[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[Lord Windos]

….Well, Foreright is not going to have a good time with that fact brought up. Not to sound like I am complaining, but if Weather utilization is entirely based on environment conditions (Something I find not fun/convenient for gameplay, but its your game and mechanics, Iron), then clear indications of whether or not its possible to set it up from the get go would be helpful. That way we players don't end up bringing a Weather using Pokémon to battle and/or sending them out with a plan in mind, only for it to get derailed and left in a bad spot.

It's naturally that you can't just change the weather indoors, scenically that'd be just weird - and it's known, or so I thought? I had to take some Actions to set up sunshine in Zamboni's Gym as well.

My dear, this is a difference in philosophy we have here. I believe that Game Mechanics (In regards to Moves) should trump any sense of realism or IRL logic, in order for more fun to be had in game, to give players more options/choices to utlizie, and simply make things less constricted and more convenient. 

Using logic/thematics, it IS neat that Weather can't be used without Abilities or the conditions are right, but for the player with a Pokémon that is specialized/centered around Weather, or would benefits greatly from it....well, its not so fun, and hampers them unnecessarily, imo. It would be weird if Weather would be called anytime, but is that BAD per say? Heck, given the Earth Power system and how much Legendary/Mythical/Pure Supernaturl Power floats about, summoning Weather anytime, any condition really shouldn't be too much to ask for, and it shouldn't blatantly break the game if that is one reason Iron has made weather harder to set up. If he's trying to encourage creativity in setting it up or simply limit it, there are other way to do either without outright preventing its usage if the conditions aren't right.

That's my stance on the matter, and it hasn't really changed since Iron introduced his version of the Weather System.

[Dragonstrike]

Maybe Forthright could use Weather Ball to dislodge some dust from a particularly dusty nook/high up Furret tube that's less likely to have been well dusted?  A cloud impacting a spot like that and then dissipating would be bound to spread some dust around.  Just need enough to start the Sandstorm, and there's always at least a little dust in the air to help contribute to that.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Original Post

….Well, Foreright is not going to have a good time with that fact brought up. Not to sound like I am complaining, but if Weather utilization is entirely based on environment conditions (Something I find not fun/convenient for gameplay, but its your game and mechanics, Iron), then clear indications of whether or not its possible to set it up from the get go would be helpful. That way we players don't end up bringing a Weather using Pokémon to battle and/or sending them out with a plan in mind, only for it to get derailed and left in a bad spot.

It's naturally that you can't just change the weather indoors, scenically that'd be just weird - and it's known, or so I thought? I had to take some Actions to set up sunshine in Zamboni's Gym as well.

My dear, this is a difference in philosophy we have here. I believe that Game Mechanics (In regards to Moves) should trump any sense of realism or IRL logic, in order for more fun to be had in game, to give players more options/choices to utlizie, and simply make things less constricted and more convenient. 

Using logic/thematics, it IS neat that Weather can't be used without Abilities or the conditions are right, but for the player with a Pokémon that is specialized/centered around Weather, or would benefits greatly from it....well, its not so fun, and hampers them unnecessarily, imo. It would be weird if Weather would be called anytime, but is that BAD per say? Heck, given the Earth Power system and how much Legendary/Mythical/Pure Supernaturl Power floats about, summoning Weather anytime, any condition really shouldn't be too much to ask for, and it shouldn't blatantly break the game if that is one reason Iron has made weather harder to set up. If he's trying to encourage creativity in setting it up or simply limit it, there are other way to do either without outright preventing its usage if the conditions aren't right.

That's my stance on the matter, and it hasn't really changed since Iron introduced his version of the Weather System.

I think we can agree to mildly disagree on this matter, my love? Like, I prefer to think completely scenically on the matter of 'changing the weather indoors', there practically is no weather occuring within enclosed rooms that you could play around with. I don't want to completely disagree to your thinking about how Game Mechanics should trump logic though, as if thinking about more, I'd certainly find things that I'd edit as a GM in order to make the Game better, but I'd also be adamant about 'no weather indoors without a set up, neither sunshine in caves or underwater (at night would depend on the circumstances)'.

Pokemon World is based on our real world, and I'm actually greatly enjoying this 'natural' feeling here in Chreshire. Yes to weird supernatural forces, but no to them flying around constantly.

I don't really feel that I'm hampered by not being able to cast hail/sunshine/rain anytime and anywhere despite I'm having indeed having several Pokemon centered around it/that'd benefit from, as where would we get to if I could exploit their benefits outright always? o.o That'd make it something ordinary for me and kill of that treasured feeling of sucessfully having set up the weather in a battle, and sweetens the sight of the things triggered against a foe.

[Dragonstrike]

Note for @Spiritmon: Sandstorm only increases the Defense of Rock types, so Golett won't receive the +2 Defense from the weather (and if Percival were to Mega Evolve into the Canon Mega Aggron, he'd lose that +2 Defense as well since M-Aggron is a pure Steel type instead of Steel/Rock).  It is, however, still immune to Sandstorm's chip damage, which is a good thing.

[Spiritmon]

Note for @Spiritmon: Sandstorm only increases the Defense of Rock types, so Golett won't receive the +2 Defense.  It is, however, still immune to Sandstorm's chip damage, which is a good thing.

I remember that when I was looking again the effects of Sandstorm. At least he will not receive damage from the Sandstorm, and he will be able to land a few strong hits.

