[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[Dragonstrike]

Also, @Iron  , was Empathy added to Shiva's Roll against Charmeleon? Since she and now Ventus has a point in it, and that specialty seems especially relevant when it comes to communicating/negotiating with Pokémon/People , and that she's only 1 Success away from getting the darn fire breathing lizard to listen/not misbehave, why not add it in and see if it changes things? The worst that can happen is nothing happens at all, so....

Reminder that Nathan has a point in it too

[Lord Windos]

Hmmm...

...well, here's one potential reason why it could be a bad idea: Ao doesn't necessarily have to attack Shiva's fairies if he gets...temperamental.

And since he'd be in a battle that he would probably know he wouldn't win, well...if he was forced to do it anyways, that could end...badly.  Though I doubt Ventus would force Ao into something like that if he didn't want to participate, right?

Anyways...yeah, intentionally putting certain Disobedient pokemon into difficult situations like that isn't exactly...safe.

Ah, targeting the squishies. Hmm, that COULD be a problem, one that Ventus would most likely solve with BLOODY MURDER if his Sealord tried to maim Shiva. That'll be something Ao have to be briefed about before hand to gauge if he agrees not to target Shiva if he gets angry, or instead only direct it at Ventus himself, since he's a tough man and can take a hit a still walk around (Albiet with great pain if its a Max Damage Dragon Danced Crit Dragon Pulse/Bubble Beam in Rain [Either 5D6 or 6D6 Damage, which is rather impressive tanking])!

That, and Ventus will ask if Ao Guang WANTS to test his mettle against two Fairy types in a honorable battle. If he goes 'Shan't !!!' , my dark goofball of a character will simply drop the matter altogether. Forcing a Dragon type to do ANYTHING it doesn't want to do without earning its fully Loyalty and Happiness is a extremely terrible idea; even if you do have that its still not a very good one, and as a Opelucid Dragon Loving Pokémon Sociologist with a focus on Disobedience Pokémon, your sure as hecky can bet my character has this ingrained into his heart!

[Lord Windos]

Also, @Iron  , was Empathy added to Shiva's Roll against Charmeleon? Since she and now Ventus has a point in it, and that specialty seems especially relevant when it comes to communicating/negotiating with Pokémon/People , and that she's only 1 Success away from getting the darn fire breathing lizard to listen/not misbehave, why not add it in and see if it changes things? The worst that can happen is nothing happens at all, so....

Reminder that Nathan has a point in it too

Since I can't take a gander at that character sheet when I'm board/overly curious , it must have escaped me mind! Sorry about that, mate!

[Iron]

Hmmm...

...well, here's one potential reason why it could be a bad idea: Ao doesn't necessarily have to attack Shiva's fairies if he gets...temperamental.

And since he'd be in a battle that he would probably know he wouldn't win, well...if he was forced to do it anyways, that could end...badly.  Though I doubt Ventus would force Ao into something like that if he didn't want to participate, right?

Anyways...yeah, intentionally putting certain Disobedient pokemon into difficult situations like that isn't exactly...safe.

Ah, targeting the squishies. Hmm, that COULD be a problem, one that Ventus would most likely solve with BLOODY MURDER if his Sealord tried to maim Shiva. That'll be something Ao have to be briefed about before hand to gauge if he agrees not to target Shiva if he gets angry, or instead only direct it at Ventus himself, since he's a tough man and can take a hit a still walk around (Albiet with great pain if its a Max Damage Dragon Danced Crit Dragon Pulse/Bubble Beam in Rain [Either 5D6 or 6D6 Damage, which is rather impressive tanking])!

That, and Ventus will ask if Ao Guang WANTS to test his mettle against two Fairy types in a honorable battle. If he goes 'Shan't !!!' , my dark goofball of a character will simply drop the matter altogether. Forcing a Dragon type to do ANYTHING it doesn't want to do without earning its fully Loyalty and Happiness is a extremely terrible idea; even if you do have that its still not a very good one, and as a Opelucid Dragon Loving Pokémon Sociologist with a focus on Disobedience Pokémon, your sure as hecky can bet my character has this ingrained into his heart!

You two have already covered most of it. A Pokemon with 4 Disobedience and a propensity for violence has a LOT of very dangerous options for disobedience, including attacking humans, using moves that are 'against the rules,' or doing things that might hurt itself. And since the battle is not life or death, and has a ton of restrictions on fun stuff, it is likely to feel even more like a drag to the dragon.

