[Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery

[Spiritmon]

I'm struggling to make sense of how everyone is reacting to Covid-19, honestly.

Phantom made a thread in Anything Goes if you want to talk about the current events irl in more detail, though.  Let's not start a long discussion about it here, please.

Be gladly you don't need to live in Brazil. I trying to understand how people are reacting to this world crisis. And failing miserable. And I live here! 

Anyway...when your campaign begun, you gonna use this same Meta Thread or you create a different Meta Thread?

[Dragonstrike]

Anyway...when your campaign begun, you gonna use this same Meta Thread or you create a different Meta Thread?

Gonna be a brand new one! That's going to be where I'll put the link to the character sheet, too.

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

- Hmmmm...rereading through the rules, I think I see how Evasion was intended to work in the system.  And the interpretation of Evasion in Skull Ruins is the closest to it.  The only part of it that wasn't following the book's interpretation was the 'action delay' that Iron adopted.  Not needing to declare exactly what your actions are going to be at the start of the Round is what differentiates IRL Pokerole from Play-by-Post Pokerole.

In the end, I honestly didn't really like the version of Evasion that I tried, as it felt a little too restricted in what kind of characters could use it and when, so I think I'll go back to using an interpretation similar to SR's when my main game starts up.

- Clash operates under the same mechanics, just with the added restriction of requiring a move to be used.

- As for Cover, I think I'll continue with a similar idea to what I proposed last.  Covering an Ally will require an action from the one doing the Covering (but not from the one being Covered), while natural cover (like the stalagmites in the Dragonair fight) won't require an action to hide behind (but it may be destructible at my discretion) due to the nature of movement around the battlefield being mostly automatic in the context of the game's rules.

Moral of the story: if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.  These mechanics are similar to how Iron ran SR, which is similar to the book and similar to how I'd like to run the game, so let's just stick with what's already been written in the book and practiced in other games on this forum when it comes to these mechanics (for the most part).

This'll probably also be easier to understand for any new players that join since the majority of the reading they'll need to do will be in the corebook itself.

And if you don't like how those mechanics are going to work, then that's perfectly fine!  You're not required to use them or invest in their relevant stats, after all.

---------------------------------------------------

Now that I've worked that out, I think I'm almost ready to release the character sheets and get started on character creation in preparation for the game.  Just gotta put some finishing touches on the sheet, write up some instructions, maybe work on the Meta Thread post a little, and wait for responses from possible new players.

May not happen right away, but we're getting closer to starting!

Oh goodie, some feedback and updates on your next campaign ! Time ask some questions about them, then!

- What do you mean by 'Action Delay' , in the context of what an Evasion causes to an set of Actions? And will Evasion still be spammable in your next game?

- Is the Cover granted by an Pokemon persistent upon an Action being 'spent' on it, or does the Pokemon providing Cover have to keep spending Actions for every Action another Pokemon uses them as Cover/they're trying to Cover?

- And what about the Healing System? And the Action Mechanics? What direction are you going for with it overall?

Judging from what's already been said, I believe I'll probably elect not to use the revised systems for the mechanics you listed, and I'll leave it at that.

----

Splendorous! I'll be eagerly awaiting that day, then! When that happens, just PM me when you want to start talks about what my new character is going to be !

[Dragonstrike]

Oh goodie, some feedback and updates on your next campaign ! Time ask some questions about them, then!

- What do you mean by 'Action Delay' , in the context of what an Evasion causes to an set of Actions? And will Evasion still be spammable in your next game?

- Is the Cover granted by an Pokemon persistent upon an Action being 'spent' on it, or does the Pokemon providing Cover have to keep spending Actions for every Action another Pokemon uses them as Cover/they're trying to Cover?

- And what about the Healing System? And the Action Mechanics? What direction are you going for with it overall?

Judging from what's already been said, I believe I'll probably elect not to use the revised systems for the mechanics you listed, and I'll leave it at that.

- Let's say your first two actions of 4 in SR were to evade two hits from a Twineedle.  If ya do that and then attack as a third action, Iron wouldn't roll out the third action until everyone had taken both their first and second.  It's more noticeable in Doubles, when not everyone was using multi-hit attacks, and it felt weird to me that the pokemon would basically just be standing there, waiting for their turn after using/dodging a multi-hit move at the start of the Round while everyone else is attacking as normal.  That's not how a battle flows.  Maybe Iron did that because it was easier to keep track of, but it honestly discouraged me from using multi action moves unless they were my final action for the Round.

The short of it is: expect Evasion rules more like SR's, but without that delay.  Which means yes, Evasion will be spammable, as per the base rules.

- How long granting cover will last is likely partially gonna be case by case.  If the mon has no need to move (usually if they attack mainly with ranged moves), then they can grant cover for longer.  If they need to keep moving (evade, contact moves, etc), then the cover will be lost when they do.  Gonna try and use common sense here and also make it clear when cover is and isn't active when it's being used.

- Trying to keep it simple (particularly for new players) and stick to the base rules in 1.2.5 for the most part, so most of the mechanics I used/changed from our other games in MCM will be staying.  I may change my mind on action costs later (if I do, before PMD: PS), but I'll let you know if that happens.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

I'm by now certain which 'Mon I want Kee to become for PrimalShadows, it's even been approved and allowed!~ So happy about that. (⌒▽⌒)☆

- Hmmmm...rereading through the rules, I think I see how Evasion was intended to work in the system.  And the interpretation of Evasion in Skull Ruins is the closest to it.  The only part of it that wasn't following the book's interpretation was the 'action delay' that Iron adopted.  Not needing to declare exactly what your actions are going to be at the start of the Round is what differentiates IRL Pokerole from Play-by-Post Pokerole.

