[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

She's not quite sure whether it's more of a good idea or a bad idea to let Angela know that she knows Spira herself. Can't be kept secret forever though, maybe??

Didn't Shiva already say to Angela that she knew Spira when he lost that battle and she texted him, though?

No, not directly and oviously but more through the flower.

[Dragonstrike]

Some more advanced Pokerole battle tips:

5: Don't stretch yourself too thin unnecessarily.  Just because you can do 4 or 5 actions doesn't mean you always should.  More actions means less accuracy dice, and less accuracy dice means a higher chance to miss without even considering any debuffs.  Pain, Paralysis, and Accuracy debuffs can make moves you needed to hit at the end (or even in the middle) of a long string of actions miss instead, which can be potentially disastrous.

6: Make sure you keep attempting to pressure your opponent, and don't give up if you're obviously struggling.  Naturally having more actions than your opponent, more damage output than their bulk can handle, and more bulk than their strength can overcome are all potent factors in determining how effective you are at this to start with.  If you don't have the stats to naturally have those traits, Attribute buffs and debuffs can do a solid job of fixing that.  If your opponent gets an edge on you with any of those methods, you'll almost certainly have to find a way to swing things back in your favor so you can catch up, though.  Pokerole is very punishing if you fall behind, but it's not impossible to make a comeback, either, even without high stats.  Ya just might have to sometimes think a little about how to achieve that.

7: ...but don't spend too much time not attacking, either.  Unless your strategy heavily benefits from setting up multiple buffs and/or crippling the enemy in myriad ways, most characters can easily punish you for not attacking them as much as they're attacking you.  This ties back into keeping up the pressure, but I wanted to make special note of it because it's an easy mistake to make.

8: Evasion isn't for everyone and everything.  To evade moves reliably, you probably want to have at least as many evasion dice as your opponent has accuracy dice.  It's easier with higher Dex, Fight, and Evasion, but reducing your opponent's accuracy pool instead of boosting your own is another way to make Evasion more reliable as well.  Evasion is at its best when avoiding powerful moves with innately lower accuracy.  There's also an alternative way to reduce/avoid damage in the 1.2 rulebook (Clash) for those who aren't super dexterous and evasive, but it's not being used in this campaign.  (I will be using it in mine, however)

9: Check your facts, be prepared for the worst, but don't always expect it.  Unless you're facing really strong trainers, you probably aren't going to see many moves that take a whole ton of experience to learn.  However, some pokemon get access to powerful moves for free (for example, all Rapidash can potentially use Megahorn and Poison Jab, but only more experienced ones are likely to use Fire Blast or Flare Blitz).  Double checking what moves an enemy pokemon can learn in the book is always helpful.  In addition, refreshing yourself on what types pokemon are and aren't weak to is also helpful.

10: Remember that pokemon don't often have access to their entire movepool.  This ties partially into point number 9.  Depending on the GM and the difficulty/type of the encounter, that will determine what kind of moves enemy pokemon will have.  This is especially apparent in the differences between Iron's Skull Ruins campaign and Windos's Celadon City Campaign.  In CC, Windos will create pokemon with access to a large portion of their movepool from Gen 7, including egg and tutor moves not listed in the book, because his campaign is intended to be harder and more powerful feeling.  In SR, however, Iron's movepools are mostly limited to the moves listed in the 1.1 book, disregarding Bulbapedia's listings.  There are a few exceptions at his discretion, but Iron wants to keep the movepools in his game a little simpler.

11: If you're outnumbered, it's often better to attack than try to set up.  This isn't always the case, but reducing the enemy's damage output by rapidly decreasing their numbers is usually a safer thing to attempt to do, particularly if their stats are lower than usual to make up for their large numbers.  Again, this ties back into keeping up the pressure and can be an easy mistake to make.  Even the most solid walls can fall if enough things hit it all at the same time.

12: Watch the battle carefully.  We're human.  We make mistakes.  If the GM forgets to roll something that could work out in someone's favor or forgets a key mechanic, make sure to point it out to them so they can fix it.  A trait that a lot of good GMs have is to treat their players fairly, both in and out of battle.

