[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

It shall remain that way, yes. But even IF Nathan would ask for help with that Pinsir, just like in the Delta Houndour's case Shiva will refuse... She may be a compassionate soul, but she won't get near things she doesn't like when it can avoided.

[Lord Windos]

@Lord Windos No, don't do that. EVER, PLEASE. If Ventus leaves the group, Shiva would likely never get over it. (Probably leave as well, following him) Outta-chara, you'd bereave me of a big big part of fun in Iron's campaign. You want to throw away everything we had and break Shiva's heart before they even got together...?

If Ventus leaves the group, Shiva would likely never get over it. (Probably leave as well, following him) Outta-chara, you'd bereave me of a big big part of fun in Iron's campaign. You want to throw away everything we had and break Shiva's heart before they even got together...?

And THAT is one reason why I'm not sure Ventus leaving would be an entirely good thing.  And why I'm trying to fix the mess I purposely put Nathan into, or at least get it on track to being repaired.  Nathan's more agreeable than you might think, @Lord Windos...but there needs to be a compromise somewhere, and Nathan's going to (hopefully) have a decent catalyst for that coming up...

....*Sigh* Guys, I want to be honest with you right now: I am getting more than a little tired of playing Ventus with the way things are now, and with just how DIFFICULT it is to work with and around his myriad traits and issues.

Don't get me wrong, I don't HATE my character or wish to see him be *Poofed!* out of existence unceromonously, but the problem I have with him and that everyone else in the group has is plain, simple, and straight: he's just too dark and morally ambiguous for the current group/setting he's in. Let me explain in greater detail, as I am want to do: 

His various hang ups, the amorality/blue orange morality that he has, his frankly tragic and brionic history and frequent falls from grace, and just being deeply scarred at his core makes him a very nuaced, complex character, making him feel more 'real' and sympathetic to the average reader. Problem is, all that complexity I made has ALSO turned him into a fairly ruthless and unscrumpelous individual, with hatred and phobias so pitch black and deep that you eclipse the sun with it, and a moral compass that decidedly point to wherever the hell he decides it does on a given minute. In a DnD/Pathfinder campaign or one where characters/setting isn't as idealistic or....light hearted?, Ven actions and motivations would not have an eye batted at them (Most likely, anyway) after some downtime for a group to familiarize themselves with him.

However, in Iron's PokeRole world/campaign and the character he journeying along side....all of that has more or less caused more conflict, problems, drama, and emotional harm than just about anything else in the campaign that I can think of. Name one time that Ventus has not invariably or variably caused someone grief over his well meaning action, and I can name 10 or MORE where he does just that. The amount arguments that the researcher has had with Nathan alone over topics most people would not even consider an issue is too numerous to count, and his worrying and protectiveness nature tends to be as self destrutctive as genuinely helpful/appreciated.

My character does have his good qualites, though. His compassion/understanding/empathy is rather obvious, he's always eager and willing to help out just about anyone that doesn't raise alarms with him, whole heartily loves and cares for his Pokémon family, has fairly noble goal of using his research to better the relationships between man and Pokémon, and just how sociable/eloquent he can be with others. When all the other black/grey aspect of his character come to the forefront, though, its VERY hard to remember and care/empathize with him in and out of game. Those negative qualities become especially when Nathan, basteon of moral goodness and one of the big heroes of the story, and Shiva, the least devisive and most accepting and caring individual one might find in the game, find my own character's action severely wanting at worst and eye raising more often than not.....

.....*Sigh* When I made Ventus and later crafted his story as we went along the journey, I expect that his dark history and darker than most morality would be just something that the group would take as a given, quickly adapt/accept/compromise to it or get that point sooner than not, and we all be on our merry way for the most part. What turned out was having him constantly at odds with everyone in some way, shape, or form, me and him having to bend over backwards and make ill fitting/cumbersome actions that by all rights he would not make were he in a vacuum without us informing him, trying to steer him through the many landmines that lay between him and Nate over many a subject while also not losing himself or who he is at his core.....you get the picture.

Its getting to the point where I feel that I have to slog through his demons and bugbears while keeping him on a wavy, hard to make out course that make everyone happy, which quite obviously doesn't make ME or him very happy as well since its so bloody difficult. Its one of the main reason him not giving a fuck about Nathan anymore was so gratifying/relieving to him, as letting go of his obligations and actively working on their friendship took away a burden that had caused him more pain than not. The fact that a simple day out with Shiva is something to be cherished, coveted, and planned for, rather it being a pleasant standerd for our character speaks volumes in of itself, honestly.

Because of all the above, the fact that now that I have played this game long enough to know that the way I developed my character was not that great to begin with (Especially seeing as he's more of a Refined and Brutal Enforcer than Truly Empathetic Researcher at this point), and simply just desiring to play the game with you guys without having to either weakly justifying my chara's actions/doing stuff VERY contrary to his nature, its why I have thought of other characters to replace him that would just be a better fit for EVERYTHING. A clean slate that I can tailor make to at least be agreeable or non-provactive with the others, just having him do his thing without much resistence and having fun with you guys without worrying whether or not the next shoe is going to fall soon...

I know that having Ventus leave NOW of all times would be increadibly jarring, no matter how delicately and carefully such an endevour is planned not to harm anyone in game, but think of the good sides.

No more moral conflict. Minimal hassle and arguments, If we can help it. No more murderous rampages, justified or not. Calm acceptance of each other without any qualifiers or prejudice. Not having to tip toe around HIS problems. Unrestricted access to magical/magical seeming things without a panic attack. No more 'help.' And, most importantly of all: everyone can simply be happy and the play damn game without drama every 5 or 10 pages in the Game Thread.

