Balancing the Nuclear Type

[xaritscin]

i dont know much about competitive first of all. but from the reads i've seen about it on the forum it seems there's a lack of participation from most of the nuclear pokemon in the game. with Nucleon and Nuclear Jerbolta being a top threat.

part of this is because of the glass cannon nature of the nuclear type, now i dont hate nuclear types, i like the idea, and i wanted to use some of them for future adventures. however, i think that they have to be better balanced. how? well, by looking at the other types and comparing with what nuclear is supposed to represent.

poison is the closest to  nuclear in terms of thematics, it represents hazardous contamination for nature, so it makes sense that its specially deadly to grass and fairy (which is related somehow to nature)

poison doesnt do anything to most inorganic types (ground, rock, ghost, other poison) and steel is inmune, this makes sense.

now lets look at Nuclear, nuclear elements remain in raw state inside the earth, and they dont really affect the environment under that state. so thematically ground and rock shouldnt be affected by nuclear, it would be x1 damage at most (if not 1/2).

from the few info i know about nuclear powerplants, nuclear rods are submerged in gigantic pools of water in order to evade overheating. again, x1 effectiveness against water, and possibly ice make more sense thematically.

now, the more heat released the more dangerous a powerplant is to suffer a fallout. so fire and electricity are a hazard near nuclear elements, you dont counter fire with fire, or electric with electric, so nuclear is 1/2 resistant to fire and electric, it feeds on it, but its not stopped by it. however, nuclear produces heat and energy for consumption so it would too be 1/2 effective against those types.

ghost isnt supposedly to be alive, so it should get 1/2 resistance to nuclear (much like with poison).

x2 to normal, bug, fight, psychicm flying and dark makes sense since they are living things (barring some exceptions).

steel is still the same.

so lets look at the redesigned type:

Offensive:

x2: plant, normal, bug, psychic, dark, fight, fairy, flying, dragon

x1: water, ice

x1/2: fire, electric, ground, rock, ghost, poison, nuclear itself

x0: steel master race

Defensively:

x1/2: nuclear, electric, fire, poison, ghost (mutual resistance?)

x1: water, ice, dark, fight, psychic, plant, bug, dragon, fairy, normal

x2: steel, ground, rock 

a bit of context on this, with those changed in offensive, some of the double type mons in the game should get a bit more of resistance against nuclear types, for example, glavinug would receive normal damage, frikitiki would get normal too due to cancelation (x2 damage against plant, but its fire type extra divides this by half).

in order to balance this most of the super effective types against nuclear where moved to normal damage against it, while all "Earth" based types are still super effective against it. for example, Astronite would still be super effective and it gets x1 weakness against nuclears. 

im open to discussion, thanks for watching the thread, i like the premise of nuclear pokemon but i felt that making them an all or nothing type crumbled some of the viability of most of them. so i hope this could open more place to field those nuclear variants or the rest of the pure nuclear ones outside of Hazma, Urayne, Nucleon or Nuclear Jerbolta.

EDIT:

here are some more examples about the possible scenarios of this reworked nuclear type.

1. we have a battle between a pure nuclear and ampharos, because electric and nuclear do half damage against each other the fight is stalled, however, if ampharos mega evolves, the nuclear pokemon will have a x2 damage bonus. this would be unbalanced, but because ampharos is dual type, the electric typing cancels the weakness leaving the fight into a stall again, (x1 damage between each other).

now, some of you think, how can i win fast then?, well, Ampharos can learn power gem, which is a rock type move, this means x2 effectiveness against nuclear, so you can still play that card in order to get rid of the nuclear pokemon. this is a bit of strategic thinking.

2. lets take a dual type nuclear mon, Nuclear Baariette, it gets 2 nuclear moves along with dark and fighting moves. in this case there's a huge range of pokemon that can counter it, the best i can come to mind are Geigeroach, Miasmedic, Harylect and Firoke, but any pure Nuclear and any secondary nuclear with access to a bug/fairy/fighting/rock/ground/steel moves will get rid of it easily because it will either be x2 effective against nuclear or x2 effective against dark.

[Lord Windos]

I'd say Rock typing should take 1X damage from Nuclear types, as while it does shield raw radioactive material, its still affect by it somewhat. Same goes to Ground, as the very earth can still be affected by nuclear fallout, but not to the degree that it would on more organic life forms. Bugs, too, could take 1X damage from Nuclears, as while they are organic, since they have such short generation times and breed a heck of a lot, the mutagenetic properties of radiation might be blunted for them. This is shorta supported by the existence of Giegeroach, but that is a debatable point.

Water should be moved to resistences, as in real life, water serve as a wonderful buffer for rampant radiation, even if it turn it heavy. Still, it serves as a bulkwart against it, so it would count as something! Ice is fine where it is, as while it is just frozen water, radiation can just melt it down, making the type somewhat susceptible to Nuclear power. Steel types should retain its 1/2X resistence towards Nuclears, as metal, while heavily resistant against radiation, can still be altered or impermiated by it. Takes a lot of effort to get to that point, though!