As for Shiva's Empathy, yeah I'll add that. But Shiva tied Charmeleon's score, so she didn't get a failure, persay. She told it to find some way other than fire to defeat the Iron Ball, and it did - it found an attack that ignores typing.

Since Ventus is a sociologist, I'll give you a peek into the mechanics of this battle. Ao will get a Loyalty (1) vs Disobedience (4) roll every time he is asked to obey an unfun order - that's per attack. If Loyalty success = Disobedience success, he does as ordered. If it fails by a little, he will "loaf about" or similar. If it fails by more, he could use a more deadly and fun combination. If he rolls full failure mode, he will go on a rampage and his relationship with Ventus is quite likely to be damaged. A lot of these nonlethal possibilities would end the battle prematurely, making me wonder if it would be at all worth it to you.

[Lord Windos]

You two have already covered most of it. A Pokemon with 4 Disobedience and a propensity for violence has a LOT of very dangerous options for disobedience, including attacking humans, using moves that are 'against the rules,' or doing things that might hurt itself. And since the battle is not life or death, and has a ton of restrictions on fun stuff, it is likely to feel even more like a drag to the dragon.

As for Shiva's Empathy, yeah I'll add that. But Shiva tied Charmeleon's score, so she didn't get a failure, persay. She told it to find some way other than fire to defeat the Iron Ball, and it did - it found an attack that ignores typing.

Well, when you put it as such, I can see why you would interpret Ao Guang going either ballistic or being especially surely in that battle, so Ventus will retract his idea /change his mind about battling with Ao Guang. Problem now is that I was hoping/interpreting that he would actually enjoy beating the snot out of Fairy types and have targets that wouldn't just distigrate if he so much as sneezed at them the wrong way. Sorta like how Lucifer hates Ice types, and wants nothing more than to smash and dash them if at all possible, I was hoping the might Sealord would get a sense of fulfiment/challenge against taking on such odds, and maybe stroke his ego that it would take TWO Fairy types any hope of beating him in regular combat.

That is how I saw it intially, but as you pointed out he can take the exact opposite approach to being put in such a fight. At the very least I'm getting to learn a bit more about the boundries of Ven's latest dragon/how that battle would turn out, so this proposal wasn't a total waste of thought~! Thanks for clarifying things, Iron, 'cause if you didn't things, then they would have at some unfortunate point....

[Iron]

That may be an attitude to cultivate for the future! I think in a battle against a reluctant, beloved battler with small, fragile Pokemon is just not the time to try it ^_^

The psychology of an abandoned Pokemon can be complex.

[Lord Windos]

That may be an attitude to cultivate for the future! I think in a battle against a reluctant, beloved battler with small, fragile Pokemon is just not the time to try it ^_^

The psychology of an abandoned Pokemon can be complex.

I am in total agreement with you, as Ao Guang becoming more Good Noble Dragon/Competitively Spirited Dragon over time is only a great thing to stride towards! Sometimes ideas are bad and wouldn't pan out so well when put into practice, so I'm rather glad you put the brakes on this before either I or Shiva could crash and burn. That, and I still got to learn more about the Sealord and what could constitute as a 'safe' or 'worthy' battle for it without RAMPAGE!!! , so I consider that a boon indeed!

For another topic altogether, would Director North allow Ventus to fight Charmeleon with Apsis to teach it to respect the Strength/Abilities of beings other than himself, and perhaps humble them a bit? It wouldn't be the first time Ven's had to beat some sense into a Disobedient Pokémon to get them to behave/learn/see the error of their ways , though he much more prefers the 'Love Not War!' approach in most instances. Additionally, Ventus actually wouldn't get too upset if Charmeleon decided to get a bit Lethal with its moves, since in this instance he's deliberately trying to handle and teach a particularly unruly lizard good behavior/respect otherd, so getting roughed up is just part of the experience. Not that he'll be happy about it, mind you, but he's not going to get murderous or angry if the lizard does indulge in lethality, and he doesn't want them to feel even MORE threatened by the Water types that could douse its life force in an instant....

How much longer are you going to be on tonight, btw? Just want to know so that I can decide if I cant put off posting until later whne I'm not so tired right now.

