

No magic or supranatural powers are present in this setting, besides the ones exhibited by Pokémon . Wizards be gone. Psychics, Meduims, and other strange Trainers exist , but your character can't be one.

...reading that kinda left a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth, to be honest.

Now, that's not to say that the story that did develop wasn't decent, but...I wasn't prepared for it to become what it did.  In terms of the original scope of the game, I REALLY wanted to focus on my character's personal goals, at least in a short term sense.  The Cursed Arms...kinda got in the way of that at times.

I also feel like that a lot of the events could have still happened in some capacity even without the CAs being involved.  Romeo and Juliet?  Oh yeah, insane couple.  Perfectly reasonable on its own (though the kids probably would have served a different role).  I was down with participating in that simply because it was an easy way for Reiner to look like he wasn't up to any shady business.  Riza?  Well...she wouldn't have been a bug woman...and hopefully not a 'vampire'.  Main reason I was considering getting involved in that originally was the same as the R and J reasoning.  The NRF?  Unless we would have had a compelling reason to go there besides the CA, we probably wouldn't have even touched the place.  No person in their right mind would have wanted to go to a location like that, after all.

The surprise with Clair was alright in my books.  If she hadn't been related to Reiner, though, I might have taken Reiner in a faaaaaarrrrrr different direction than I did.  Being related to someone important (or multiple someones) and having a family name to live up to instead of being a plain ol' mischief maker definitely changes your outlook on things somewhat.

I was surprised the Mew thing was resolved as early as it was, but I think the campaign turned out all the better for it.  Same with Emily.

Giratina: I honestly still don't entirely understand why exactly this happened.  Or why it had to.  I mean, it's been generally beneficial, but...why?  Were it not for the massive part that Giratina played in the Clair encounter, I'd say her inclusion was a little unnecessary so far as the overall plot is concerned as well.

Events in General: It often felt like there was too much to do because there was always something happening.  A little downtime in-game would have been nice and relaxing for everyone involved, tbh.

The difficulty: well, this was certainly a challenging campaign, I can definitely say that.  It was brutal at times, but you did your best to make it rather fair.  The NRF was probably the one area where I felt the difficulty spiked little too much, however.  Nuclear pokemon are a tricky thing to balance, after all, but facing large horde after large horde of them is what really illustrates just how terrifying they can be.  All the encounters that Reiner was in felt more like they were bordering on being on the HARD side of moderate, simply because Nuclear is such a difficult type to prepare for.

I hope Shadow Pokemon don't pose as much of an issue in the future, particularly if every single attack they use becomes and is required to be Lethal on top of being super effective against everything except other Shadow Pokemon...that could very quickly become a massacre, and I don't think anyone will want to be on the receiving end of it unless they're prepared...not even the games are that brutal with the interpretation, and the main villain's goal in Colosseum was to basically hold blood sport type pokemon battles between Shadow Pokemon!  *shudder*


Overall: despite all my various gripes with some of the stuff that has happened, I did enjoy participating, relatively speaking.  I really appreciate that you worked with me on integrating the details of Reiner's story into the campaign's story once it shifted into more of a narrative instead of a challenge game.  As a narrative, though, it could have certainly used a little polish and/or focus for the original intent.  As a challenge game, the only real gripe I had was the NRF thanks to hordes of overwhelming Nuclear pokemon being difficult to deal with in general, and thus artificially inflating the difficulty.

That being said, let's see if we can't fix some of this later should a sequel happen, yeah?

Gotcha! We all need a little break from my campaign, me included!

....Oh my, what a well thought out and eloquent criticism you bring to me! Welp, since you took the time to make it, its only fair for me to address it all!