13: Be aware that some pokemon might have Surprises that make them tougher than expected.  They won't necessarily always be obvious, either.  The most obvious surprises are often HP related, though.  Bigger pokemon generally have more HP (Nathan's overgrown Slowking, Solomon, has a +1 HP surprise, so he's 7 feet tall rather than 6), while smaller pokemon will usually have less (such as that Azurill Spira caught).  An example of a less obvious surprise is Nathan's Swablu, Kumo, can't have her accuracy reduced by Pain.  Her small size is related to the time it'll take to evolve as a drawback of such a rare and potentially expensive Surprise, not how much HP she has.  Non-overgrown pokemon can also still have HP altering surprises, and won't look any bigger or smaller to indicate that.

14: Be aware there's a difference between Vitality and Defense.  This one's more of a mechanical tip than a battle tip, but when looking at surprises and wording of stuff to do with Defense and HP, the meaning of these words needs to be clear.  Defense is determined by Vitality, but increases to Defense do not increase Vitality because Vitality also determines your maximum HP.  Spira's Azurill has -1 HP and +1 Dex, but Nathan's male Combee, Zippy, has -1 Vitality and +1 Dex, which is equivalent to -1 HP, -1 Defense, and +1 Dex.  Azurill would still have damage calculated against it with Spira's full Defense value, but Zippy takes more damage than most other pokemon will because he's incredibly small for a Combee (he's only a single hexagon as opposed to 3).

In addition, no move can increase your Vitality or max HP, but there's plenty of moves and items that can increase your defense.  Some homebrewed items can increase your max HP temporarily, though.

15: Figure out how much Defense your opponent has.  When a battle first starts, Iron doesn't tell you how much max HP and Defense an opponent has until you've damaged them.  Do your move calculations carefully enough, and you can figure out how much Vitality the opponent has if Iron doesn't outright say how much they have after you've landed a damaging hit on them, and your orders in later Rounds can take that into account.  If a pokemon has a Surprise that increases the pokemon's Defense, Iron will also probably tell you that when you've landed an attack against them.

16: Don't forget about the basic maneuvers.  Strike, Knockdown, Evasion, and Grapple all have their uses, and every character can use them by default (even humans).  They aren't particularly strong, but they can be very effective when used at the right times.  Strikes and Knockdowns are typeless damage as well, which can be particularly helpful in some situations, such as when a pokemon with nothing but Normal and Fighting type damaging moves is facing a Ghost type without the effects of Odor Sleuth/Foresight.

17: Successive/Double Action Moves might be best left for the end of a chain of actions.  Despite the accuracy penalties moves like Fury Attack typically have, using them when you don't intend to use any other moves after them might be for the best in this campaign.  If you haven't noticed, using Evasions and successive action moves to skip to using Actions 3 and 4 at the same time as Action 2 in this campaign can be kinda dangerous.  It might be easier to understand if I list an example.

Spoiler

Let's say both I and the opponent declare 4 actions, and we're going first.  The opponent uses a Strike 4 times.  We use Fury Attack 3 times in a row, followed by a Strike.  The Action order would be as follows in this campaign:

- My Fury Attack 1, 2, and 3

- Opponent Strike 1

Normally, this would be where our next action would go, but because of how Iron handles the action orders in this campaign, this happens instead:

- Opponent Strike 2

- Opponent Strike 3

- My Strike 4

- Opponent Strike 4

See how the opponent got in 2 strikes without having to worry about retaliation there?  If the Fury Attack didn't hurt them enough to stop Strikes 1, 2, and 3 (and possibly 4), they got in a bunch of hits for free before I could hit back with my own Strike.

----------------

As stated just before this example, Evades ignore the usual action order as well.  Let's see what happens if the opponent is going first instead and evades two of the three Fury Attacks.  I'll still use Fury Attack 3 times and Strike once, while they'll use two Strikes and evade two of the hits they would have taken.

