Competitive Guide: Nucleon

[Lord Windos]

Baton Pass not working as expect? It seems that regular staple of regular Pokémon are not doing as well as I hoped, but all I can ask is that the devs fix this issue at some point, along with myriad others.

What Hidden Power typing you want depends on what you need to counter. HP Fire has quite a lot of type coverage, destroys common Steels like Metalynx and S-51A, and has no chance of being nullified by other types, but is impotent against the common Water and Fire types that roam the upper limits. HP Fighting destroys Athan, Diakatuna, and maims Tracton, and can deal with many other types as well, but its outright nullified by two types (Ghost and Fighting), hits S-51A neutrally, and leaves it in a bad position against Flying/Psychic types. The ultimately comes down to what you are worried about the most (For Nucleon and its team).

Synchronize is a curious choice for HA Nucleon. As you mentioned, it has some utility as the penultimate Uranium counter move, which combined with BP and Wish/Toxic/Half-Life can make life especially hard for the opponent. On the other hand, it has to sacrifice 1 or 2 of its primary moves to run such a set, and ends up making the green demon more of a passive encounter, rather than a full on threat. Plus, Sync. can be countered just by switch to Dark/ Non-Nuclear types, so an opponent can use the opportunity to set up on it if they figure out what Nucleon is running. Its a decent possibility, but given HA Nucleon lackluster performance, decent might not be good enough for it...

Those are my two cent of the matter. Any more thoughts on Nucleon will certainly appreciated; its not like the Comp section is bustling with activity atm...

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

(...) its not like the Comp section is bustling with activity atm...

You know, I still wonder a little where they all went. It's like they all decided to collectively disappear without a trace, leaving barely any reminder behind that there once was activity. Is that some sort of mass-conspiracy? Did they - sorry for that - lost interest for some reason?

... Now, to think about that ... *tightly clings to one of your sleeve, like being afraid that you eventually run out of stamina and resistance, and abandon as well*

[Lord Windos]

(...) its not like the Comp section is bustling with activity atm...

You know, I still wonder a little where they all went. It's like they all decided to collectively disappear without a trace, leaving barely any reminder behind that there once was activity. Is that some sort of mass-conspiracy? Did they - sorry for that - lost interest for some reason?

... Now, to think about that ... *tightly clings to one of your sleeve, like being afraid that you eventually run out of stamina and resistance, and abandon as well*

*Smile, and pats Phantom's head* My friends and OTP, I'll never be far from you. If I ever decide to take leave of this place, I'll tell you so that we can keep in contact with each other.

I would write more guides, if more people actually posted and requested them. Its hard to work up the will to write a guide if you think no one will bother looking at it...

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

(...) its not like the Comp section is bustling with activity atm...

You know, I still wonder a little where they all went. It's like they all decided to collectively disappear without a trace, leaving barely any reminder behind that there once was activity. Is that some sort of mass-conspiracy? Did they - sorry for that - lost interest for some reason?

... Now, to think about that ... *tightly clings to one of your sleeve, like being afraid that you eventually run out of stamina and resistance, and abandon as well*

*Smile, and pats Phantom's head* My friends and OTP, I'll never be far from you. If I ever decide to take leave of this place, I'll tell you so that we can keep in contact with each other.

I would write more guides, if more people actually posted and requested them. Its hard to work up the will to write a guide if you think no one will bother looking at it...

It feels like you strenghtened the bond we have forged over time a little more just by telling me this. Thank you... lots.


That makes sense. :C Eh, I would read new guides though if it's about a 'Mon I like, regardless of tier; and I might believe that some other people will do as well. However, if all those who actually intend to actively play in Competitive don't happen to collectively return, discussion and feedback concerning guides may be a problem...

[Iron]

I'm sure it'll all pick up if online battles are improved.

[Andyv2]

Why hasn't Choice Scarfed Actan been brought up as a counter to Nucleon? Scarfed Actan will outspeed Nucleon with 200 EVs in Speed and a Jolly Nature and will net a guaranteed KO with Knock Off if the Nucleon holds a Scarf. There is almost no reason why Nucleon wouldn't be running a speed boosting nature (Timid) and full EV investment in Speed while holding the Choice Scarf in order to outspeed the entire unscarfed meta, except for Mega Inflagetah. With those assumptions about Nucleon in mind, here are my damage calculations to substantiate this:

252 EVs in Special Attack, 252 EVs in Speed Nucleon with Timid Nature (Hidden Power Fighting) holding a Choice Scarf
   vs 200 EVs in Speed, 116 EVs in Attack Actan with Jolly Nature holding a Choice Scarf
    amounts to 77.18% to 90.99% of Actan's total health; guaranteed 2HKO.

