[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[Lord Windos]

Eh, I guess I rather not even bring up some Apricorn Dust to him in the first place then, as it'd be pretty saddening to see Raphael having given up on Ven o.o He directly expressed to Shiva in the mystic cavern of the Sentry Fern that Ven has a special meaning to him and that he's determined to work on issues between them as well, so that somehow speaks against it, too.

But maybe I can offer him a Friend Ball for the time he's with Shiva. Would it also be alright for you if I'd spent XP on him for suprises? (I do wish to hold a few battles with him after all.) And whoahw, you've 'kept' Michael?!

Thank you!

Fine with me, as they are pretty much your Pokémon, and Ven wouldn't mind if their child learned ANY new tricks under your care, so go wild with TMs and Surprise! They already have a + 1 Evasion one for a long time ago, which I have ironically have evaded putting to use since Corsage, and now never will! Ohohohoho!

Yeap! It was a choice between them and Haziel, and I wanted Terra to have the Pokémon I have arguably spent the most time making sure they where good, in between the XP/Poke costs of Mind Reader, Spore, Drain Punch, Façade, Stone Edge, and Mach Punch. That, and I felt Terra and them would get along swell, and the monk would prefer a Fighter rather than a quick means of transport. Well, ANOTHER one, anyways.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Yeap! It was a choice between them and Haziel, and I wanted Terra to have the Pokémon I have arguably spent the most time making sure they where good, in between the XP/Poke costs of Mind Reader, Spore, Drain Punch, Façade, Stone Edge, and Mach Punch. That, and I felt Terra and them would get along swell, and the monk would prefer a Fighter rather than a quick means of transport. Well, ANOTHER one, anyways.

Good choice.☆ He (Terra) seems to have an affinity for Fighting Types...

Oh, Raphael has a +1 Evasion Suprise?? I'll add that, didn't know, thanks for telling! Because I usually never evade though the practical use is relatively low ^^; Humm, more Brawl for more Sky Attacks and Extreme Speeds would be good, or Allure for more accurate SweetKisses, AfterYous and Charms and Encores. Or simply more Dexterity as he's a flying fae-bird? A Fairy-STAB would be good as well, but not necessary directly I guess. Let's see, yet undisclosed!

[Lord Windos]

Hey guys, I did some data crunching about STR vs Lift Capacity (kg) and DEX vs Speed (kmph) , partially out of curiosity, partially because I was bored, and came to some pretty....interesting conclusions, though admittedly the accuracy of them is a bit janky. Anyone interested in seeing and/or hearing about the result?

Lengthy explanation or not, I'm interested in hearing this.

But I am. What is the facts you discover my friend?

Sorry it took so long to getting to this, but let me now begin my lecture: On how STR and DEX affect Lifting and Land Speed Capacity!

To preface this, the methods and data I used are not totally accurate, due to their essentially being no defined value for 0 STR or DEX, and that the generated data for either category, while liner with and close to, are not necessary perfectly so with the presented values listed in the book from 1 - 10. More on these details later!

Okay, now on to the juicy bits!

How much can you lift, brah?

Let's start of strong (he he) and talk about how much STR influence Weight Lifting Capacity!

When I looked up that table on a whim to see if I could detect a pattern, I pretty soon found out that, while their are a few internal consistencies (Like their being a 10 fold increase between out right double a given STR Value Vs Lift), the data points between the given values have....uneven or consistent increases. Can't make a reasonable guess when the data is unreasonable, so...


….Since that was the case, I decided that the right course of action was to generate a Curve Graph with the data ( with the Points in STR being the X Values and the Lift Capacity (in kg) being the y values), with them being ordered from 1 - 10. I then calculated the Slope and Y intercept for the graph, which I then used to generate an equation that would give me a given y value (Lift) for a corresponding x value (STR). I THEN calculated the Percent Error for the graph, using the value I generated by inputing 10 STR into my equation. As a final bonus, I also decided to add a way for a value for what the mass would be in lbs to be automatically generated along side the output for kgs

The final equation and results: y = 72.12x - 86.67 , and % Error of 6.76 .

Calculated Value for Lift (Y) for 10 STR: ~634 kg
Actual Value: 680 kg

The obvious flaw in this equation is that if you input 0 as a value, you end up getting NEGATIVE lift capacity, which either means you are dealing with negative mass or acceleration at some point (Since Lifting weight essentially boils down to a F = ma ), both of which are impossible and....interesting. If an object has a - mass, that object will exponentally accelerate towards a object with Positive mass, which is both impossible for any good number of reasons AND a quick way to reach realitivistic speeds, and if an object has negative acceleration, that either means an object or force just ceases to exist past a threshold (since less that 0 means less than not moving at ALL, which is logical nothing), or that an object gets 'stiller' towards a given value of - acceleration, which has some rather interesting consequences (either it makes an object harder or impossible to move without applying a great and pos. accel to it, or it would end up 'frozen' at a given - accel value at a given point in space-time) and both are impossible as we know it.

