[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[Dragonstrike]

@Spiritmon: as a reminder, Teleport typically can't go through walls.

@Lord Windos: Mind if I share my thoughts on those?

I think leaving the Safari Zone early probably disqualifies you from participating in the Safari Cup.  And taking pokemon out of it without catching them in Safari Balls first might be illegal.  The Safari Zone is an enclosed space, as it always is whenever a region has one.

Curse, Grudge, and Spite would probably work, I think. Might affect what the pokemon thinks of you, though. Ghost isn't a very popular type among Creshirean trainers, either, so these moves aren't seen very commonly (nothing that's necessarily illegal about them in the Safari Zone as far as I can tell, though)

Traps probably aren't gonna earn ya any favors from the pokemon living in the preserve, given it's a rather cruel thing to do.  The Rangers wouldn't be happy with ya either, if I had to guess.

Not sure about situations where a pokemon KOes itself or was found KOed.  I mean, at that point, it's fair game so long as you weren't the direct cause of it, I guess?



Ya know what also definitely works, though?  Status.  Lots and lots of status.

And Juliet is a Status inflicting machine with Confuse Ray, Attract, and Hypnosis (I'm also considering maybe teaching her Will-o-Wisp in the future with a TM from Cress if it's compatible).  Combine that with Paralysis from Grid's T-Wave or Emolga's Nuzzle, and I can inflict a -4 penalty on their Will to resist capture without even harming them directly (assuming they're Male and not immune to any of those statuses).  And if they're Asleep, they can't KO themselves in their Confusion, either, which lowers the amount of risk that status has significantly. And Paralysis can also slow down how quickly they can wake up since lower Dex means fewer actions.

And that's why I'm seriously considering taking Juliet along whenever I want to catch a pokemon.

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

@Spiritmon: as a reminder, Teleport typically can't go through walls.

@Lord Windos: Mind if I share my thoughts on those?

I think leaving the Safari Zone early probably disqualifies you from participating in the Safari Cup.  And taking pokemon out of it without catching them in Safari Balls first might be illegal.  The Safari Zone is an enclosed space, as it always is whenever a region has one.

Curse, Grudge, and Spite would probably work, I think.  Might affect what the pokemon thinks of you, though.  Ghost isn't a very popular type among Creshirean trainers, either, so these moves aren't seen very commonly (nothing that's necessarily illegal about them in the Safari Zone as far as I can tell, though)

Traps probably aren't gonna earn ya any favors from the pokemon living in the preserve, given it's a rather cruel thing to do.  The Rangers wouldn't be happy with ya either, if I had to guess.

Not sure about situations where a pokemon KOes itself or was found KOed.  I mean, at that point, it's fair game so long as you weren't the direct cause of it, I guess?



Ya know what also definitely works, though?  Status.  Lots and lots of status.

And Juliet is a Status inflicting machine with Confuse Ray, Attract, and Hypnosis (I'm also considering maybe teaching her Will-o-Wisp in the future with a TM from Cress if it's compatible).  Combine that with Paralysis from Grid's T-Wave or Emolga's Nuzzle, and I can inflict a -4 penalty on their Will to resist capture without even harming them directly (assuming they're Male and not immune to any of those statuses).  And if they're Asleep, they can't KO themselves in their Confusion, either, which lowers the amount of risk that status has significantly.  And Paralysis can also slow down how quickly they can wake up since lower Dex means fewer actions.

And that's why I'm seriously considering taking Juliet along whenever I want to catch a pokemon.

Nope! Honestly, most of your thought align with mine own when it came to these creative methods to make it easier to catch Pokemon, but I had to be the devil's advocate and ask about them, as if one of you guys/Terra can utilize such things legally, then it makes Capture attempts all the easier and a potential time saver.

Terra can utilize Status pretty well too with his Pokemon, but the ones that can use them are spread across multiple Pokemon, rather than a lot being bunched up on a few. Michael and Duskull are probably the best statusers combo, as between Confuse Ray/Curse/aWil-lo-wisp/Stun Spore/Spore that's - 5 Points to a Will Score, and then Pressure halving effective Will Scores, but the ghoul is likely to revolt if I try to use them, and there are potentially a lot of Grass types that can absorb Spore, so its not reliable. Plus, Burn and Confusion can be Damaging, so that makes their use tricky wicky....