Hidden Power Fighting is only a 2HKO, despite Actan being 4 times weak, even with optimal Special Attack investment from Nucleon against an Actan that is uninvested in Special bulk. In turn, Choice Scarfed Actan will have no problem outspeeding Scarfed Nucleon after it switches in and will net the OHKO:

200 EVs in Speed, 116 EVs in Attack Actan with Jolly Nature (Knock-Off) holding a Choice Scarf
   vs 252 EVs in Speed, 252 EVs in Defense, 4 EVs in HP Nucleon with Timid Nature holding a Choice Scarf
   amounts to 100.00% to 117.73% of Nucleon's total health; guaranteed OHKO.

FYI: A Timid Nucleon with Hidden Power Fighting and full investment in Speed ends up having a speed of 305 before getting a 1.5X boost from the Choice Scarf. A Timid Actan with the above described investment in Speed will end up having a speed of 308 before getting a 1.5X boost from the Choice Scarf.

I don't think Actan is a mediocre or niche Pokemon, unlike Geigeroach or Soundproof Paraboom. This is the only set and the bare minimum that it can use which is a true counter to Scarfed Nucleon, but there are other sets it can use to check Scarfed Nucleon and force the Nucleon user to switch out and find a replacement good enough to tank a hit from Iron Head, Earthquake, Crunch, Knock-Off, and even Outrage.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that Nucleon isn't ban worthy. I am just aiming to shed light on a new possible strategy that can be used against Nucleon if there are people who are interested in playing a metagame where Nucleon is allowed.

P.S.: I understand that finding/catching a fully competitive Actan is like winning the lottery, but you can easily force it's Nature to be Jolly 50% of the time by bringing a Synchronize lead to its encounter and as long as its HP IVs are larger than 1, and its Special Defense IVs exactly 31, it can do it's job surviving against Hidden Power Fighting while still OHKOing and having an ideal distribution of (scarce) IVs that optimizes overall Special bulk. I guess this would take approximately 70 encounters on average (and you still have to catch the thing too, ugh...). At least it is considerably lower than the shiny odds. The fact that obtaining a counter to Nucleon that isn't niche/mediocre compared to the surrounding Pokemon in the meta is so much of a pain to do definitely solidifies Nucleon as ban necessary, if there was ever any doubt about it in the first place. Otherwise, I hope this knowledge might help make the meta a bit less suffocating for those deciding to play against it in Ubers.

[Andyv2]

Why hasn't Choice Scarfed Actan been brought up as a counter to Nucleon? Scarfed Actan will outspeed Nucleon with 200 EVs in Speed and a Jolly Nature and will net a guaranteed KO with Knock Off if the Nucleon holds a Scarf. There is almost no reason why Nucleon wouldn't be running a speed boosting nature (Timid) and full EV investment in Speed while holding the Choice Scarf in order to outspeed the entire unscarfed meta, except for Mega Inflagetah. With those assumptions about Nucleon in mind, here are my damage calculations to substantiate this:

252 EVs in Special Attack, 252 EVs in Speed Nucleon with Timid Nature (Hidden Power Fighting) holding a Choice Scarf
   vs 200 EVs in Speed, 116 EVs in Attack Actan with Jolly Nature holding a Choice Scarf
    amounts to 77.18% to 90.99% of Actan's total health; guaranteed 2HKO.

Hidden Power Fighting is only a 2HKO, despite Actan being 4 times weak, even with optimal Special Attack investment from Nucleon against an Actan that is uninvested in Special bulk. In turn, Choice Scarfed Actan will have no problem outspeeding Scarfed Nucleon after it switches in and will net the OHKO:

200 EVs in Speed, 116 EVs in Attack Actan with Jolly Nature (Knock-Off) holding a Choice Scarf
   vs 252 EVs in Speed, 252 EVs in Defense, 4 EVs in HP Nucleon with Timid Nature holding a Choice Scarf
   amounts to 100.00% to 117.73% of Nucleon's total health; guaranteed OHKO.