[Lord Windos]

I think we can agree to mildly disagree on this matter, my love? Like, I prefer to think completely scenically on the matter of 'changing the weather indoors', there practically is no weather occuring within enclosed rooms that you could play around with. I don't want to completely disagree to your thinking about how Game Mechanics should trump logic though, as if thinking about more, I'd certainly find things that I'd edit as a GM in order to make the Game better, but I'd also be adamant about 'no weather indoors without a set up, neither sunshine in caves or underwater (at night would depend on the circumstances)'.

Pokemon World is based on our real world, and I'm actually greatly enjoying this 'natural' feeling here in Chreshire. Yes to weird supernatural forces, but no to them flying around constantly.

I don't really feel that I'm hampered by not being able to cast hail/sunshine/rain anytime and anywhere despite I'm having indeed having several Pokemon centered around it/that'd benefit from, as where would we get to if I could exploit their benefits outright always? o.o That'd make it something ordinary for me and kill of that treasured feeling of sucessfully having set up the weather in a battle, and sweetens the sight of the things triggered against a foe.

We can. For me, scenic comes dead last in a Combat heavy game, and I disagree with the notion that weather can't happen indoors. IRL, we have systems set up for that, micro climates exist unnaturely in those places, etc.. With Pokémon Moves being so 'magical', anything should be possible with them so long as it doesn't break any hard, mechanical rules in place for them. If you were adamant on 'no weather without set up/right conditions' , I'd probably not use weather at ALL in your game and leave the system to rot, since the more hassle that comes with using a Move/strategy, the less I want to utilize. In that scenario, neither of us wins, so either compromise happens, or we both deal with losing.

Yes, but Pokémon is also NOT our real world, no matter how much it parallels it. That, and this IS a game: abnormal and non natural stuff is a given, and easy Weather set up isn't even a blip on the Wierdness Scale.

That's your opinion, which I will have to disagree with. A-V. has an Ability that auto generates Hail no matter what, so it entirely circumvent normal rules/logical, and therefore isn't a 'good' , if we use you perspective. In my opinion, the sheer utility and usefulness of instant weather, any time, any where trumps complicated set up-pay off and feeling accomplished for it afterwards. After all, the more/sooner you can use Weather, the more benefit you get out of it, and the greater positive effect it will have. If you have to set it up but something happens to undermine the stragtegy/takes out the benefiting Pokémon, then you get nothing out of it, and you feel pretty crummy I imagine.

Again, this is my opinion, so you can disagree with it if you want. I just don't think you can convince me to adopt yours on this matter, sad as that is to say. I just like easy/useful/empowering, fun gameplay over natural, scenic/thematic gameplay THAT much.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Ah, now I see the reason for that varying philosophy: I'm not seeing the game as directly combat-heavy. Battles occur and are a vital part, but it's not everything as otherwise, we'd only battle and not go on quests? Ah, and none said that you should adopt my thinking, dear! D: Really not, I'm not expecting that, no worries. It's simple discussing and haring viewpoints...?

None forces you to use weather effects if you don't want to in a dreamed-up faaaaaar off in the future sandbox-like Game of mine, I could never expect myself doing so either. Depends heavily on the team build up I'd guess. Compromises can always be agreed from my side though.

I'm still playing around with/testing white Vulpix and her skill to cast hailstorms, I'd be suprised if she can do so indoors as well. Corebook DOES say a Pokemon with Snow Warning creates that weather at will, this sounds to me like like it'd work within an enclosed room to a degree - but not enough to create a hailstorm that strong to damage each Round?

Microclimates do exist indeed, good thought - but I struggle reason things with them. ._.

[Iron]

Maybe Forthright could use Weather Ball to dislodge some dust from a particularly dusty nook/high up Furret tube that's less likely to have been well dusted?  A cloud impacting a spot like that and then dissipating would be bound to spread some dust around.  Just need enough to start the Sandstorm, and there's always at least a little dust in the air to help contribute to that.

That would work. It's not too different than the Scimitars using an attack to chop up some metal and produce a sandstorm of their own.

Something like a Hippopotas or a Legendary could probably summon a sandstorm indoors without any setup.

As for Windos' thoughts, I have no problem with the interpretation that a Pokemon would be strong enough to summon weather indoors, it's just not how I've been interpreting it and it's too late to change it without good reason. Sunny Day is the weather that makes least sense indoors, so it does seem sort of fair to keep all the weathers on a level playing field. 
The rulebook explicitly says you can't summon Sunny Day indoors. I do like the creativity this rule has brought out, starting with Shiva's ice mirrors in Zamboni's Gym.

Anyway, that's the rule for this campaign, maybe we will see a different interpretation in the next one.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Thank you for being fair on this issue. Appreciated!

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

That would work. It's not too different than the Scimitars using an attack to chop up some metal and produce a sandstorm of their own.

Something like a Hippopotas or a Legendary could probably summon a sandstorm indoors without any setup.

As for Windos' thoughts, I have no problem with the interpretation that a Pokemon would be strong enough to summon weather indoors, it's just not how I've been interpreting it and it's too late to change it without good reason. Sunny Day is the weather that makes least sense indoors, so it does seem sort of fair to keep all the weathers on a level playing field. 
The rulebook explicitly says you can't summon Sunny Day indoors. I do like the creativity this rule has brought out, starting with Shiva's ice mirrors in Zamboni's Gym.

Anyway, that's the rule for this campaign, maybe we will see a different interpretation in the next one.

Fair enough, especially if its for consistency's shake and balancing out how limited Sunny Day is by Corebook ruling. I maintain my stance that creativity with weather could be brought out in other ways that complicated set up that may or may not pay out/'wastes' Actions, but that is just my opinion.

There's going to be another campaign? I though you were going to take a good, LONG break after this one, and leave the players to come up with theirs (Like what I have done)?