[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

And again, that's kinda something I'd like to address in my campaign in the future if at all possible.  As things stand right now, increasing Dex and/or Vit is possibly the best possible thing you could do to make your character much more able to hold their own in battle.  Arguably, I think fast tanks are quite possibly the worst possible thing you could face in our system (discounting fast, powerful tanks and plot deviced stuff), since they can tank/dodge your hits easily and fire back just as many hard to avoid hits as you can, if not more.  It makes pokemon with extremely high HP like Arbok and Gyarados infinitely scarier since they lose some of their major drawbacks that make them (somewhat) manageable (well, a super well trained one is probably still going to be super duper scary even in the base rules, so the point can be rendered rather moot, I guess...).


That's kinda why I want to try out using all the original accuracy rolls instead of using Dex and Fgt for everything, split the offensive and defensive stats into physical and special again, and try to separate HP from Defense.  Being good at (almost) everything is probably going to be a lot more difficult (definitely will be doable, but will require loooaaads of exp.  Not that generalization in a game like this is a bad thing, per se, but...well, there's certainly a little less individuality in a way).  Gonna have to also probably scale exp earned accordingly since there'll be a bunch of extra things to pour exp into...including other things like Surprises and some stuff I can't talk about yet (and those will cost boatloads of exp by comparison to the basic stuff)



Just that alone is going to make my campaign very different from the current ones, even disregarding my other plans for the setting, basic plot, etc.  I think it could be a nice change of pace, tbh.

Does that all make sense?

Yeap, DEX and VIT are the kingmaker stats, but its not something I'm all that opposed to since it simplifies managing an otherwise much more intricate system for an online game to make things more...well, easy and fun. Fast Tanks are the pits, that we can agree on! As for Mega Bulky Sneks, they're going to be dangerous no matter what, well trained or not, but that's the appeal I find in them imo!

Problem with your plan is that the more complexity you insert into a online game, the more you require players to keep track of, manage, and level up, which is a bit of a bugbear to cope with after our ease of use homebrew Pokerole. Contest and the Traits in particular is something I wouldn't mind seeing never be introduced, as those are a Skill and Mechanic that render some good Moves 'bad' for anyone that doesn't spread themselves thin to invest a point or two in it. You'd also have to increase the amount of free Starting Points a player gets in their Attributes/Skills order to balance out that they have more of them, or consolidate Attributes (Like making Insight the Special Defense AND Attack Stat when you separate Defenses/STR, or keep STR as one singular stat while separating Defenses).

There's also the fact that Players can just resort to maxing out their Skills and Fight/Evasion Specialties first to effectively circumvent the Split/Diversification for the most part, or just continue to mainly investing in DEX, since High Initiative + Accuracy on MOST Moves is still plain good. One solution I'd have to 'fix' the Initiative Problem is to award STR 1/2 Initiative as DEX (Up to 3 for it and 6 for DEX at 5), and give Insight users a bigger Dice to Roll for Ini ( 3 INS gives a player a 2D4 to Roll, and a 1D6 + 1D4 at 5). Doing that means that DEX and Survival no longer totally monopolize Ini, allowing for other Builds to have their own methods of 'keeping up' without having to spread themselves out if they don't want/can't. That means a High STR/Low DEX + Survival can still Move fast, and characters that invest in INS get a higher ceiling for Dice Rolls to get lucky and speed ahead, but High DEX + Survival still remains the most optimized way of gaining Ini. Of course, that would mean a fully DEXed, STRed, AND INSed character with decent Survival will totally blow past everyone Initiative wise, but I'd say if they were shooting to just that instead of increasing their Defenses, HP, and other Skills, its a balanced trade off. On the flipside, investing in Defenses and HP would make a character a veritable Stone Wall to take down, but they'd pay for that buy always being close to dead last, unless they exploit After You in Doubles, or have Pokémon that can learn Priority/Quash.