As for immunities, just give it to Ghost types, as while everything in the nature world is affect by radiation to a degree, the dead would not give one ectoplasmic goob about it. They are dead, so what is Nuclear power going to do to them, make them slightly more spooky?

Here is a revised Type Match Up Chart for the Nuclear Type, based on your and mine ideas:

Supper Effective Against-

Grass, Flying, Psychic, Dark, Fairy, Fighting, Dragon, Normal, Poison (Toxins are affected by radiation too!)

Neutral Against-

Ice, Ground, Rock, Bug

Resisted by-

Water, Fire, Electric, Steel

Uneffective against-

Ghosts

As for Nuclear's weakness, just leave them as is, except maybe Ghost, Ground, and Rock types. With Ghost/Nuclear, there should be a mutually immunity between the two types, as Ghostly energies should equally do bubkiss against radioactive power. For Ground and Rock, if Nuclear power is somewhat blunted by Earth types, then Earth types should be just as effective against it. I mean, in the end, Nuclear, Rock, and Ground types share an origin, right? With having only 4 neutral match ups and 1 immunity, hitting super effectively or neutrally against over 1/2 of all types should be balanced by it being resisted and creamed by the remaining types!

[xaritscin]

yeah that should work better, i just wanted to give some ground for counteract for the other types, but yeah, maybe it may take a lot from the supposed intents of the nuclear type.

anyways, as long as this helps to put more nuclear mons on the scene while reducing the overpower from the ones that are practically in the spot for ban im fine.

[Lord Windos]

Thanks for taking my suggestion positively! Hopefully, your thread will get more attention in due time!

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Eh... I do like how you thought through the issue, and give reasons why this and that type shall have a resistance/weakness against radiation (not going in detail about that here)... 

However... 
... Whoahw guys, careful with balancing ideas! I don't have to remind on Dramsama, do I?

[xaritscin]

well it would be a nerf to the current nuclear threats in online battles but it should also give ground for using other nuclear mons and also to have more ways to go around them. i've never used dramsama so i dont know how busted it was but or if it got too much nerfed, that's a case of a pokemon having an imbalance because of design and stats.

however the problem here was that many nuclear mons in the game dont see use because they are too weak in terms of resistances while being too slow compared to many of the popular picks used, meanwhile the meta picks are completelly busted because they are on the other end of the spectrum abusing the super effective damage with a speed that matches some of the top speed mons used by the rest of the people.

im not bashing on nucleon or N-Jerbolta, or Urayne. but i'd like to be able to use a Xenoqueen or Geigeroach or any of the other nuclear variation mons without feeling that even the worst typed foe will 100-0 me just because i was slower. or feel like im obligued to build a team around Nucleon or any of the other picks because its nigh unkillable if you're slow.

i like the idea of trimming some power of from the nuclear type so more types are capable of dealing with them while adding much needed resistance for the nuclears. like in the examples above, it creates 1:1 scenarios for the most part, with open choices to turn the table without going too crazy.

however, if this goes against what the Nuclear type is supposed to be then it makes sense that Lord Windo's version of the idea is more fitting.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Oh, it’s totally fine, I did not mean to offend you… just asking to be a bit careful when discussing nerfs and balancing…

To be honest, I see your point about wanting to use more Nukemon and therefor wanting to… balance them out. They’re great and I do like them for various reasons as well, with Xenoqueen being my favorite – Nucleon is just the flagship of those due to its ability.
However, I personally am fine with them how they are in terms of weakness and resitances, while I nevertheless like that idea of why this or that type shall be super effective/non effective against Nuclear for the reasons displayed and discussed. Plus, I don’t know if the devs care to do all that…

So, to sum up, I like your idea including Windos’ suggestion, but I’d prefer more Speed on Xenoqueen and maybe even Geigeroach, combined with a fixed (!) Fallout in general.

(...) As for immunities, just give it to Ghost types, as while everything in the nature world is affect by radiation to a degree, the dead would not give one ectoplasmic goob about it. They are dead, so what is Nuclear power going to do to them, make them slightly more spooky? (...)

This is definitely the best quote/pun you ever brought up. :D

[Lord Windos]

@PhantomUnderYourDesk Anytime, my ghastly darling~ Hopefully my bad humor doesn't Astonish too many people, or cause them to give me a Mean Look!

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

How are toxins affected by radiation? Is it because most of them are of organic nature? If so, okay, then it surely makes sense, given that, well, Pokemon are living creatures (... most of them, at least), so radiation does have an impact on those and their cells that produce the toxin.

But there are inorganic toxins as well, like fluorine- and arsenic-compunds. What about those? In theory, would those be unaffected if exposed to radiation...? How can a toxic gas like mentioned fluorine be "exposed to radiation", at all? And what about a Ghastly, it's dead and a huge toxic gas ball... Nuclear Ghastly? Is that possible, or would it end up tearing apart...? Wouldn't it be twice as toxic then (Holy crackers!)...?




... So many questions...
Can't... sleep... ... No... !
 

[Lord Windos]

*Pats there head in comfort* There Ghosts, dear. They can do what ever spooky stuff they want, and that include being immune to radiation. Being dead frees them from silly things as biological functions!