On another note entirely, do you think Nathan would have time tonight for that meeting with Terra? Part of it needs to happen in the Game Thread, but the rest can take place in PMs once that part of the meeting passes.

[Dragonstrike]

Terra can utilize Status pretty well too with his Pokemon, but the ones that can use them are spread across multiple Pokemon, rather than a lot being bunched up on a few. Michael and Duskull are probably the best statusers combo, as between Confuse Ray/Curse/aWil-lo-wisp/Stun Spore/Spore that's - 5 Points to a Will Score, and then Pressure halving effective Will Scores, but the ghoul is likely to revolt if I try to use them, and there are potentially a lot of Grass types that can absorb Spore, so its not reliable. Plus, Burn and Confusion can be Damaging, so that makes their use tricky wicky....

On another note entirely, do you think Nathan would have time tonight for that meeting with Terra? Part of it needs to happen in the Game Thread, but the rest can take place in PMs once that part of the meeting passes.

Except Iron's already ruled that Pressure has no effect on capturing pokemon (which kinda makes some sense I guess since the interior of a pokeball is probably safe from Pressure's sphere of influence).

Honestly, Burn and Poison are always risky when it comes to capturing pokemon, so you have to really be okay with potentially seeming like a jerk to your target by inflicting them with a status that'll definitely kill them eventually if it goes untreated.  Confusion at least isn't a big risk after the target has been KOed or immobilized in some other fashion.

Some alternative status inflicters I have happen to be:
- Shinx: Swagger, chance of paralysis
- Pulse: Confusion, Paralysis, chance of Freeze (however, he's Disobedient atm)
- Swiftfire: Burn (Charmeleon and Orthros could learn Inferno later on, too)
- Starmie: Confusion, can also tutor T-Wave
- Gallade: Sleep, chance of Confusion
- Kumo: Sleep (once she learns Sing)
- Solomon: Sleep, Disable (when he learns it), Confusion (more reliable when he learns Swagger)
- Ditto: Transform shenanigans (which Juliet should also be able to do later)
- Delta Forretress: Paralysis (via Zap Cannon!), Poison (Toxic Spikes).  Disobedient, however.
- Floatzel: chance of Freeze (Ice Fang) Also Disobedient, but not nearly as much as Pulse and D-Forretress (a single trip to Disobedience Camp would cancel it out)
- Porygon-Z: Tri Attack (once it's learned. Need I say more, though?)
- Dratini (when it hatches): Paralysis
- Ray: FLASH (it's not a status, but -3 Accuracy means fewer chances for the opponent to attack and/or hit themselves).  Confusion (once he learns Confuse Ray).  Also gets Reflect and Light Screen through level, and can also learn Grassy Terrain for ?.
- Solosis: Same as Ray, but without Grassy Terrain and FLASH
- Princess (after she evolves): Toxic (eventually) (or alternatively, Poison Sting), Confusion (from Confuse Ray)
- Masq: he can Mimic any of the above as needed

I've got lots of options.  Juliet just happens to be the most condensed/reliable.  And the only Attract user atm.  There's also the various Flinch abusers, but that is a rather unreliable status (moreso than Freeze, even), so it's difficult to actually count it.



I'm down with starting that if you are.  Just start it off with Terra knocking on the door to Nathan's room, I guess.

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

Except Iron's already ruled that Pressure has no effect on capturing pokemon (which kinda makes some sense I guess since the interior of a pokeball is probably safe from Pressure's sphere of influence).

Honestly, Burn and Poison are always risky when it comes to capturing pokemon, so you have to really be okay with potentially seeming like a jerk to your target by inflicting them with a status that'll definitely kill them eventually if it goes untreated.  Confusion at least isn't a big risk after the target has been KOed or immobilized in some other fashion.

Some alternative status inflicters I have happen to be:
- Shinx: Swagger, chance of paralysis
- Pulse: Confusion, Paralysis, chance of Freeze (however, he's Disobedient atm)
- Swiftfire: Burn
- Starmie: Confusion, can also tutor T-Wave
- Gallade: Sleep, chance of Confusion
- Kumo: Sleep (once she learns Sing)
- Solomon: Sleep, Disable (when he learns it)
- Ditto: Transform shenanigans (which Juliet should also be able to do later)
- Delta Forretress: Paralysis (via Zap Cannon!), Poison (Toxic Spikes).  Disobedient, however.
- Floatzel: chance of Freeze (Ice Fang)
- Porygon-Z: Tri Attack (need I say more?)
- Dratini (when it hatches): Paralysis
- Masq: he can Mimic any of the above as needed
- Ray: FLASH (it's not a status, but -3 Accuracy means fewer chances for the opponent to attack and/or hit themselves).  Confusion.  Also gets Reflect and Light Screen through level, and can also learn Grassy Terrain for ?.