FYI: A Timid Nucleon with Hidden Power Fighting and full investment in Speed ends up having a speed of 305 before getting a 1.5X boost from the Choice Scarf. A Timid Actan with the above described investment in Speed will end up having a speed of 308 before getting a 1.5X boost from the Choice Scarf.

I don't think Actan is a mediocre or niche Pokemon, unlike Geigeroach or Soundproof Paraboom. This is the only set and the bare minimum that it can use which is a true counter to Scarfed Nucleon, but there are other sets it can use to check Scarfed Nucleon and force the Nucleon user to switch out and find a replacement good enough to tank a hit from Iron Head, Earthquake, Crunch, Knock-Off, and even Outrage.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that Nucleon isn't ban worthy. I am just aiming to shed light on a new possible strategy that can be used against Nucleon if there are people who are interested in playing a metagame where Nucleon is allowed.

P.S.: I understand that finding/catching a fully competitive Actan is like winning the lottery, but you can easily force it's Nature to be Jolly 50% of the time by bringing a Synchronize lead to its encounter and as long as its HP IVs are larger than 1, and its Special Defense IVs exactly 31, it can do it's job surviving against Hidden Power Fighting while still OHKOing and having an ideal distribution of (scarce) IVs that optimizes overall Special bulk. I guess this would take approximately 70 encounters on average (and you still have to catch the thing too, ugh...). At least it is considerably lower than the shiny odds. The fact that obtaining a counter to Nucleon that isn't niche/mediocre compared to the surrounding Pokemon in the meta is so much of a pain to do definitely solidifies Nucleon as ban necessary, if there was ever any doubt about it in the first place. Otherwise, I hope this knowledge might help make the meta a bit less suffocating for those deciding to play against it in Ubers.

I actually screwed up the calculation for the odds of finding an Actan that can counter Nucleon. Actan requires at least 18 IVs in Speed as well in order to guarantee outspeeding the Nucleon and KOing it after surviving the initial hit. So, the total number of encounters is approximately 170 on average to find an Actan that meets all these requirements. So, big yikes there.

[Dragonstrike]

Spoiler

Why hasn't Choice Scarfed Actan been brought up as a counter to Nucleon? Scarfed Actan will outspeed Nucleon with 200 EVs in Speed and a Jolly Nature and will net a guaranteed KO with Knock Off if the Nucleon holds a Scarf. There is almost no reason why Nucleon wouldn't be running a speed boosting nature (Timid) and full EV investment in Speed while holding the Choice Scarf in order to outspeed the entire unscarfed meta, except for Mega Inflagetah. With those assumptions about Nucleon in mind, here are my damage calculations to substantiate this:

252 EVs in Special Attack, 252 EVs in Speed Nucleon with Timid Nature (Hidden Power Fighting) holding a Choice Scarf
   vs 200 EVs in Speed, 116 EVs in Attack Actan with Jolly Nature holding a Choice Scarf
    amounts to 77.18% to 90.99% of Actan's total health; guaranteed 2HKO.

Hidden Power Fighting is only a 2HKO, despite Actan being 4 times weak, even with optimal Special Attack investment from Nucleon against an Actan that is uninvested in Special bulk. In turn, Choice Scarfed Actan will have no problem outspeeding Scarfed Nucleon after it switches in and will net the OHKO:

200 EVs in Speed, 116 EVs in Attack Actan with Jolly Nature (Knock-Off) holding a Choice Scarf
   vs 252 EVs in Speed, 252 EVs in Defense, 4 EVs in HP Nucleon with Timid Nature holding a Choice Scarf
   amounts to 100.00% to 117.73% of Nucleon's total health; guaranteed OHKO.

FYI: A Timid Nucleon with Hidden Power Fighting and full investment in Speed ends up having a speed of 305 before getting a 1.5X boost from the Choice Scarf. A Timid Actan with the above described investment in Speed will end up having a speed of 308 before getting a 1.5X boost from the Choice Scarf.

I don't think Actan is a mediocre or niche Pokemon, unlike Geigeroach or Soundproof Paraboom. This is the only set and the bare minimum that it can use which is a true counter to Scarfed Nucleon, but there are other sets it can use to check Scarfed Nucleon and force the Nucleon user to switch out and find a replacement good enough to tank a hit from Iron Head, Earthquake, Crunch, Knock-Off, and even Outrage.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that Nucleon isn't ban worthy. I am just aiming to shed light on a new possible strategy that can be used against Nucleon if there are people who are interested in playing a metagame where Nucleon is allowed.

