[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

I've been considering smashing pillars one at a time to get to each Reuni one at a time.

No, please no smashing pillars if we're already using Earthquake due to the risk of the ceiling breaking and burying us beneath it.

But concentrating on one Reuni at a time sounds like a good thought, I wanted to do that with Mightyena anyway. But whether it'll bring a mechanical effect only Gamemaster knows.

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

I can't KO Solosis with Calam and use an optimal setup of pokemon at the same time.   If it gets KOed and isn't picked up soon after, EQ is likely to kill it (which I don't want to happen).  Capturing a Reuni isn't a convenient option because we can't capture other trainers' pokemon with pokeballs and those blobs with hands are actually threatening, unlike Solosis.  We can only trivialize watching Solosis because it can't do anything to us without getting mulched immediately since it only has 2 Vit.



That plan does sound best for trying to burn through them as quickly as possible, imo.  I'm just worried EQ might destroy us before it destroys them (5 + 4 + STAB = 10 D6 base.  A max damage roll would instantly KO a Grass type with only 3 Defense and 6 HP).

If I'm going to be attempting to help Valder burn through the lot of 'em ASAP with Razor Leaf/Giga Drain, I'll probably level Str (which I've been wanting to do anyways).  4 + 2/3 + STAB = 7/8 base, and Razor Leaf is high crit.


I've been considering smashing pillars one at a time to get to each Reuni one at a time.


I was also considering attempting to 'weaken the chain', so to speak.  KO the ones in the middle first or attempt to strike their arms/hands to separate them so they don't have nearly as much of a power boost.  Don't know if Hypnosis could do that instantaneously, though.

Then I would just suggest telling the guy if he tries to flee at this point, its VERY likely they'll get caught in the crossfire and get hurt/die horribly, and so should at least stick with them until AFTERWARD. It does have a sense of self preservation if I recall, albeit not a strong one. If they get away at THAT point, let nature take its course, as Nathan explicitly warned them of the consequences and tried to keep them safe despite them being an enemy, but they ignored him anyway and suffers accordingly, absolving him of a least MOST of the guilt associated with them getting maimed/killed. Unless they literally can't handle the thought of it dying for any reason at all, in which case I think your character has bigger problems with them than just getting away imo.

The difference /mitigating factors is that we have Revives and Potions to stigmy that threat, on top of Anti Earthquake Tactics, plus they might turn tail and flee if they get too damaged to fulfill their purpose/it seems like the cave is going to go *CRACK!*.

Add + 2 from Tailwind, and Razor Leaf has a 8/9 Base, and Malphena will be assisting with either Nasty Plot and Nevermelt Ice boost Icy Winds (Ghosts ignore cover, so would that uneuter Spread Move for her?) or Confuse each and everyone one of the blobs and then hit them with Hex (If not). Heart also can chip them down more quickly with Viktor, and Valder also has Haunter with Shadow Ball o' Pain, so between them all Mamo might not even have to do that many EQs (Maybe only 1-2 Per Round?) .

If we do that, we can't really use Earthquake without compounding the whole 'caving in the area' deal, but if Mamo gets spiked by a tag team effort then that's a good back up plan. If THAT fails, we could all just flee from them, then go with Plan C of Tunneling under/around them. We just don't have to stick with one plan, but have multiples just in case one fails. I still suggest we trying firing off at least 1-2 Earthquake in the first Round before resorting to Plan B (Pillar Smash and Spread Move Blitz) in the next if we all end up right nackered by EQ/Them.

[Dragonstrike]

Spoiler

Then I would just suggest telling the guy if he tries to flee at this point, its VERY likely they'll get caught in the crossfire and get hurt/die horribly, and so should at least stick with them until AFTERWARD. It does have a sense of self preservation if I recall, albeit not a strong one. If they get away at THAT point, let nature take its course, as Nathan explicitly warned them of the consequences and tried to keep them safe despite them being an enemy, but they ignored him anyway and suffers accordingly, absolving him of a least MOST of the guilt associated with them getting maimed/killed. Unless they literally can't handle the thought of it dying for any reason at all, in which case I think your character has bigger problems with them than just getting away imo.