The other flaw is that the data falls just about the p < .05 cut off point used in traditional statistics, which means this data is not seen as being 'a significant change' or totally accurate with the actual data points. 

Still, the % Error is low enough that this can be reasonable ignored, and all non-zero values for X given a positive y-value that is 'close' to the actual values, so a approx. Lift value for a given STR value can still be calculated with some confidence.

Now, why did I do all this dry and tedious calcs, you may ask? Why, I wanted to see how much a Pokémon could lift beyond 10 STR, of course! 'Wait, that's impossible. No Pokémon except for Legendaries or ones with BS Plot Devices/Surprises can do that,' you might say! Wrong! Their are currently two methods that exist for a given Pokémon to go PAST what is capable of being lifted with 10 STR, and they are the following: Possessing the Ability Huge/Pure Power, and using the move Strength. Each double how much a Pokémon can Lift at a given STR, so this can lead to....interesting conclusions.

Let's go with one of the most extreme and probable example that could happen in the campaign: A Huge Power Azumarill that knows Strength AND Belly Drum (Oh look, another move that Shiva could tutor her Fae Mouse!), and with a Trainer that has 6 STR due to having the right Badges. At 6 STR, Diggersby is already capable of a Lift Capacity = 12 STR, or ~779 kg (1716 lbs) due to Huge Power, but if they use B.D. that jumps straight up to 18, or ~ 1211 kg (2670 lbs). Now, factor in them using Strength (which DOES stack with Huge/Pure Power), and that value jumps to a staggering max possible Lift Capacity of 39 STR, or 2726 kg (6009 lbs).

For comparison, that is about 2000 lbs heavier than most modern automobiles on the market today, and if any of that Lift Capacity transfer into Pulling or Crushing Strength, then its no hyperbole to say that a fully roided bunny rabbit could probally toss around cars like tennis balls, probably tear through reinforced steel, or at least make a solid effort at do either/both. Only other Pokémon with Huge/Pure Power with/without Strength OR a Legendary (which probably has a Lift Capacity independent of its STR) could match those values, making a simple Azumarill THE strongest normal Pokémon in the world if set up right.

Monty Python was right to instill a deep fear into bunny wabbits, with results like these!

Next post, I'll be discussing the calcs for DEX, so stay tunned mates!

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

I like Azu a little more now. ^^

[Dragonstrike]

And now you see why...

a) Attributes cannot be reduced to 0 or less in the base rules
b) Team Rocket stole the Creshire League's Strength HM shortly before disbanding



Ah, look at you, throwing science and statistics at us like it's nothing. Definitely looking forward to seeing what you came up with for Dex.



I would like to point out one potential error in the reasoning, however.  Double Lifting Capacity/Movement speed isn't necessarily equivalent to having Double the Strength/Dex.  For example, 1 Strength is 18 kg, while 2 is 45 kg.  If we want to show off a more extreme case, 5 Strength is 294, while 10 is 680 kg.

EDIT: Units. Derp.

[Lord Windos]

And now you see why...

a) Attributes cannot be reduced to 0 or less in the base rules
b) Team Rocket stole the Creshire League's Strength HM shortly before disbanding



Ah, look at you, throwing science and statistics at us like it's nothing. Definitely looking forward to seeing what you came up with for Dex.



I would like to point out one potential error in the reasoning, however.  Double Lifting Capacity/Movement speed isn't necessarily equivalent to having Double the Strength/Dex.  For example, 1 Strength is 18 kg, while 2 is 45 kg.  If we want to show off a more extreme case, 5 Strength is 650 kg, while 10 is 1500 kg.

While I don't speak often of it, I AM studying to get my double major in biology and chemistry. Learning Physic and Stastics is all a part of the process, really!

Yeap, that was a problem too, but I thought I alluded to it obviously enough, so whoops on that assumption!

Lightspeed, Captain!

DEX calc process are pretty much the same as STR, only you are working with a small range due to the numbers being smaller, and the Percent Error is twice as high as it was with the STR vs Lift Curve. Its also more simple too, since their is no ability in Pokerole that doubles Land Speed, but their ARE two Moves that do: Quick Attack and Extreme Speed, which double and triple Land Speed respectively. 