P.S.: I understand that finding/catching a fully competitive Actan is like winning the lottery, but you can easily force it's Nature to be Jolly 50% of the time by bringing a Synchronize lead to its encounter and as long as its HP IVs are larger than 1, and its Special Defense IVs exactly 31, it can do it's job surviving against Hidden Power Fighting while still OHKOing and having an ideal distribution of (scarce) IVs that optimizes overall Special bulk. I guess this would take approximately 70 encounters on average (and you still have to catch the thing too, ugh...). At least it is considerably lower than the shiny odds. The fact that obtaining a counter to Nucleon that isn't niche/mediocre compared to the surrounding Pokemon in the meta is so much of a pain to do definitely solidifies Nucleon as ban necessary, if there was ever any doubt about it in the first place. Otherwise, I hope this knowledge might help make the meta a bit less suffocating for those deciding to play against it in Ubers.

Actan is a Check at best by Smogon's definition of the terms Check and Counter.  It can't reliably switch into Nucleon every single time, and Nucleon will eventually wear it down if Actan tries to.  Yeah, any Choice Scarfed pokemon with more than 90 base Speed can outspeed a Nucleon guaranteed (provided Nucleon doesn't use Quick Attack), but almost no pokemon in the game is able to comfortably stomach Nucleon's main attack.  If you can't switch in every time against the pokemon, you can't Counter it.

The main reason Actan isn't used more often is because its weaknesses are easily exploitable by some of the most powerful pokemon in the game. Inflagetah and Archilles wreck it with STAB moves and Yatagaryu has its choice of Thunderstorm boosted Thunder or Focus Blast, to list a few examples. In addition, in a meta centralized around removing your opponent's Steel types as quickly as possible so your Nuclear type can sweep, having easily exploitable, common Steel type weaknesses isn't exactly a good thing.

[Andyv2]

Thanks for replying and clarifying that, Dragonstrike. Indeed, Actan can only switch in once against the Nucleon to perform this gig and god forbid Nucleon scores a critical hit on Actan 6.25% of the time. Or god forbid the Nucleon is aided by a Luxelong that has Baton Passed Calm Mind Special Attack boosts. At least Actan can still counter a Nucleon that stays in 93.75% of the time under normal battle conditions, even after taking Stealth Rock damage. Still, relying on Nucleon to stay in as the only viable way to function as a counter cannot possibly be good for its role on a competitive team.

[Dragonstrike]

Thanks for replying and clarifying that, Dragonstrike. Indeed, Actan can only switch in once against the Nucleon to perform this gig and god forbid Nucleon scores a critical hit on Actan 6.25% of the time. Or god forbid the Nucleon is aided by a Luxelong that has Baton Passed Calm Mind Special Attack boosts. At least Actan can still counter a Nucleon that stays in 93.75% of the time under normal battle conditions, even after taking Stealth Rock damage. Still, relying on Nucleon to stay in as the only viable way to function as a counter cannot possibly be good for its role on a competitive team.

Yeah, Nucleon doesn't exactly have any reliable counters, and even checks tend to be iffy at best.  Inflagetah, Yatagaryu, Archilles, S-51A...there are a select few pokemon that can Counter them, but they're few and far between.  Uranium is a game filled with hyper offensive pokemon, and hyper offensive teams thrive off of abusing the most powerful pokemon that work well in combination with each other.

You can never rely on a Nucleon to stay in unfortunately, unless that Nucleon is confident it can kill your pokemon with whatever move it's Choice Scarfed into.  Nucleon's strategy is simple: Hyper Offense to the max.  And Uranium's pokemon aren't built to handle it, as the majority of them are also Hyper Offensive.  The few that CAN switch into a Nucleon's Hyper Voice can be Countered/Checked by whatever pokemon the opponent brings to specifically Counter/Check them (which will usually be a Fire/Fighting type move user of some variety, possibly even multiples of them, because only Steel types and the rare Soundproof/Lead Skin users can attempt to Check Nucleon). That near perfect Hyper Offensive coverage with just one move combined with team synergy to deal with the few things that can take said single move is why Nucleon is so threatening.