- Opponent Strike 1

- My Fury Attack 1, 2, and 3 (Opponent Evade 2 and 3 versus 2 of the Fury Attacks)

Now the opponent has used 3 actions out of their 4 for the Round, so the Action order proceeds as normal.  If they weren't confident they could take all 3 hits but thought they could take 1, evading the lower accuracy Fury Attack hits would be a good move to make

- Opponent Strike 4

- My Strike 4

--------------------

However, if I only use Strikes instead of Fury Attack and I'm going first, but they still evade the first two hits they would have taken...

- Opponent Strike 1

- My Strike 1 and Opponent Evade 2

- My Strike 2 and Opponent Evade 3

- My Strike 3

- Opponent Strike 4

- My Strike 4

Notice how the opponent skipped ahead in the action order in that case, then I got a hit in for free before they could retaliate?

If you use successive action moves like Fury Attack at the end of a chain of actions and don't attempt to use any moves after them, you avoid most of that mess entirely.  Conditional Evasions still screw with the action order a little, but generally aren't as punishing as successive action moves if you don't KO the opponent with them.

Tip 17 TLDR; Be careful with how you use Successive Action Moves and Evasions in this campaign.

And I think that's all the more advanced tips I've got off the top of my head at this point in time.  There's a lot there to digest, but I think they're good tips all the same.

[Spiritmon]

Awesome! One down, and a few challenges to go! @Mikaruge108, I will avenge you!

Also @Dragonstrike, if we made to the finals, there is a chance of our chars battle against each other. Not exactly what I imagined for a rematch, but I still not consider a proper rematch (yet). No matter what, lets do our best okay?

Also @Iron, how much XP Heart get for himself?

[Iron]

Awesome! One down, and a few challenges to go! @Mikaruge108, I will avenge you!

Also @Dragonstrike, if we made to the finals, there is a chance of our chars battle against each other. Not exactly what I imagined for a rematch, but I still not consider a proper rematch (yet). No matter what, lets do our best okay?

Also @Iron, how much XP Heart get for himself?

Half.

[Spiritmon]

Awesome! One down, and a few challenges to go! @Mikaruge108, I will avenge you!

Also @Dragonstrike, if we made to the finals, there is a chance of our chars battle against each other. Not exactly what I imagined for a rematch, but I still not consider a proper rematch (yet). No matter what, lets do our best okay?

Also @Iron, how much XP Heart get for himself?

Half.

Thank you! I on fire today to continue! I pratically free for today to play a lot of time.

[Dragonstrike]

@Spiritmon, you don't have to use any potions on Exeggcute because they didn't have 1 HP remaining. Nurse Joy can heal it back to full for free.

Make sure you're also keeping track of Potion effectiveness for the pokemon you do end up using Potions on.

[Spiritmon]

@Spiritmon, you don't have to use any potions on Exeggcute because they didn't have 1 HP remaining.  Nurse Joy can heal it back to full for free.

Make sure you're also keeping track of Potion effectiveness for the pokemon you do end up using Potions on.

Oh if thats the case then changing my post.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Forgive me if I sound mean or similar, but 'Ms Mud Queen' from Spira is very good counterwise.

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

Some more advanced Pokerole battle tips:

5: Don't stretch yourself too thin unnecessarily.  Just because you can do 4 or 5 actions doesn't mean you always should.  More actions means less accuracy dice, and less accuracy dice means a higher chance to miss without even considering any debuffs.  Pain, Paralysis, and Accuracy debuffs can make moves you needed to hit at the end (or even in the middle) of a long string of actions miss instead, which can be potentially disastrous.

6: Make sure you keep attempting to pressure your opponent, and don't give up if you're obviously struggling.  Naturally having more actions than your opponent, more damage output than their bulk can handle, and more bulk than their strength can overcome are all potent factors in determining how effective you are at this to start with.  If you don't have the stats to naturally have those traits, Attribute buffs and debuffs can do a solid job of fixing that.  If your opponent gets an edge on you with any of those methods, you'll almost certainly have to find a way to swing things back in your favor so you can catch up, though.  Pokerole is very punishing if you fall behind, but it's not impossible to make a comeback, either, even without high stats.  Ya just might have to sometimes think a little about how to achieve that.