All of it makes sense, and I'd be interested in testing out your game with a couple of characters I've been thinking. Perhaps later on we could test stuff out in an unrelated One Shot session(s) with predetermined Builds, in order to see how effective splitting/diversifying stuff will actually be? Just another suggestion from me, is all!

[Dragonstrike]

All of it makes sense, and I'd be interested in testing out your game with a couple of characters I've been thinking. Perhaps later on we could test stuff out in an unrelated One Shot session(s) with predetermined Builds, in order to see how effective splitting/diversifying stuff will actually be? Just another suggestion from me, is all!

I've been considering something like that, tbh.  Partially because testing out the system beforehand would be a great thing to do, partially because...well, it could be tied into the main campaign because it wouldn't have to be completely unrelated.  Could serve as a way to establish part of a main character's backstory, as exp earned in the one shot definitely won't be carrying over to the main campaign for...reasons (trust me, it'll make sense when the campaign starts).  Or it could be a way to establish a piece of the world's story using a character initially unrelated to the main cast, alternatively. Or it could just be completely unrelated for simplicity, yeah. That's definitely an option.

I definitely appreciate that willingness to try it out, too. I'll have to think a little on how to go about this...

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

That means Cool/Touch/Cute/Smart etc. will be a thing in your future game, @Dragonstrike? Now that's cool, I'm liking that thought! Though the truth is I'm pretty likely still won't participate as I'm having other plans and projects that I'd like to follow and work on, will simply lack time and stamina to play in another long-shot online campaign. I'm sorry if I'm crushing hopes, but I wish to clear on this... A One Shot Session is something I'd be interested though.

That, and I'd actually enjoy to carry on here in the Skull Ruins a little bit if allowed by Iron as it just became such a neat world to dwell in!~ Or at least see Ventus returning and welcoming him back in Shiva's arms now that I can't have any in-game scenes with him anymore.

Let us not think too far into the future yet though and concentrate on what's occuring at the moment maybe, all that future stuff makes me... I don't know, uncomfortable.


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Of course, with the right kind of Moves and/or clever use of them, even High DEX/VIR builds can be upended, and designing the right team core(s) can overcome or face just about any challenge. Heck, going for an entirely/mostly non-Combat oriented build and just avoiding fighting in general is an swell idea, if you don't mind being left behind when Combat starts up doing your own thing, and picking up the slack elsewhere. Works out great for Phantom, since outside of battles she's mainly into Crafting nice and valuable Items, Tutoring good Moves for the rest of us in exchange for Favors, and is pretty much guaranteed to win over just about anyone/thing that is not adamantly predisposed to dislike her chara.

I feel noticed! \(^^)/☆ A little worry to be left behind when everyonelse is becoming greater and better in Combat is always present in me, but I've been assured that this shouldn't become a problem so I try to not think about that too much. Battlescenes and Fights are fun, but there are simply so much other things and fields to explore that bring me equal if not occassionaly more joy, you already mentioned some. Crafting things is one of them alongside hunting for more loot and having meaningful interactions with Pokemon (own and wild) and other charas. Is one reason why I've sank/am sinking so many XP into Insight and the soft Specialities.

Shiva may not be that decent in battles as the others of the group, but still she's not that bad or in other words better than I thought she'd be by now. Managing to defeat both Dagny and Tanuki on the first try despite I had no big hopes is a fine feedback, and the team she build up provides various tricks and tweeks to bypass low Stats or weaknesses: Flower Gift Ability for example, Vaporeon/Alolan Vulpix/Luxi as suprise Tanks, Delphox/Raphael to deal a good amount of damage to almost everything, or even Prankster-Whimsicott/-Meowstic to mess with speedy foes.

Speaking of Speed, sometimes I'd too wish that having high Dexterity wouldn't rule the the Accuracy Rolls, but I can see why it's reasoned that it does. It's still a bit of a drawback for me that if an Accuracy Roll uses a different Attribute it'll STILL get replaced, like Insight on Draining Kiss, Strength on Uproar and Vitality on Harden - would bring a bit more versality into things if that'd be kept the way it is in my opinion. The Init Order being determined the way it currently is is actually okay to me, no objections or other suggestions.