I've got lots of options.  Juliet just happens to be the most condensed/reliable.  And the only Attract user atm.  There's also the various Flinch abusers, but that is a rather unreliable status (moreso than Freeze, even), so it's difficult to actually count it.



I'm down with starting that if you are.  Just start it off with Terra knocking on the door to Nathan's room, I guess.

Huh....must of got it mixed up with Curse then. Honestly, I would have preferred if Pressure actually had the effect to halve or at least apply some penalty to Capture Rolls, as otherwise its pretty much an entirely useless Ability in most situations unless Iron's willing to give it more benefits/out of battle applications. Given that my Duskull will loose its useful Levitate for Pressure upon Evolving.....well, I'd like to have at least something making the change more palatable. Not likely to happen, but I can still hope, no matter how futile it is.

I make it a general rule to not use Toxic and Wil-lo-wisp on anything I want to add to my team line up at some point, and use Confusion carefully. If I'm going to sell that Pokemon I capture, then I have no qualms lighting a target aflame, putrifying their blood, and muddying their minds if it means they get into the Pokeball. The 'mon's opinion of you don't matter if they are never going to be with you for long, eh?

*Whistles* You really are taking to heart the motto 'Got to catch'em all!' with Nathan.  Meanwhile, Terra has a small but powerful force, lacking variety and making it up in pure quality. Hopefully, anyway.

Totally am, mate! Post coming soon, mate!

[Dragonstrike]

Huh....must of got it mixed up with Curse then. Honestly, I would have preferred if Pressure actually had the effect to halve or at least apply some penalty to Capture Rolls, as otherwise its pretty much an entirely useless Ability in most situations unless Iron's willing to give it more benefits/out of battle applications. Given that my Duskull will loose its useful Levitate for Pressure upon Evolving.....well, I'd like to have at least something making the change more palatable. Not likely to happen, but I can still hope, no matter how futile it is.

I make it a general rule to not use Toxic and Wil-lo-wisp on anything I want to add to my team line up at some point, and use Confusion carefully. If I'm going to sell that Pokemon I capture, then I have no qualms lighting a target aflame, putrifying their blood, and muddying their minds if it means they get into the Pokeball. The 'mon's opinion of you don't matter if they are never going to be with you for long, eh?

*Whistles* You really are taking to heart the motto 'Got to catch'em all!' with Nathan.  Meanwhile, Terra has a small but powerful force, lacking variety and making it up in pure quality. Hopefully, anyway.

Do note that Disable also counts as a Status in Pokerole.  And NOTHING is immune to Disable without a Plot Device of some kind.  (And Duskull gets it for cheap, too!  For free after evolving, even!)  Same as how nothing with a gender is immune to Attract/Cute Charm from the opposite gender.  Attract's a lot more common than Disable is, though, given the TM's universal nature.  Everything else has a type and/or Ability that's immune to the status somehow, so they have a little more to watch for.

As for Pressure's main uses...well, Iron did state two scenarios where it'd be useful:
- in battles where enemy trainers might actually spend Will.  We're talking Ace Trainers, Gym Leaders, other high ranking League members, battles with other significant characters...if they can only use half the will, they're less likely to use it
- Intimidation attempts.  If your targets have less Will, they're more likely to be scared out of their minds when ya bring down the hammer.  And Pressure users are already pretty dang scary! (usually.  HA Wailmer is a possible exception)



I even made a few edits after I remembered a few other details, lol.  Don't think that variety means I don't have my focuses, though.

Funnily enough, that actually hasn't been the series motto since Gen 2, even though there's now endgame rewards for Dex completion (the Oval and Shiny Charms.  And the free shiny Haxorus in BW2)

[Iron]

Catching a Gyarados in the Safari Zone is harder than you might think. You'd be lucky to get its Will down to 5 in opposition to a 2 Seal Safari Ball.