The Extreme Scenario for THAT would be a Steadfast Lucario that knows Extreme Speed, Agility, is Flitched (For the + 1 Speed Boost that stacks with Agility), and is used by a character with 6 DEX due to Badges. Without boosts, a Lucario is already moving at a Land Speed of 18 DEX, or ~267 kmph (166 mph), which is already pretty bracing. Factoring in ALL the DEX boost, though, and you get a max Land Speed of 27 DEX, or 413 kmph (256 mph). 


That means that while the jackle is using the move, he's moving at speeds that EXCEED the max speed of the average race car ( ~190-200 mph), which for normal squishies without the proper protections would generate G-Forces that would either cripple or kill them outright. Since Pokémon are made of sterner stuff AND they are a tough Fighting/Steel type to boot, though, its highly probably they can handle such speeds for short bursts just fine! The only other possible regular Pokemon that could outspeed it could be Inflagetah IF Acceleration had the cool gimmick of doubling Land Speed instead or/on top of giving extra damage to priority moves, which would be.....ludicrous speeds at that point. Talk about real speed demons, eh!

[Dragonstrike]

Want to get even crazier?  Throw in the Athletics specialty.  Every point in that gives you another 8 lb/4 kg lift capacity and 1.4 mph/2kmph movement speed.

Pain Penalites and lifting stuff (if you can't potentially lift double the weight of what you're carrying) also slows your movement speed significantly.

[Lord Windos]

Want to get even crazier?  Throw in the Athletics specialty.  Every point in that gives you another 8 lb/4 kg lift capacity and 1.4 mph/2kmph movement speed.

Pain Penalites and lifting stuff (if you can't potentially lift double the weight of what you're carrying) also slows your movement speed significantly.

Yeap, but the gains in investing into Athletics are limited, as 5 Points only allows a max increase of 40 lb/20 Kg and 7.2 mph/ 10 kmph, both of which are drops in the bucket at the high numbers I was talking about. Still, it be another way to make you stronger/faster than possible, and its cheaper than raising DEX too, so its worthwhile to invest in it for RP reason, or if you know your character will be doing a lot of heavy lifting/sprinting.

Ick, that would shackle any would be speed demon, but if they are moving THAT fast before hand they might just end up avoiding damage all by themselves! *Whoosh!*

[Lord Windos]

So.....how does everyone like Terra so far? Thoughts and opinions, mates?

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

So.....how does everyone like Terra so far? Thoughts and opinions, mates?

I like him, to say it blatantly. He feels so....different from Ventus though, I have to get used to that first - but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I enjoy how he looks from your description, as I like it if a man wears long hair and/or ponytails. ^^ Add that to the uncommon height (6,5 feet? Whoahw.) and he'd be definitely someone that'd catch my eye in a crowd and make me go 'Aww, you're cute!'!

Given the interactions done and seen, he seems to be someone who's direct, isn't shy to speak his mind and doesn't enjoy if if things are ignored or swept under the carpet. That's a good and valuable trait, but it also feels like it can lead to problems if he ends up being TOO direct or accidently pushing - Shiva would quickly feel assaulted if that happens, but he seems to know himself that sometimes pacing oneself is a better action. After all, he added the question whether it's okay for her to meet Genie instead of 'simply deciding', which is thankfully noted. While seems to open and, well, direct, I never got the feeling that he meant it ill, and there's something calm and friendly behind this big guy which doesn't make him someone to be afraid of.

From the build and freakin' 5 points in Survival Skill I feel that he's tough tough tough, which is something that gives me mixed feelings, actually. On the pro side, that wonderfully matches how he's supposed to protect the group; on the down side it allured my unconscious worry whether the Game will be balanced so that I'll be able to stand a chance in Boss Battles and further Gym Battles as well. No big deal though, I'll...try to keep watch myself that I won't lagg behind too much.
EDIT: 5 Strength and 5 Votality scares me. o.o

I lol'd when you revealed that 'learning is hard for him', hints to low Insight/maybe Knowledge? He seems to be someone who rather takes direct actions instead of diplomacy, I'm curious to see how he'll give himself when we begin to travel Routes and meet wild Pokemon or important NPCs. The plus side? Shiva upgrades to the empath (in development) of the group.

How he directly had a connection to me via being so sweet towards Cottonee and revealing having a Fairy Princess but not a Fairy Type that he's sure she'd get along well with was quite fun to see, practically the same goes to Nathan and Orthos. Hopefully Terra will be able to accept that Shiva is afraid and avoiding of the dog though and not push her... I just HOPE that'll be not the case.

In short, he's a guy that I have the feeling Shiva will enjoy being around him and seek protection and if things develope into a positive direction, also comfort. Here's hoping for the slow blooming of a friendship - an uncommon friendship, but one nonetheless.