The difference /mitigating factors is that we have Revives and Potions to stigmy that threat, on top of Anti Earthquake Tactics, plus they might turn tail and flee if they get too damaged to fulfill their purpose/it seems like the cave is going to go *CRACK!*.

Add + 2 from Tailwind, and Razor Leaf has a 8/9 Base, and Malphena will be assisting with either Nasty Plot and Nevermelt Ice boost Icy Winds (Ghosts ignore cover, so would that uneuter Spread Move for her?) or Confuse each and everyone one of the blobs and then hit them with Hex (If not). Heart also can chip them down more quickly with Viktor, and Valder also has Haunter with Shadow Ball o' Pain, so between them all Mamo might not even have to do that many EQs (Maybe only 1-2 Per Round?) .

If we do that, we can't really use Earthquake without compounding the whole 'caving in the area' deal, but if Mamo gets spiked by a tag team effort then that's a good back up plan. If THAT fails, we could all just flee from them, then go with Plan C of Tunneling under/around them. We just don't have to stick with one plan, but have multiples just in case one fails. I still suggest we trying firing off at least 1-2 Earthquake in the first Round before resorting to Plan B (Pillar Smash and Spread Move Blitz) in the next if we all end up right nackered by EQ/Them.

One problem with that suggestion: just like Angelica in the Celadon campaign, Solosis (and these Reuniclus) are blindly loyal to a fault.  If it's told to fight or stays true to its (artificial) loyalty now that there's an opportunity, it will fight no matter what Nathan tells it.  Nathan wants Solosis alive for two reasons: so he can work on finding a way to restore its emotions/will if at all possible (or sebd it to someone who can) and to have physical proof for Dagny/Tanuki that something bad is going on.  Can't do either if Solosis is dead.  Nathan could handle it dying but...that would kinda be a huge setback, and he'd be incredibly irritated about it.

The Scimitars aren't going to tell those Reuniclus to flee.  They don't care for them as anything but tools from what we know about the group.

I'm all for trying to handle them with EQ provided we can mitigate things enough, but it's definitely not a move we can just fire off willy nilly.  If that doesn't finish the job, then we're probably going to have to handle the blobs 1 by 1.  I am still slightly worried that our grounded mons are gonna get rekt by EQ, resisted hit or no.  -1 damage can only do so much against such a huge damage pool.  (btw, Tailwind doesn't buff damage pools. Nathan does have 10/11 base accuracy pools, though)

I do have a question for @Iron: could Nathan Grapple Solosis and also mount Tropius Ditto to avoid the first EQ?  Or Grapple Solosis while on Tropius Ditto?

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

One problem with that suggestion: just like Angelica in the Celadon campaign, Solosis (and these Reuniclus) are blindly loyal to a fault.  If it's told to fight or stays true to its (artificial) loyalty now that there's an opportunity, it will fight no matter what Nathan tells it.  Nathan wants Solosis alive for two reasons: so he can work on finding a way to restore its emotions/will if at all possible (or sebd it to someone who can) and to have physical proof for Dagny/Tanuki that something bad is going on.  Can't do either if Solosis is dead.  Nathan could handle it dying but...that would kinda be a huge setback, and he'd be incredibly irritated about it.

The Scimitars aren't going to tell those Reuniclus to flee.  They don't care for them as anything but tools from what we know about the group.

I'm all for trying to handle them with EQ provided we can mitigate things enough, but it's definitely not a move we can just fire off willy nilly.  If that doesn't finish the job, then we're probably going to have to handle the blobs 1 by 1.  I am still slightly worried that our grounded mons are gonna get rekt by EQ, resisted hit or no.  -1 damage can only do so much against such a huge damage pool.  (btw, Tailwind doesn't buff damage pools. Nathan does have 10/11 base accuracy pools, though)


I do have a question for @Iron: could Nathan Grapple Solosis and also mount Tropius Ditto to avoid the first EQ?  Or Grapple Solosis while on Tropius Ditto?