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Viktor! Time to summon the power from a dark world! Phantom Force against those Duosis! (PhantomUnderYourDesk! I summon you in this moment! Give me some of your Psychic/Fairy power to bless this ghostric move!) 2x! Ambipom! Time to show some stars to those enemies! Use Swift! 4x against them!" Ambipodom hold the choice scarf Heart gave to him, ready show his strengh! "Time to hit the roll!"

I've been summoned, so by the power and grace of a shiny Sylveon I shall grant you blessing and victory against your enemies! (∩` ﾛ ´)⊃── 炎炎炎炎炎

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Speaking of it, I lately remembered something, Iron: You've once allowed me or everyone (I don't know anymore) to replace Contest Skill with Perform Speciality instead of Fight Skill if the Roll doesn't already use Perfom as a Speciality. I'm having a few Rolls where that'd be possible (see below) - so would I actually allowed to do that from now on or would that make things unnecessarily complicated? I'm fine to keep things as they are if you'd prefer that, just want to know for sure please!

Examples where Contest can be safely replaced with Perfom on my Pokemon:
Draining Kiss from Azu and Luvdisk: Original Roll is Insight + Contest + Allure --> Dext + Perform + Allure
Roar from Alolan Vulpix: Original Roll is Tough + Contest + Intimidate --> Dext + Perform + Intimidate
Charm from Chi and Raphael: Original Roll is Dext + Contest + Allure --> Dext + Perform + Allure

[Dragonstrike]

That means Cool/Touch/Cute/Smart etc. will be a thing in your future game, Dragonstrike? Now that's cool, I'm liking that thought! Though the truth is I'm pretty likely still won't participate as I'm having other plans and projects that I'd like to follow and work on, will simply lack time and stamina to play in another long-shot online campaign. I'm sorry if I'm crushing hopes, but I wish to clear on this... A One Shot Session is something I'd be interested though.

That, and I'd actually enjoy to carry on here in the Skull Ruins a little bit if allowed by Iron as it just became such a neat world to dwell in!~ Or at least see Ventus returning and welcoming him back in Shiva's arms now that I can't have any in-game scenes with him anymore.

Let us not think too far into the future yet though and concentrate on what's occuring at the moment maybe, all that future stuff makes me... I don't know, uncomfortable.

Speaking of Speed, sometimes I'd too wish that having high Dexterity wouldn't rule the the Accuracy Rolls, but I can see why it's reasoned that it does. It's still a bit of a drawback for me that if an Accuracy Roll uses a different Attribute it'll STILL get replaced, like Insight on Draining Kiss and Vitality on Harden - would bring a bit more versality into things in my opinion. The Init Order being determined the way it currently is is actually okay to me, no objections or other suggestions.

Yes, that's the plan.  And I'm not super concerned about that mostly because you don't have to spend additional exp on increasing them.  You just get an additional point in a corresponding Contest Skill whenever you increase an Attribute according to the book.  The Contest section in v2.0 of the rulebook will apparently have additional methods for increasing Contest Skills included (partially for Feebas's benefit so it can actually get to 5 points in Beauty without evolving first/homebrew rules), but who knows when the next ruleset is going to be released...they might be waiting until Gen 8 is out for all I know.

Oh?  You'd be interested in participating in a 'one-shot'?  Well, I'll keep that in mind, then.

We're still a long ways from any of this being a thing for sure.  I'm just partially fishing for ideas, lol.

There's definitely stuff I'd like to see post-game as well if things continue as a (mostly?) diceless campaign once the Skull Ruins story is finished.  I have a few ideas for some interesting stuff, some of which don't necessarily involve Nathan. Definitely doesn't need to be expanded upon now, though.

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Appreciate the input, intended or not!