7: ...but don't spend too much time not attacking, either.  Unless your strategy heavily benefits from setting up multiple buffs and/or crippling the enemy in myriad ways, most characters can easily punish you for not attacking them as much as they're attacking you.  This ties back into keeping up the pressure, but I wanted to make special note of it because it's an easy mistake to make.

8: Evasion isn't for everyone and everything.  To evade moves reliably, you probably want to have at least as many evasion dice as your opponent has accuracy dice.  It's easier with higher Dex, Fight, and Evasion, but reducing your opponent's accuracy pool instead of boosting your own is another way to make Evasion more reliable as well.  Evasion is at its best when avoiding powerful moves with innately lower accuracy.  There's also an alternative way to reduce/avoid damage in the 1.2 rulebook (Clash) for those who aren't super dexterous and evasive, but it's not being used in this campaign.  (I will be using it in mine, however)

9: Check your facts, be prepared for the worst, but don't always expect it.  Unless you're facing really strong trainers, you probably aren't going to see many moves that take a whole ton of experience to learn.  However, some pokemon get access to powerful moves for free (for example, all Rapidash can potentially use Megahorn and Poison Jab, but only more experienced ones are likely to use Fire Blast or Flare Blitz).  Double checking what moves an enemy pokemon can learn in the book is always helpful.  In addition, refreshing yourself on what types pokemon are and aren't weak to is also helpful.

10: Remember that pokemon don't often have access to their entire movepool.  This ties partially into point number 9.  Depending on the GM and the difficulty/type of the encounter, that will determine what kind of moves enemy pokemon will have.  This is especially apparent in the differences between Iron's Skull Ruins campaign and Windos's Celadon City Campaign.  In CC, Windos will create pokemon with access to a large portion of their movepool from Gen 7, including egg and tutor moves not listed in the book, because his campaign is intended to be harder and more powerful feeling.  In SR, however, Iron's movepools are mostly limited to the moves listed in the 1.1 book, disregarding Bulbapedia's listings.  There are a few exceptions at his discretion, but Iron wants to keep the movepools in his game a little simpler.

11: If you're outnumbered, it's often better to attack than try to set up.  This isn't always the case, but reducing the enemy's damage output by rapidly decreasing their numbers is usually a safer thing to attempt to do, particularly if their stats are lower than usual to make up for their large numbers.  Again, this ties back into keeping up the pressure and can be an easy mistake to make.  Even the most solid walls can fall if enough things hit it all at the same time.


12: Watch the battle carefully.  We're human.  We make mistakes.  If the GM forgets to roll something that could work out in someone's favor or forgets a key mechanic, make sure to point it out to them so they can fix it.  A trait that a lot of good GMs have is to treat their players fairly, both in and out of battle.

13: Be aware that some pokemon might have Surprises that make them tougher than expected.  They won't necessarily always be obvious, either.  The most obvious surprises are often HP related, though.  Bigger pokemon generally have more HP (Nathan's overgrown Slowking, Solomon, has a +1 HP surprise, so he's 7 feet tall rather than 6), while smaller pokemon will usually have less (such as that Azurill Spira caught).  An example of a less obvious surprise is Nathan's Swablu, Kumo, can't have her accuracy reduced by Pain.  Her small size is related to the time it'll take to evolve as a drawback of such a rare and potentially expensive Surprise, not how much HP she has.  Non-overgrown pokemon can also still have HP altering surprises, and won't look any bigger or smaller to indicate that.

14: Be aware there's a difference between Vitality and Defense.  This one's more of a mechanical tip than a battle tip, but when looking at surprises and wording of stuff to do with Defense and HP, the meaning of these words needs to be clear.  Defense is determined by Vitality, but increases to Defense do not increase Vitality because Vitality also determines your maximum HP.  Spira's Azurill has -1 HP and +1 Dex, but Nathan's male Combee, Zippy, has -1 Vitality and +1 Dex, which is equivalent to -1 HP, -1 Defense, and +1 Dex.  Azurill would still have damage calculated against it with Spira's full Defense value, but Zippy takes more damage than most other pokemon will because he's incredibly small for a Combee (he's only a single hexagon as opposed to 3).