Story: |
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Zuryk: ....Yeah, letting them come to the forefront of my story was a mistake, I admit. Them butting into events and livening things up was allowed on my part because I honestly wanted to keep raising the stakes of the story and building the drama/excitement/tension, and what better way to do that was let them create another Plotline/Goal with supernatural angle and equally fantastical challanges/Fights for Reiner/Arial to face? Well, several and many, in fact, but....I really didn't think of them at the time, and/or just allowed whatever wild idea I had to happen without much consideration for its consequences. I though you/Reiner would enjoy that, since it gave you a more 'Epic' Goal to follow alongside your main one, but I didn't anticipate that you'd end up loathing it because of that very fact. Zuryk's......attitude towards you two didn't help matters either. Oy vie....

Oh, you wound me so, Windos! Didn't my inclusion bring some much needed spice and flair to an otherwise drab dab tale that would have slowly spiraled into mediocrity, when you inevitably ran out of ideas to keep the plot fresh, interesting, and engaging? Even if my bubbly personality may not be to the drake's liking - such a shame that is, for him to posses such dour taste - being angry and having motivations is better than having neither, hmm? I do think that you and Dragonstrike doth protest too much, me thinks, hehehehe!

.....*Sighs* Shut up, Zuryk. I could have just kept things simple (relatively speaking) and still made a good story, but I just......let things get away from me. Partially that's do to the fact that beyond the basic premise and a few scenes/Encounters scattered throughout the campaign, I planned nothing in advance. Its no surprise in retrospect that things ended up becoming a wacky and derailed mess, and even more surprising that despite that it actually managed to still turn out somewhat decent.

Hehehe.....are you admitting that, perhap, perhaps you didn't do as good of a job as you could, because of your own inadequency and lack of restraint, in both story telling and game design? Looks like we have a new George Lucas and John Romero in the making, everyone!

.....Do you have anything else to say that isn't incendiary and actually helpful. Because if you don't, I say again, but with emphasis: fucking cram it.

 I do, in fact, and it is thus: The next time you build a wonderful little world for your friends or others to play it, perhaps it would be best to focus less attention and work on the setting and stage, and more to the actual performance that will take place. Loathe or crticize me all you like, my detractors, but I did and have done what Lord Windos hardly was able to do himself, but better: Provide a plotline, goal, and payoff for Reiner and Arial, and set appropriate challenges they may overcome, through wit or brawn. Dragonstrike and Reiner may have chaffed at being 'shackled' like so, but it gave them more they could work towards that they could have then put towards their main objectives. 

Alas, though, they could not learn to cope under my tender ministrations and continued to snarl and struggle against the fetters that could empower them if they had only to adapt and persevere, and had to get you to bail them out by having you deal with me instead, which has had some, dare I say, lovely consequences for your entire universe at large. Ones that neither you or myself can entirely shield the dear little drake from, and will no doubt prove to be quite......exciting when they reach their peek potential. 

Perhaps I was too harsh and teasing towards both drakes, and could have made things breezy enough to suite their delicate sensibilities, but I can also say they never really gave me a chance either, and did everything they could to demonstrate such contempt. If I am only to be meet with apathy or disdain by someone, is it not fair for me to give back in equal or greater measure? 

Though, I will admit that escalating the feud between us was partly for my amusement, as the little drake and his player just have the best reactions possible when angry. How could I resist egging their tempers on, when they produced such amazing result? Hehehehe!

At least Arial and Spiritmon were and still are good enough sports to appreciate me and what I've done for them, and we get along fantastically as a result. You only have to look at my many interactions with them to prove that my way of weaving a tale has great merit to it, as well as just simply being polite to one such as myself. Ah, but as I said to Dragonstrike, hindsight can be such a pain.

......Is that all?

It is indeed!

Then quit interrupting me, and leave.

Very well. I have made my points, and you can not deny they hold some veracity. Hold them in content and contest them, yes, but never deny they are without value. Good bye for now, everyone~

........Moving on.