Think about it.

[Lord Windos]

Also, having Ventus leave doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be gone forever. He could have his own quest/soul searching while he's off doing whatever, and my new character can hang out with you guys and engage in jolly cooperation until the time comes for Character Prime to return. At that point, Ven should have gotten a hold of himself and fully sorted his shit out, so he could make a triumphant return and being a legitimately better person for it, while Character Auxillery goes off on his own with good memories of his own.

Well, if Iron allows that short of character swapping, that is. Or character redos this late in the game, at that.

[Dragonstrike]

I still don't really know if it's a good idea or not, tbh...yes, it stops the arguments, but we lose an incredibly key character for a rather significant part of the plot: the Genesect portion.  And it's bound to cause a lot of immediate harm to the group as well...

[Lord Windos]

I still don't really know if it's a good idea or not, tbh...yes, it stops the arguments, but we lose an incredibly key character for a rather significant part of the plot: the Genesect portion.  And it's bound to cause a lot of immediate harm to the group as well...

Ventus can still stay in contact with the group via Cellphone and messages to blunt the blow of him pulling a Vincent, and Nathan has read and memorized all things concerning Genesect from Project Sliverfish AND has more info pertaining to the Legend's status than he does, so the group can still continue that portion of the plot if my character leaves. You don't necessarily need Ven to act as a potential intermediary with Silverfish, and Iron did mention that they would not be the same since the time they haves spent apart, so who knows if they would have reacted favorably to my chara ?

Right now, though, all we can right now is wait for Iron to come back and see his opinion on the whole matter, since its still up in the air whether or not I'm allowed to make a new character at this point in time. That, and find a way to get Phantom on board this train of thought, if at all possible.

[Dragonstrike]

I still don't really know if it's a good idea or not, tbh...yes, it stops the arguments, but we lose an incredibly key character for a rather significant part of the plot: the Genesect portion.  And it's bound to cause a lot of immediate harm to the group as well...

Ventus can still stay in contact with the group via Cellphone and messages to blunt the blow of him pulling a Vincent, and Nathan has read and memorized all things concerning Genesect from Project Sliverfish AND has more info pertaining to the Legend's status than he does, so the group can still continue that portion of the plot if my character leaves. You don't necessarily need Ven to act as a potential intermediary with Silverfish, and Iron did mention that they would not be the same since the time they haves spent apart, so who knows if they would have reacted favorably to my chara ?

Right now, though, all we can right now is wait for Iron to come back and see his opinion on the whole matter, since its still up in the air whether or not I'm allowed to make a new character at this point in time. That, and find a way to get Phantom on board this train of thought, if at all possible.

Yes, Nathan has more info about Creshire's Genesect currently, but it's not going to stay that way forever.  My main concern is the effect Ventus leaving would have on the group.  What will Shiva do without him for support?  Who will pay Valder?  How will Nathan cope with this if he feels like he drove Ventus away from the group as a whole, particularly when he's trying to fix things for once?  Blunting the blow or not, there's some rather large repercussions that could have...

I'm still not convinced either.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

I see your reasons @Lord Windos, but I still do not want Ven to leave. Can't we find a way/solution that he and Nathan just don't have anything to do with one another too much, in a way 'we're not friends, we just work together when there's need for it' please and leave it at that? o(TヘTo) No more moral conflicts between them. I'm only honest when I say I began to dislike Nathan for all the hassle he put my empathic fave chara through.

Also, what would happen if Ven leaves permanently? ... Of course Shiva will cotton on that Nathan must have driven him away eventually. What would happen after enough tears were shed? She'll grow spiteful towards Nathan. Silently, and we have approxinately the same situation between Nathan and Shiva that we have between Ventus and Nathan now. "Here, take your Destiny Knot back." Congrats, you badly messed up.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

However, Ventus could just take a break, but not in a way 'he's doing his own quest'? Like, similar like Valder did that Training in the mountains while Nylon was off in Britain. Maybe an in-game week to come back afterwards. Needs to be arranged with Shiva... Now that they share a room and bed, he leaves... :C

[Lord Windos]

@PhantomUnderYourDesk and @Dragonstrike :

Alright, alright, I'll keep Ventus in the game, if both of you feel strongly enough about this, and since you both made good points as to why him leaving at this time/at all would not be the most optimal idea, even if handled carefully.

Personally, I though Dragonstrike would be all for Ven getting the boot and having another character that his can more readily look up too and happily work with, and that Shiva would understand/accept my chara's departure with occasional contact between them without lashing out at Nathan. I'm still not entirely sure WHY, though, as both your character are adaptable enough to survive such a party re-arrangement.

Welp, regardless, guess Character Auxellery is staying in my backpocket for the time being, so that is that.

[Lord Windos]

However, Ventus could just take a break, but not in a way 'he's doing his own quest'? Like, similar like Valder did thst Training in the mountains while Nylon was off in Britain. Maybe an in-game week to come back afterwards. Needs to be arranged with Shiva... Now that they share a room and bed, he leaves... :C

If possible, that's a compromise I can readily agree with. An in-game week were Ventus goes off to get a much needed break from the party and seriously contemplate his navels, while my have another character (the one I had in mind) come in to fill in that gap in time, have him make some good memories with everyone and soothe over tensions himself, and just experiment with a new playstyle to see how it works in game. I'm not sure whether or not Iron will Ok this, but its at least something that would be good for the sanity of all our characters at the moment. Of course, the vacay is not going to happen today, as he still needs to spend it with Shiva! It be rude for him to abruptly leave in the middle of his not-date with her, after all!