[Guide] Tier list OU & UU

[Cataclyptic]

Based on usage stats, Nucleon, Yatagaryu and Metalynx ( mega?) are S ranked for sure, which is no surprise. Genuinely surprised that Inflagetah isn’t higher than they are though, honestly it seems to be the biggest threat on paper with its absurd power and priority.

That's the funny thing about usage based statistics, really.  Smogon's metagames are often like this at the start of every new generation/game release cuz everyone's trying out the new toys.  The stats should settle a bit to more of what we're expecting as more data is added to the pool and team preferences change based on bans and other changes to the tiers.

True, and I guess there’s only been 3 tournaments wheras at smogon they can do random battles every day...

[Dragonstrike]

True, and I guess there’s only been 3 tournaments wheras at smogon they can do random battles every day...

That being said, I'm not surprised to see most of these pokemon made OU.  Feliger, Glavinug, Paraboom, and Theriamp are probably the ones I'm most surprised to see.  Jolteon gets a pass simply because it's just so dang fast and Electric is a great offensive type.  And Urayne-B being there doesn't surprise me either, particularly since it's so low in the rankings (showing just how hard it is to get a half-decent one).

Also, really happy to see N-Pajay on the list (even though it just barely made the cut), because it just goes to show that nobody's overlooking it.  That bird is MEAN.

[Lord Windos]

True, and I guess there’s only been 3 tournaments wheras at smogon they can do random battles every day...

That being said, I'm not surprised to see most of these pokemon made OU.  Feliger, Glavinug, Paraboom, and Theriamp are probably the ones I'm most surprised to see.  Jolteon gets a pass simply because it's just so dang fast and Electric is a great offensive type.  And Urayne-B being there doesn't surprise me either, particularly since it's so low in the rankings (showing just how hard it is to get a half-decent one).

Also, really happy to see N-Pajay on the list (even though it just barely made the cut), because it just goes to show that nobody's overlooking it.  That bird is MEAN.

Feliger basically has pseudo Status immunity and great Bulk/ATK, and naturally has great synergy with Sleep Talk sets and being a Sleep Absorb/Automatic Sleep Clause Activater, Glavinug has good abilities/movesets and is the best Hail Setter in the game, Paraboom has a decent STAB combination and soft counters Nucleon's Hyper Voice with its Soundproof, and Theriamp is just beastily if set up right (I've got several movesets in mind for the not so sloathful Pokémon, hehehe....).

N-Pajay is right nasty, as having not only perfect coverage but STAB on top of them is just plain evil I say! Fear the Nuclear Phoenix, I say!

[Dragonstrike]

Feliger basically has pseudo Status immunity and great Bulk/ATK, and naturally has great synergy with Sleep Talk sets and being a Sleep Absorb/Automatic Sleep Clause Activater, Glavinug has good abilities/movesets and is the best Hail Setter in the game, Paraboom has a decent STAB combination and soft counters Nucleon's Hyper Voice with its Soundproof, and Theriamp is just beastily if set up right (I've got several movesets in mind for the not so sloathful Pokémon, hehehe....).

N-Pajay is right nasty, as having not only perfect coverage but STAB on top of them is just plain evil I say! Fear the Nuclear Phoenix, I say!

Oh yeah, right.  Except there's one problem with describing Feliger's Lazy ability like that: self-inflicted Sleep (like from Rest) doesn't count against Sleep Clause by Smogon rules.  Effect Spore and Relic Song are the only grey areas in the rules iirc since they randomly inflict the status, unfortunately :/  Forgot Glavinug got Snow Warning, though.  And that Paraboom laughs at standard Nucleon sets (glances at the unfinished Paraboom guide...oh yeah, right, I DID put that on there, didn't I? Whoops...).  Still not sold on Theriamp, tbh, but maybe seeing some sets will help with that.  *glances at Theriamp's wiki page*  Huh.  Rock Head Head Smash versus Energizate Return...both backed by EQ and Rock Polish...okay then...

Buddy, that's not even the best part.  Remember how I said Nuclear Wind seems to have a small chance of causing Fallout weather according to some comments on the wiki?  On the off chance that triggers, you've all but killed your current target and maybe the next one guaranteed.  Oh, and removed almost all of your N-Pajay's weaknesses.  Blegh.  Wish I knew the odds of that happening, though...oh, and all of those N-Pajay are guaranteed to have perfect IVs, so that's pretty fun too.

[shademonkey]

@Cataclyptic

Mega Evolutions should definitely be treated separately from their regular formes in the future. It has not been the case here because when looking at the team lists we got from the tournament holders we couldn't always tell which pokemon were Mega and which weren't. I know I never told Dusk what my mega was when I sent him the team I used during his tournament.