Morton's Fork is in effect here for us all, it seems, in wonderfully multi-layered way: We either go with a non-optimal but less risky strategy to slowly try to whittle down the Reunicli while they do the same (but most likely better) and preserve Solosis' life almost garenteed, or we go with a more risky but more damaging strategy that will most likely quickly void those blob's life warrenty, but it will most likely savage us all and get Solosis maimed or worse. With Plan A, we also then have to decide whether or not its a good idea to knock out the pillars or not. With Plan B, we then have to decide which person mount which Pokémon, and therefore which ones get to eat Earthquake damage.

Honestly, I think Plan C (Run Away and Tunnel Around) is for the best in light of that. We can retreat, KO Solosis (Honestly, OOC and IC its better to ALWAYS keep the bugger KOed, simply because it prevents more trouble), then simply find a way around the Renis without having to either get into a battle of attrition or brutalizing our character/ground bound Pokémon. If they follow, they'll be at a disadvantage, not us, so why not tuck our tails between our legs and flee?



I thought you were listing the Accuracy Pool of Razor Leaf, so my mistake!

[Dragonstrike]

Spoiler

Morton's Fork is in effect here for us all, it seems, in wonderfully multi-layered way: We either go with a non-optimal but less risky strategy to slowly try to whittle down the Reunicli while they do the same (but most likely better) and preserve Solosis' life almost garenteed, or we go with a more risky but more damaging strategy that will most likely quickly void those blob's life warrenty, but it will most likely savage us all and get Solosis maimed or worse. With Plan A, we also then have to decide whether or not its a good idea to knock out the pillars or not. With Plan B, we then have to decide which person mount which Pokémon, and therefore which ones get to eat Earthquake damage.

Honestly, I think Plan C (Run Away and Tunnel Around) is for the best in light of that. We can retreat, KO Solosis (Honestly, OOC and IC its better to ALWAYS keep the bugger KOed, simply because it prevents more trouble), then simply find a way around the Renis without having to either get into a battle of attrition or brutalizing our character/ground bound Pokémon. If they follow, they'll be at a disadvantage, not us, so why not tuck our tails between our legs and flee?

I honestly don't think running is a solution to the problem at this point.  Tunneling around is sketchy at best, and there's 0 guarantees we won't just run into these Reuniclus again because they'll still be ahead of us on the road to Atheneum.

We don't have to use EQ in Round 1, but nothing says we can't use it in Rounds 2+ after Solosis is taken care of and we're better prepared to try and stomach it ourselves.  (EQ is not a move built for usage in the midst of a large group, tbh)

OOC, I agree that keeping Solosis KOed would be easiest.  IC, however, I very strongly disagree.  Solosis still has daily needs that need to be fulfilled just like any other pokemon, and filling them becomes much more difficult if it's unconscious.  Plus, keeping it koed 24/7 for an extended period of time is cruel.

[Iron]

Spoiler

Then I would just suggest telling the guy if he tries to flee at this point, its VERY likely they'll get caught in the crossfire and get hurt/die horribly, and so should at least stick with them until AFTERWARD. It does have a sense of self preservation if I recall, albeit not a strong one. If they get away at THAT point, let nature take its course, as Nathan explicitly warned them of the consequences and tried to keep them safe despite them being an enemy, but they ignored him anyway and suffers accordingly, absolving him of a least MOST of the guilt associated with them getting maimed/killed. Unless they literally can't handle the thought of it dying for any reason at all, in which case I think your character has bigger problems with them than just getting away imo.

The difference /mitigating factors is that we have Revives and Potions to stigmy that threat, on top of Anti Earthquake Tactics, plus they might turn tail and flee if they get too damaged to fulfill their purpose/it seems like the cave is going to go *CRACK!*.

Add + 2 from Tailwind, and Razor Leaf has a 8/9 Base, and Malphena will be assisting with either Nasty Plot and Nevermelt Ice boost Icy Winds (Ghosts ignore cover, so would that uneuter Spread Move for her?) or Confuse each and everyone one of the blobs and then hit them with Hex (If not). Heart also can chip them down more quickly with Viktor, and Valder also has Haunter with Shadow Ball o' Pain, so between them all Mamo might not even have to do that many EQs (Maybe only 1-2 Per Round?) .