I believe one of my biggest mistakes in creating this story was introducing the Cursed Arms. They ended up creating the majority of the disruption of the campaign's original premise, as they fantastical nature, backstory, and sheer impact ended up warping and gravitating everything around them. Had I just simply kept Mamudo Eclispe a Unique Revolver and not made it into a CA, I believe the story would have not only ended up a lot better, but it would have been over much quicker too without nearly as much pointless drama. Another lesson that I needed to learn: keep things simple and true to what you started out with, especially if you don't have a definite plot-line in place to guide you/the players through.

.....Yeah, that line of mine in the beginning makes me wince every time I'm reminded of it, along with make me give a self depreciating chuckle. Oh, how much have things wavered.....

'Fun' Fact: Originally, Romeo and Juliet didn't have a Cursed Arm, but I decided that the TPK would be fit right in with them, both to explain their Insanity and increase their general threat level/give Arial a Cursed Arm like he/Spiritmon wanted. From that perspective it worked out well for him, but not for Reiner/you Dragonstrike.

The Vampire was also a completely different character before I introduced the Cursed Arms. Originally, they were a male Insane Psychopathic Serial Killer that believed they were a Vampire (and a refined/'Noble' one, at that), and therefore model himself after one and killed women to drink/take their blood and 'embrace' his nature. He had a Crobat and Gliscor at the very least (I probably would have also added other Bat/Blood and/or Life Drinking Pokemon), and would have some point either have Encounter Reiner to fight/banter with them or the two ignoring each other entirely. Now that I think about it, I also would have made a proper 'lair' for OG Vampire too, which would have been a mini-dungeon of sorts with traps and 'tamed' wild Pokemon that like his style.

Then the CA got involved, and I had the idea to make The Vampire Chara the Bug CA Use Riza Bete, as the CA's effects and the Bug Pokemon she had put a neat twist on the traditional Vampire setup. Bugs are considered life eating pests, after all, so why not expand on the idea. Given the consequences of that massive revision, I'm fairly happy with the change (As is Arial/Spiritmon, no doubt!), but I more than understand that was more to do with actually decent story telling between me/them than it having anything to do with the actual CAs. Perhaps I could have still made Riza without their inclusion, but definitely not the way she turned out.

Clair was always intended to be a Boss Battle to happen on Friday and being related to Reiner, as how could I resist the opportunity to expand and use more of his background to make both his story and my campaign better? The outcome of said encounter, though......yeeeeaaaah, that was terrible. I should have handled it MUCH better than I could, as having to get Giratina to fix that mess really demonstrate how much I fucked up there. And the consequences of her help......darn it all. I should have just made it so that she just lost but couldn't help Reiner out afterwards, but instead I decided that letting her go FULL DRAGON and force Reiner to take her down, which lead to Mew going ballistic and then comatose and then sociopathic......bloody hell, I really mismanaged that. Damn, damn, and damn it.

In regard to Reiner's character change from Goon -> Principled Renegade ......that threw me for a loop, as I expect him to keep adhering to TR's dogma and become an Executive, or join up with Valarie and take them on. You deciding to strike it out on your own early on (or making those signals, at least) put me into a bind/panic, and I believe that is what in part motivated me to create/implement the CAs, as they were a means to create another plotline I could put you/him on and steer them through the rest of the campaign. Needless to say.....that didn't work.

Similarly, the NRF didn't exist until I rolled out Sekmet for Arial. I had to come up for a reason why their would be a fully Evolved Natural Nucmon in Celadon, so one thing lead to another and bam! Bonus/Not-so-Bonus Dungeon appeared! The guy that was friend was a Researcher trying to smuggle Sekmet out of his place of work to sell on the black market, he ended up getting fried by it, and Sekmet claimed that part of Celadon City as her territory. Crazy how just one Pokemon could have added so much, huh?

I didn't expect you to get Mew that early either (or possibly at all), but your choices and interactions with it lead to that happening, so I just decided to make it an early Boss Encounter with its difficulty scaled down for you (as its regular difficulty would be waaaay too much for anyone to fight fairly). Simple as that!

Giratina: ....I honestly don't know why she fell for Reiner either, so your guess is good as any.