In addition, no move can increase your Vitality or max HP, but there's plenty of moves and items that can increase your defense.  Some homebrewed items can increase your max HP temporarily, though.

15: Figure out how much Defense your opponent has.  When a battle first starts, Iron doesn't tell you how much max HP and Defense an opponent has until you've damaged them.  Do your move calculations carefully enough, and you can figure out how much Vitality the opponent has if Iron doesn't outright say how much they have after you've landed a damaging hit on them, and your orders in later Rounds can take that into account.  If a pokemon has a Surprise that increases the pokemon's Defense, Iron will also probably tell you that when you've landed an attack against them.

16: Don't forget about the basic maneuvers.  Strike, Knockdown, Evasion, and Grapple all have their uses, and every character can use them by default (even humans).  They aren't particularly strong, but they can be very effective when used at the right times.  Strikes and Knockdowns are typeless damage as well, which can be particularly helpful in some situations, such as when a pokemon with nothing but Normal and Fighting type damaging moves is facing a Ghost type without the effects of Odor Sleuth/Foresight.

17: Successive/Double Action Moves might be best left for the end of a chain of actions.  Despite the accuracy penalties moves like Fury Attack typically have, using them when you don't intend to use any other moves after them might be for the best in this campaign.  If you haven't noticed, using Evasions and successive action moves to skip to using Actions 3 and 4 at the same time as Action 2 in this campaign can be kinda dangerous.  It might be easier to understand if I list an example.

Spoiler

Let's say both I and the opponent declare 4 actions, and we're going first.  The opponent uses a Strike 4 times.  We use Fury Attack 3 times in a row, followed by a Strike.  The Action order would be as follows in this campaign:

- My Fury Attack 1, 2, and 3

- Opponent Strike 1

Normally, this would be where our next action would go, but because of how Iron handles the action orders in this campaign, this happens instead:

- Opponent Strike 2

- Opponent Strike 3

- My Strike 4

- Opponent Strike 4

See how the opponent got in 2 strikes without having to worry about retaliation there?  If the Fury Attack didn't hurt them enough to stop Strikes 1, 2, and 3 (and possibly 4), they got in a bunch of hits for free before I could hit back with my own Strike.

----------------

As stated just before this example, Evades ignore the usual action order as well.  Let's see what happens if the opponent is going first instead and evades two of the three Fury Attacks.  I'll still use Fury Attack 3 times and Strike once, while they'll use two Strikes and evade two of the hits they would have taken.

- Opponent Strike 1

- My Fury Attack 1, 2, and 3 (Opponent Evade 2 and 3 versus 2 of the Fury Attacks)

Now the opponent has used 3 actions out of their 4 for the Round, so the Action order proceeds as normal.  If they weren't confident they could take all 3 hits but thought they could take 1, evading the lower accuracy Fury Attack hits would be a good move to make

- Opponent Strike 4

- My Strike 4

--------------------

However, if I only use Strikes instead of Fury Attack and I'm going first, but they still evade the first two hits they would have taken...

- Opponent Strike 1

- My Strike 1 and Opponent Evade 2

- My Strike 2 and Opponent Evade 3

- My Strike 3

- Opponent Strike 4

- My Strike 4

Notice how the opponent skipped ahead in the action order in that case, then I got a hit in for free before they could retaliate?

If you use successive action moves like Fury Attack at the end of a chain of actions and don't attempt to use any moves after them, you avoid most of that mess entirely.  Conditional Evasions still screw with the action order a little, but generally aren't as punishing as successive action moves if you don't KO the opponent with them.

Tip 17 TLDR; Be careful with how you use Successive Action Moves and Evasions in this campaign.

And I think that's all the more advanced tips I've got off the top of my head at this point in time.  There's a lot there to digest, but I think they're good tips all the same.

Awesome advice, mate! Major kudos for laying it all out like this too! If you would permit me, though, I have some opinions to share on some of points you presented.