If we do that, we can't really use Earthquake without compounding the whole 'caving in the area' deal, but if Mamo gets spiked by a tag team effort then that's a good back up plan. If THAT fails, we could all just flee from them, then go with Plan C of Tunneling under/around them. We just don't have to stick with one plan, but have multiples just in case one fails. I still suggest we trying firing off at least 1-2 Earthquake in the first Round before resorting to Plan B (Pillar Smash and Spread Move Blitz) in the next if we all end up right nackered by EQ/Them.

One problem with that suggestion: just like Angelica in the Celadon campaign, Solosis (and these Reuniclus) are blindly loyal to a fault.  If it's told to fight or stays true to its (artificial) loyalty now that there's an opportunity, it will fight no matter what Nathan tells it.  Nathan wants Solosis alive for two reasons: so he can work on finding a way to restore its emotions/will if at all possible (or sebd it to someone who can) and to have physical proof for Dagny/Tanuki that something bad is going on.  Can't do either if Solosis is dead.  Nathan could handle it dying but...that would kinda be a huge setback, and he'd be incredibly irritated about it.

The Scimitars aren't going to tell those Reuniclus to flee.  They don't care for them as anything but tools from what we know about the group.

I'm all for trying to handle them with EQ provided we can mitigate things enough, but it's definitely not a move we can just fire off willy nilly.  If that doesn't finish the job, then we're probably going to have to handle the blobs 1 by 1.  I am still slightly worried that our grounded mons are gonna get rekt by EQ, resisted hit or no.  -1 damage can only do so much against such a huge damage pool.  (btw, Tailwind doesn't buff damage pools. Nathan does have 10/11 base accuracy pools, though)

I do have a question for @Iron: could Nathan Grapple Solosis and also mount Tropius Ditto to avoid the first EQ?  Or Grapple Solosis while on Tropius Ditto?

That would be two actions, but if you mounted first and then grappled it'd be fine. Where is Solosis, in your backpack? It'd take it an action to climb on out of there.

[Dragonstrike]

Where is Solosis, in your backpack? It'd take it an action to climb on out of there.

Most likely, since we're in narrow corridors where it'd be hard to keep track of if it wasn't. I haven't really specified much, tbh.

It would be a wonderfully easy solution to the conundrum, though (retcon exempted)

[Lord Windos]

I honestly don't think running is a solution to the problem at this point.  Tunneling around is sketchy at best, and there's 0 guarantees we won't just run into these Reuniclus again because they'll still be ahead of us on the road to Atheneum.

We don't have to use EQ in Round 1, but nothing says we can't use it in Rounds 2+ after Solosis is taken care of and we're better prepared to try and stomach it ourselves.  (EQ is not a move built for usage in the midst of a large group, tbh)

OOC, I agree that keeping Solosis KOed would be easiest.  IC, however, I very strongly disagree.  Solosis still has daily needs that need to be fulfilled just like any other pokemon, and filling them becomes much more difficult if it's unconscious.  Plus, keeping it koed 24/7 for an extended period of time is cruel.

True on both fronts, but if we run into them again into a place where their isn't a lot of cover for them to play wack a mole with us, then taking them out then become a whole lot easier. Its always an option if it turns out the Reunicli are designed to be total bastards to fight right here or in general, so don't totally discount it!

Fair enough, but that means we can't really knock out pillars until after Round 2, and have to do our damnest not to get whittle into oblivion by those blobs. Yeah, I wish EQ was specific in that it only targeted Pokémon unless otherwise indicated, but thems the breaks we have to work aroud.

IC, Ven don't give a damn about Solosis' wellbeing at ALL and would prefer it unconscious 24/7 (if only for the convenyance) since they can't ball it and killing it would enrage Nathan beyond cooperation, and he also has experience taking care of Pokémon in that state due to his occupation as a Disobedient Pokémon Researcher, so that ain't a problem. Additionaly, Shiva is outright apathetic to its existence, Valder has no opinion, and from what I can tell Heart doesn't really care about it either and looks upon them with suspicion, so only Nathan would be willing to advocate it be kept awake. With that being the case, I could have Ven rally the other group members to argue and contrive a reason IC for Nathan to keep Solosis Fainted forever, or re-assign their care to someone willing to KO them 24/7, if that would be fine with you Dragonstrike.

One thing I really dislike is when IC stuff prevents other, more easy options being taken, or causes problems that can't really be solved, so this method of using IC to eliminate IC sounds like a sound idea to me.