Oh, that was my doing, actually! I let Giratina know all about the little drake shortly after receiving Mamudo Eclispe, she did her own research and investigation about him that involved witnessing his entire life and struggles - her powers of Distortion and its application on Time is such a lovely thing to behold - and she ended up COMPLETELY, utterly, and irrevocably  smitten with him. I originally let her know about him as a fair warning and to convince her not to act against him, since that Cursed Arm could summon her Reaper for him and he had already broken the laws of life and death once by that point I told her, and I didn't want her to enact the most unsettling retribution on the poor drake's SOUL for doing either. 

After seeing her form her first crush on him, though......well, I thought I would help encourage such feelings by setting you two up. Partly because I wanted to see what would happen and develop from such a relationship, and partly to as a combination safety and early reward for the drake becoming my servant. What better way to ensure his success and good fortune in his duties and beyond, than to pair them up with The Goddess of Death, Rebellion, and Distortions? And indeed, it so far has worked out terrifically for the two, and I expect things to improve.

Your welcome, Dragonstrike~

.....Of bloody course its their fault. *Sighs* ......Moving on.

Events in General: Uh......honestly, that was entirely my intention. I made a bunch of stuff/Encounters within a given thing so that you and Spiritmon always had something to engage and have fun with, and though that any lull would just end up grinding the game to a halt and boring/irritating either of you. Oops. Well, now that I know about this, I can make sure this problem doesn't happen intentionally in the future. Sorry!

Difficulty: Glad that one of my principle design decisions panned out more often good than not! I figured that if I was going to be doing a side campaign, I wanted it to be distinct from Iron's, and one way of doing that was increasing the power level of everyone in it, player and NPC alike. I think I over and underdid it in some cases, but on the whole I think I did a good job with this aspect of the game....

....except for the NRF. Truth be told, I expected everyone to buy a HUGE amount of healing supplies and anti Nucmon measures (and have more anti-swarm measures/counters), since I DID hype up the NRF as a DANGER STRANGER place and made it that way on purpose. When nobody did that, though...well, I knew things we're going to suck on some level for everyone. Not to the point where it required me to DRASTICALLY fix things to make for a better gaming experience for you/Spiritmon (That hit me quite hard to learn you didn't like the way the game was going), but I knew shit was going to hit the fan. It forced me to have to redesign The Clinic and try to railroad you into there so that everyone could get properly kitted out for the dangers up ahead, but.....well, The Big Fix happened, and totally scrapped my dungeon entirely. I spent a modest amount of time designing everything, so having to do that in order to bring order and happiness once more bummed me out for awhile, but I carried on anyway, as I was my responsibility to make sure you were going to have a good time first and foremost.

Still.....I would like it if someday you/Spiritmon ended up playing through The NRF again via the CYOA, especially since I/Likjr have made to balances things more in your favor, but I understand if you don't ever want anything to do with the place again. Maybe I can make a short campaign centered around the place someday for everyone to plan for better and play.....hmm........

And that's everything addressed to a hopefully reasonably degree, plus some extra trivia! I'm really glad you ended up having a somewhat positive opinion about my campaign as a whole, even if you have some rightly justified bitter feelings about the way I handled certain aspects of it. I enjoyed working with you too with Reiner's backstory/lore, as I believe my player's characters should not only be fully fleshed out but properly integrated and immersed into a given game world, and I just like character building in general. Thank you for making Reiner such a nuanced person, and letting me help with it!

I'll be sure to fix all the issue in my game/story/world building that are now apparent to me, and I promise to improve as a game master in general. I also will say to not ever hesitate to call me out for a decision I make if you think its a bit too jarring or you find weird or troublesome, as I need to learn what is/isn't good for the story and/or my players and make necessary changes, or at the very least explain why I make such decisions so that we're all on the same page.

If you have anymore criticism for me, feel free to keep piling it on, even if its mean and/or hurtful! That goes for you too, Spiritmon!