5 - Generally speaking, I disagree with the notion of not using as many Actions as you can afford to. In Pokerole, battles are a hard game of out DPSing unless you are monstrously tanky like Terra and his snakes, so not going all out will put you at a severe disadvantage in the short and long term. The exception of this is if you're using Highly Inaccurate Moves or fishing for Crits, in which case you need to reduce the amount of Actions in order to reliably hit with them/procc them. As for the matter of Pain/Accuracy and/or DEX debuffs, account for them in you Accuracy Calcs and still preform as many Actions as possible under the assumption your Pokemon will be burdened with them, either via having as many Actions as possible under all negative modifers, or readying an Items/Action to remove said neg. mods. . Know what an opponent's Pokemon is capable of doing to your Pokemon is also crucial, which usually requires a looky at the Corebook page of a Pokemon.

6 & 7 - To play devil's advocate, if you get too far behind or majorly disadvantaged, then switching out your Pokemon or outright giving up might be for the best, especially in the case of battles that have low entry costs like Gym Battles. If you spend too many resources or are struggling hard to win but not getting anywhere, then just cutting your loses and planning/growing stronger for a re-match would be better in the long run. In the cases where you can't give up, then THAT's the moment you either go ballistic or play every dirty trick in the book to win, or at least ensure that your foes don't have a satisfying/good victory. 'Discretion is the better part of valor' as some say, and Pyrrhic victories are still victories!

Another bit of advice to chew on is this: NEVER get into a fight you are not reasonably certain you can win, or get into Fights that severely restrict what resources/Pokemon you can bring to the table. Otherwise, you'll be in for a world of bitter disappointment if you get pounded in the dirt, and you can't really blame anyone but yourself for putting yourself against unfavorable odds. Its one of the reasons why I didn't want anything to do with either the Safari Cup or Little Cup (As Ventus), as if I can't bring the necessary Loyal and powerful Pokemon I trained to have more than reasonable odds of winning, then I'm not bothering with them.

10 - To elaborate, I also use the Movepools from the games since I don't care for the Corebook being the end all and be all concerning Pokemon, since I find it too stifling and limiting to players, even though it simplifies things them and the GM too. The matter of TMs/Tutor Move being limited also irks me, given its one of the only ways to overcome and compensate for the weaknesses of certain Pokemon, but since its Iron's campaign, I have to abide and be content enough with his rules. Still think it wouldn't be too difficult or bad for more expanded Movelists, but that's just my opinion.

11 - Fighting retreats are also an option if you're up against multiple foes, or going 2v2 (Or More, if you are Insightful Enough to neutralize the risk of Pokemon misinterpreting your orders) to let one Pokemon set up while the other defends them/wears down the mob. If its possible, always try to have a Pokemon with a Spread or AoE Move in your party just for such occasions, so that you can better neutralize such number advantages.

13 - Generally, if your are fighting a Hard or above difficultly Encounter, or a Rare/unusual Pokemon, expect your opponents to have several nasty Surprises or unusual Moves. With that in mind, I'd go into those fights expecting they'll be a ordeal, unless you have enough firepower to overcome them.

15 - On the other hand, just focus on spamming out your strongest Moves/SE Damage if you can afford to, or thoroughly debuff an opponent if can otherwise. An opponent's Defenses isn't something you can do much about unless you have ways to decreases it, increase your STR, or just bypass it entirely, so the only thing you can do about it is keep hitting them until they or your Pokemon falls. If you have said Moves, though, then use them to gain advantage if you can afford too!

16 - Keep in mind that some of the Basic Maneuvers count against the 4 Move Limit in League Battles, so I suggest only using them if you don't really have any better options in dealing with an given opponent. On the other hand, against wild Pokemon/bad guys a character could possible Grapple or Knock them Down for their Pokemon, which is a risky but useful tactic to consider.

[Dragonstrike]

A very, very important note about Grappling to make is this, though: if the target you are trying to Grapple has higher Strength and/or Dexterity than you, they break free automatically, not even needing to roll for it. Don't attempt a Grapple unless you're reasonably certain they have Strength and Dex that are both less than or equal to yours.