[Dragonstrike]

I am in total agreement with you, as Ao Guang becoming more Good Noble Dragon/Competitively Spirited Dragon over time is only a great thing to stride towards! Sometimes ideas are bad and wouldn't pan out so well when put into practice, so I'm rather glad you put the brakes on this before either I or Shiva could crash and burn. That, and I still got to learn more about the Sealord and what could constitute as a 'safe' or 'worthy' battle for it without RAMPAGE!!! , so I consider that a boon indeed!

All this talk about a rampaging Kingdra is reminding me of the various ones in the Celadon campaign...

...lots of those (and other dragons) over there. Not pretty.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Reluctant, beloved battler with small, fragile Pokemon made me smile, and it's delighted to see that the weird stuff I've thought out has reached Charmeleon to teach him a bit of respect. <3

Ao Guang knows NO Lethal Moves, can't use Dragon type ones (His most powerful moves), can fight in a dry eviron. to prevent Swift Swim from triggering/powering up Brine or Bubble, and Both Cottenee and Marill take - 1 Damage from ANY attack besides Strike or Knockdown, which are absolutely pitful in most circumstances, and has to divide his attention between two Fairies types that can A) Tag Team him B) SE or Freeze him , C) Heal off the damage (Cottenee) , or D) Majorly amp up their attacks on it (Helping Hand from Marill).

B) would be a theoretical/sentimental things as you asked not to use the currently only Fairy-STAB within my rows *sniff*, but given how hard it could hit Ao if powered up by HelpingHand and Critting I agreed to that, even if combined with C) it'd mean that Cottonee would be soft-forced to indeed rely on Strike/Knockdown/other mischievous things that would come to my mind to maybe deal a bit of damage, I'm not quite sure whether Cottonee would enjoy this either, even if the bond between her and Master forged lasts for life.

Though, the thought of this Kingdra going on a rampage and in the end attacking Shiva... That scares me and would have aftermaths for everyone involved that I'd rather not deal with, to be honest. ._. Cottonee (or actually both her and Marill) could also disobey upon seeing that their Master is in danger, and counterattack with a single HelpingHand-FairyWind to ward the dragon off, which in return will either knock Ao out if lucky or fuel his rage even more if unlucky, causing Ven to likely put himself into danger as well to handle the situation and his Pokemon... Hey, that'd feel like a cool scene, but no.

We can always have a battle Kingdra vs Fairies at some other point during the Canpaign, Windos, maybe when he obeys orders? Though by then Shiva has likely more aces up in her sleeve, which probably decreases the chance for Ao to win... But as long as it's a fun battle and we can agree special condictions, I'm all open for that!~ I'm letting you post now concerning Charmeleon and further progress before I'll get to quickvisit Department Store + call Prof. Mallorn to wrap up Shiva's Day and have her cuddle up to Ven while drifting away into night's sleep.

[Iron]

That may be an attitude to cultivate for the future! I think in a battle against a reluctant, beloved battler with small, fragile Pokemon is just not the time to try it ^_^

The psychology of an abandoned Pokemon can be complex.

I am in total agreement with you, as Ao Guang becoming more Good Noble Dragon/Competitively Spirited Dragon over time is only a great thing to stride towards! Sometimes ideas are bad and wouldn't pan out so well when put into practice, so I'm rather glad you put the brakes on this before either I or Shiva could crash and burn. That, and I still got to learn more about the Sealord and what could constitute as a 'safe' or 'worthy' battle for it without RAMPAGE!!! , so I consider that a boon indeed!

For another topic altogether, would Director North allow Ventus to fight Charmeleon with Apsis to teach it to respect the Strength/Abilities of beings other than himself, and perhaps humble them a bit? It wouldn't be the first time Ven's had to beat some sense into a Disobedient Pokémon to get them to behave/learn/see the error of their ways , though he much more prefers the 'Love Not War!' approach in most instances. Additionally, Ventus actually wouldn't get too upset if Charmeleon decided to get a bit Lethal with its moves, since in this instance he's deliberately trying to handle and teach a particularly unruly lizard good behavior/respect otherd, so getting roughed up is just part of the experience. Not that he'll be happy about it, mind you, but he's not going to get murderous or angry if the lizard does indulge in lethality, and he doesn't want them to feel even MORE threatened by the Water types that could douse its life force in an instant....

That sounds fine. Pokemon learn best when they are taken down to 1hp and can feel that utter defeat with their full consciousness. Fainting them also works, but can cause more of a resentment effect.