[Dragonstrike]

Spoiler

True on both fronts, but if we run into them again into a place where their isn't a lot of cover for them to play wack a mole with us, then taking them out then become a whole lot easier. Its always an option if it turns out the Reunicli are designed to be total bastards to fight right here or in general, so don't totally discount it!

Fair enough, but that means we can't really knock out pillars until after Round 2, and have to do our damnest not to get whittle into oblivion by those blobs. Yeah, I wish EQ was specific in that it only targeted Pokémon unless otherwise indicated, but thems the breaks we have to work aroud.

IC, Ven don't give a damn about Solosis' wellbeing at ALL and would prefer it unconscious 24/7 (if only for the convenyance) since they can't ball it and killing it would enrage Nathan beyond cooperation, and he also has experience taking care of Pokémon in that state due to his occupation as a Disobedient Pokémon Researcher, so that ain't a problem. Additionaly, Shiva is outright apathetic to its existence, Valder has no opinion, and from what I can tell Heart doesn't really care about it either and looks upon them with suspicion, so only Nathan would be willing to advocate it be kept awake. With that being the case, I could have Ven rally the other group members to argue and contrive a reason IC for Nathan to keep Solosis Fainted forever, or re-assign their care to someone willing to KO them 24/7, if that would be fine with you Dragonstrike.

One thing I really dislike is when IC stuff prevents other, more easy options being taken, or causes problems that can't really be solved, so this method of using IC to eliminate IC sounds like a sound idea to me.

One more negative I would like to point out about postponing this battle: if we run, we'll be Exhausted the next time we run into them.  That would just make it even harder than it already is.  Particularly since Nathan is the only member of the party that can comfortably stomach (a small amount of) exhaustion.

AOEs are pretty non-discriminate, yeah.  The only ones truly safe from those attacks are those with immunities, the ones not on the battlefield, the ones with enough skill to dodge the move, and the user itself.  Everyone else in the immediate area around the attacker just gets slammed.

Actions matter in and around Atheneum.  Just want to drop that reminder.  Plus, after we reach the location, I don't think Solosis will be an issue.

Assuming Iron is fine with Solosis being in Nathan's bag at the start of all this, I think most of the major issues concerning it are remedied in that case.  It won't be immediately on the battlefield, and Nathan's close enough to deal with it himself if it becomes a problem.

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

One more negative I would like to point out about postponing this battle: if we run, we'll be Exhausted the next time we run into them.  That would just make it even harder than it already is.  Particularly since Nathan is the only member of the party that can comfortably stomach (a small amount of) exhaustion.

(...)

Actions matter in and around Atheneum.  Just want to drop that reminder.  Plus, after we reach the location, I don't think Solosis will be an issue.

Assuming Iron is fine with Solosis being in Nathan's bag at the start of all this, I think most of the major issues concerning it are remedied in that case.  It won't be immediately on the battlefield, and Nathan's close enough to deal with it himself if it becomes a problem.

Ah, I didn't think of that. Exhaustion is a pain in the arse to deal with, but its not as big of a deal compared to fighting in unfavorable conditions such as these. If Solosis can be contained and not become a nuisance during the battle, though, then staying for at least a Round and see how that turns is okay with me, and after everyone is done prepped after the first round is when the Earthquakes can a start rolling. How many remains to be seen, but hopefully they'll be enough to wipe those blobs out like a napkin on a gravy stain! If they get out and join the battle, however, Ven not going to discriminate or tell Valder to hold the Earthquakes/Powder Snows. Just FYI, mate.

Yes, yes, I know. No need to bludgeon me over the head or wield that fact against me for offering a solution, mate. Killing or keeping an souless enemy spy perma KOed and out of trouble is hardly an 'evil' thing (though we can agree its a rather brutal), but if Ven's deemed 'unworthy' of Antheneum for merely suggesting thus, much less carry the plan out, he can just turn his nose up on the play and set up a defensive perimeter/blockade away from it. *Sighs* Its situation like this that make me wish sometimes Nathan were a little more pragmatic than not....

Let's hope so, mate. Otherwise, things will become complicated and unwieldy fast.