In the end, I honestly didn't really like the version of Evasion that I tried, as it felt a little too restricted in what kind of characters could use it and when, so I think I'll go back to using an interpretation similar to SR's when my main game starts up.

- Clash operates under the same mechanics, just with the added restriction of requiring a move to be used. (...)

So, to clarify, will clashing be any different than it worked in the TestGame or won't it? I quite enjoy this mechanic of clashing AND it fits my chara nicely, so I aim to use it whenever possible. The way it's been handled in TestGame was and is actually just fine, would be nice if it'll work just the same.

[Dragonstrike]

So, to clarify, will clashing be any different than it worked in the TestGame or won't it? I quite enjoy this mechanic of clashing AND it fits my chara nicely, so I aim to use it whenever possible. The way it's been handled in TestGame was and is actually just fine, would be nice if it'll work just the same.

It'll work the same, I'm just dropping the extra requirement on the initiative order that we tried so that there's more opportunities to use it.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Oh cool, that'll make clashing more funfunfun~

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

- Let's say your first two actions of 4 in SR were to evade two hits from a Twineedle.  If ya do that and then attack as a third action, Iron wouldn't roll out the third action until everyone had taken both their first and second.  It's more noticeable in Doubles, when not everyone was using multi-hit attacks, and it felt weird to me that the pokemon would basically just be standing there, waiting for their turn after using/dodging a multi-hit move at the start of the Round while everyone else is attacking as normal.  That's not how a battle flows.  Maybe Iron did that because it was easier to keep track of, but it honestly discouraged me from using multi action moves unless they were my final action for the Round.

The short of it is: expect Evasion rules more like SR's, but without that delay.  Which means yes, Evasion will be spammable, as per the base rules.


- How long granting cover will last is likely partially gonna be case by case.  If the mon has no need to move (usually if they attack mainly with ranged moves), then they can grant cover for longer.  If they need to keep moving (evade, contact moves, etc), then the cover will be lost when they do.  Gonna try and use common sense here and also make it clear when cover is and isn't active when it's being used.


- Trying to keep it simple (particularly for new players) and stick to the base rules in 1.2.5 for the most part, so most of the mechanics I used/changed from our other games in MCM will be staying.  I may change my mind on action costs later (if I do, before PMD: PS), but I'll let you know if that happens.

- ....So the jist is that Evasion is not going to be treated as an Move Action, but more of a mechanical effect like Clash that comboes with regular Actions? Like, if you Evade a Move, you could still launch an Attack Move after the Evasion within the same 'Action Set', but with an higher Action Cost of the Attack Move as if it were just perform as a 2nd Action (Essentially, Evasion don't take up an Action, but DO drive up the Action Cost of the 'next' Action)? Or in the example you provided, those two hits from Twineedle would be treated as a compressed Single Action for both the Attacker and Target, so they (either Pokemon) could immediately use another Action as if it were their next one without delay as if it were there 2nd one, but presumably with the Higher Action cost associated with that Move being technically their 3rd Action and onwards (And there for Allow more Evasions until they run into the 5 Action Limit)?

That sounds.....confusing and complicated, to put it bluntly. I always assumed that the whole 'waiting around' thing after a Pokemon does a Mult-Hit Move or Evades one is because doing either is really exhausted from doing either and the user/Evader is forced to rest for those Actions, and didn't think of it as bad even if I were on the receiving end of that myself (since I never noticed or complained about it until you pointed it out). Changing Evasion to....whatever functionality you're suggesting seems to me then unnecessary, doubly so if it would allow more Evasion shenanigans like what happened in the Weavile Fight in any way or variation. As you said it yourself, if it ain't exactly broken, I don't see much of a reason to go fixing it, especially when it could end up creating new problems and frustrating players.

As for the whole 'Sitting Duck' aspect of using/Evading Multi-Hit Moves, I thought that was sort of the trade off of doing either? Like, the point of Multi-Hit Moves is to try and do a HUGE chunk of Damage to a Target in order to Faint them or seriously cripple them to the point it makes no difference before they could react, so leaving yourself open to retaliation should a Target endure the assault or if their is another foe around that can ruthlessly exploit your current 'weakness' was a logical counter balance to them ? Changing the way either Multi-Hit or Evasion Action work to be more 'realistic' like your suggestion would just make either more powerful and annoying to deal with if the Target could just keep Attacking/Evading after such rapid assaults/dodging, or at least that seems that way to me. Maybe in practice the new system your proposing wouldn't be nearly as bad as I think it'd be, but until I see such evidence I will remain quite skeptical about these new changes to Evasion....

- Fair enough way to handling Giving Cover, though that still doesn't entice me to use the revised mechanics of it. An Action spent providing cover is better off Evading, Clashing, or just Attacking generally speaking, or at least it is in my eyes. That, and the more something is a hassle to get maximum use out of , the less I want to use it unless the payoff is THAT good to put up with the hassle (Which trying to make Cover after a Pokemon uses an Action to 'create it' persist isn't)

- Then I suppose whatever Pokemon I end up getting will NOT be wasting any XP on Normal Recovery Moves, so thanks for clearing that up! Better stock up on extra Healing Items then to make up for that, or invest in a Pokemon with practical Healing via their Ability!

[Dragonstrike]

Determining what happens when in the Round is my job, so I wouldn't worry about the Evasion mechanics too much if I were you.  It'll hopefully make more sense in practice.

[Spiritmon]

Just a little questions Dragon: Is there any move you want to change effects? And Healing moves like Heal Pulse will use Will Points or gonna be used by normal rolls like Skull Ruins and Celadon?