In the wild of course you can faint it and get it in a couple throws.

Question: Could a Pokemon be Teleported out of the Safari Zone, THEN Fainted/captured legally, since you are no longer in the Zone and are subjected to its rules? Similarly, could a person transport a Pokemon out of the Zone via non-capture methods, then Faint/Capture legally? Nathan has double Teleporters AND a Sleeper in Gallade and his Ditto (If its able to Transform freely, anyway), so he could feasibly pull off the combo if he designates a Teleport destination that is nearby TV.

More questions: Can a Pokemon be Grudged/Spite, then captured, since depleting their Will doesn't 'Faint' them per say, but makes it infinitely easier to catch them? Could somebody weaken a Pokemon, Poison/Burn them, then 'leave the area' (IE: Not be around when the Pokemon Faints) and come back to capture them when they Faint legally? What about setting traps for a Pokemon that can't escape them, and offer to them to either be captured and freed from the trap, or be left in it? Bribing Wild Pokemon to attack/Faint another Pokemon you want, and then capture the Fainted foe? Luring a Pokemon outside the Safari Zone, then Fainting/Capturing them? Getting a Pokemon to KO itself, and then capture them, since you didn't Faint them?

I'm asking these questions to cover all bases, as well as possibly give everyone else more leeway in snagging 'mons from the Safari. All the methods are creative, but hey, if it works and is totally legal.....

You can't remove a wild Pokemon from the Safari Zone except using an approved Safari Ball. The Balls themselves help enforce this rule with geotagging. This includes dragging Pokemon out of there, catching them in cages or bonds, anything like that.

The Safari Zone is enclosed, both by a big ol' mountain to the north, and a palisade with a gate to the south where you enter. There are Rangers posted at the perimeter whenever possible, though there's a lot more ground than there are Rangers.

Curse would work and is legal. Not really a big deal.

Grudge and Spite don't apply to Will rolls for capturing, just like Pressure, but if they make the Pokemon unwilling to battle, that could be to your advantage. Perfectly legal and no one will look down on you for it.
I've kinda nerfed Will and Will-manipulation both in my campaign.
Maybe I should consider Grudge and Spite like a status? The Pokemon is almost paralyzed in some ways.
I told Spira he could use Pressure in any kind of RP situation to great effect. Same applies to your Duskull-Dusknoir

You can't leave the Safari Zone during the Safari Cup, but you can leave an outfitted Safari Adventure whenever you want.

Traps are OK as long as they don't cause any lasting harm to the Pokemon. Lethal damage is basically fainting them if left untreated. If treated, it's fine. Same for Burns/Poison. Do NOT let it get away untreated. Causing Pain penalties is not, that's fine. Or a trap that just immobilizes them is fine, helping you line up Safari Ball tosses without getting attacked in response.

A Disobedient Pokemon is less valuable in trade, but if you spend more balls capturing it than the increase in value, you obviously don't gain much from a monetary point of view. 

That should cover everything!

[Dragonstrike]

You catch an Overgrown Crawdaunt! It looks like it'll probably have 5 Base HP. It's also eating a Staryu! The meal is still alive but on its last legs, quite literally.

That poor Staryu

I mean, if it survives, then it'll probably be fine, but that can't be a comfortable experience for obvious reasons...

[Lord Windos]

You catch an Overgrown Crawdaunt! It looks like it'll probably have 5 Base HP. It's also eating a Staryu! The meal is still alive but on its last legs, quite literally.

That poor Staryu

I mean, if it survives, then it'll probably be fine, but that can't be a comfortable experience for obvious reasons...

Terra and Tommy will be doing everything in their power to ensure it stays alive, and both of them are going to take the fight VERY seriously. Crawdaunts are no joke, at least in my chara's perspective.

[Dragonstrike]

Also, wow, what a coincidence that Terra's dealing with ANOTHER invasive species...

[Lord Windos]

Also, wow, what a coincidence that Terra's dealing with ANOTHER invasive species...

Huh.....you're right about that. Well, that isn't a bad thing, especially since removing the Crawdaunt is helping out both the environ AND the Rangers. Plus, if Pokedex lore from the games line up, getting rid of it from the pond it's in will essentially be opening it up for re population (since the place they live in are mostly desolate due to their presence), so that's great too!