If you mean S-rank as in poweroftibarn's Viabilty Rankings, I understand your point, but bear in mind that they're seriously outdated (some mons weren't even in the game at the time he posted, and movepools have changed since) and just doesn't make real sense at times (Frosthra, Jolteon and Harptera being on the same level as N-Eshouten for example, and Gararewl being higher-ranked than all of them). 

I don't want to diss his work in any way, I just feel it's too outdated to be a reliable resource anymore, and I'd be all about updating or remaking the Viability Rankings from scratch.

Now about Inflagetah "not being higher than it is" now, it's because neither @Narshyl and @Aiden nor I wanted to make decisions regarding future bans to Uber and Borderline on our own. We have our opinions on certain pokemon deserving or not to be banned from their respective tiers, but our sole opinions aren't enough to enforce such bans. That's one of the reasons there's talk of gathering experienced players somewhere to discuss these matters through playtesting and educated reasonning and arguments. I don't know how it would happen, I just know I want a larger group of experienced people who would like to spend time to discuss matters of the competitive scene so that
-judgments can be as accurate as possible and as well-argued as possible
-decisions regarding the comp scene are taken by more than just a select few

I don't even know if I'd like to be part of this group, as I admit I'm far from being a pro player, I'm just decent, but I know I want this to be a thing.


Also, the stats used were collected from 5 tournaments, not 3. Having so little data to exploit is a big problem, but it's still better than three tourneys. ;) You can have a look at them by following the link in the first post.




@Lord Windos
There is no Sleep Clause yet so by all means, put to sleep to your heart's desire! Evasion Clause isn't a thing either yet so everything is allowed. The reason for that is that no one has abused Sleep and Evasion in tournament so much that it would become unfair yet.
The only Clauses I'd like people to respect are Species Clause, as this one would mess the usage stats, and what could be called Glitch Clause, which would encompass every aspect of battle that isnt working the way it is supposed to (Fur Coat, VoltTurn passing stat modifications, and I don't remember if the RestTalk problem was fixed but if not it would probably fit here too).

[Cataclyptic]

@Cataclyptic

Mega Evolutions should definitely be treated separately from their regular formes in the future. It has not been the case here because when looking at the team lists we got from the tournament holders we couldn't always tell which pokemon were Mega and which weren't. I know I never told Dusk what my mega was when I sent him the team I used during his tournament.

If you mean S-rank as in poweroftibarn's Viabilty Rankings, I understand your point, but bear in mind that they're seriously outdated.

Now about Inflagetah "not being higher than it is" now, it's because neither @Narshyl and @Aiden nor I wanted to make decisions regarding future bans to Uber and Borderline on our own. We have our opinions on certain pokemon deserving or not to be banned from their respective tiers, but our sole opinions aren't enough to enforce such bans. That's one of the reasons there's talk of gathering experienced players somewhere to discuss these matters through playtesting and educated reasonning and arguments. I don't know how it would happen, I just know I want a larger group of experienced people who would like to spend time to discuss matters of the competitive scene so that
-judgments can be as accurate as possible and as well-argued as possible
-decisions regarding the comp scene are taken by more than just a select few

I don't even know if I'd like to be part of this group, as I admit I'm far from being a pro player, I'm just decent, but I know I want this to be a thing.


Also, the stats used were collected from 5 tournaments, not 3. Having so little data to exploit is a big problem, but it's still better than three tourneys. You can have a look at them by following the link in the first post.

Sorry, meant 5, that was a typo. As for my S ranked post, I was actually going by the data of the 5 tourneys and observing that those three were the most used pokemon. I am not going by the viability rankings because as you say, those will need to be redone.

M- Inflagetah being banned that is just me theorymonning right now. As I said “on paper” it should be in ubers, but perhaps not in practice.

[Dragonstrike]

Speaking of tiering megas separately from the base forms, if we look at the mons listed here that have megas...

Well, I'm not surprised Metalynx is on top.  Both its base and Mega forms are very strong.  Inflagetah, Syrentide, and Gyarados might also suffer from inflated usage stats due to their base forms being as viable as their megas in the right teams.

Archilles and Electruxo are most likely to be Mega if you see them on the enemy team, since their biggest strengths are Drought and Drizzle abuse/support.  Kiricorn as well to a degree, I think.

And S51-A...well, let's be honest.  There's not really much reason to use its Mega on most teams.

Oh, one other note to make: it'd be nice to see the usage stats listed in a more sequentially ordered form, so it'd be easier to see which pokemon are the most used.

[Narshyl]

Metalynx being so high is mostly because it used to be the #1 steel type. the stats show that its getting used less ever since s51-a got rapid spin.

I agree on trying to tier mega's and non mega's seperatly. it will just take some time before those number become accurate if we start now.