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Somewhat unrelated to the quoted post, but the book does mention that rolls for non-simple Actions involve one Attribute, one Skill, and one Specialty under the Rolling the Dice section.  Something else to keep in mind.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Somewhat unrelated to the quoted post, but the book does mention that rolls for non-simple Actions involve one Attribute, one Skill, and one Specialty under the Rolling the Dice section.  Something else to keep in mind.

Huh, that probably means things will stay as they are concerning Contest and Perfom. Well, that's fine then as said, maybe when I'm getting bored I'll raise Fight Skill but not for a while now. Still would like to hear your thoughts on this, Iron!

You're welcome the input, and thanks for keeping me in mind~

[Iron]

And again, that's kinda something I'd like to address in my campaign in the future if at all possible.  As things stand right now, increasing Dex and/or Vit is possibly the best possible thing you could do to make your character much more able to hold their own in battle.  Arguably, I think fast tanks are quite possibly the worst possible thing you could face in our system (discounting fast, powerful tanks and plot deviced stuff), since they can tank/dodge your hits easily and fire back just as many hard to avoid hits as you can, if not more.  It makes pokemon with extremely high HP like Arbok and Gyarados infinitely scarier since they lose some of their major drawbacks that make them (somewhat) manageable (well, a super well trained one is probably still going to be super duper scary even in the base rules, so the point can be rendered rather moot, I guess...).

That's kinda why I want to try out using all the original accuracy rolls instead of using Dex and Fgt for everything, split the offensive and defensive stats into physical and special again, and try to separate HP from Defense.  Being good at (almost) everything is probably going to be a lot more difficult (definitely will be doable, but will require loooaaads of exp.  Not that generalization in a game like this is a bad thing, per se, but...well, there's certainly a little less individuality in a way).  Gonna have to also probably scale exp earned accordingly since there'll be a bunch of extra things to pour exp into...including other things like Surprises and some stuff I can't talk about yet (and those will cost boatloads of exp by comparison to the basic stuff)

Just that alone is going to make my campaign very different from the current ones, even disregarding my other plans for the setting, basic plot, etc.  I think it could be a nice change of pace, tbh.

Does that all make sense?

I'd be into a crunchier campaign. I do think it will take longer, so maybe the 8 gyms region isn't the way to go, or doublespeed XP so there's no need for grinding, or something to address that length.

And you'll have to invest time into making good character sheets. There are some decent ones on the Pokerole forum but they still need work. 




It's easier for me to just the accuracy rolls simple, Phantom. And I do try to call for 1 Attribute 1 Skill 1 Specialty, which makes sense from a balance perspective of their XP costs.

[Dragonstrike]

I'd be into a crunchier campaign. I do think it will take longer, so maybe the 8 gyms region isn't the way to go, or doublespeed XP so there's no need for grinding, or something to address that length.

And you'll have to invest time into making good character sheets. There are some decent ones on the Pokerole forum but they still need work.

Oh yeah, it's gonna be something a lot different from the usual 8 gym formula of the main series, I can guarantee that.  Want to try something different with my campaign.  Not sure about how long the campaign might take, but I do want there to be plenty of things to potentially do once we start getting into the meat of it.  The exp balancing is going to easily be the trickiest part because things are going to be so different, but I'll try and figure something out.

I really like the character sheet you made, and I think I can definitely make it work for my campaign.  Just needs some adjustments here and there.  Shouldn't need to be anything too much more complex as far as the stat tracking for the player characters goes.  NPCs might be another matter...I think I'll probably have to look into that a little more at some point, as there's going to be plenty of NPC allies (which will usually be GM controlled, so stat tracking for them isn't massively important for the players, but it could be potentially helpful).  I made a few adjustments to the sheet a little while back, but yeah, definitely still need to flesh it out a little more.

[Spiritmon]

I would like also try a one-shot to see how it gonna be @Dragonstrike. I always joins in later campaigns, so join in the "beta" gonna be cool. When the campaign really begins I will to think in next character of mine.

[Dragonstrike]

And that is why Grid is one big, scary spider when facing stuff weak to Bug type moves. Can't get enough of using the big guy