[Meta thread] Iron's PokeRole Adventure: The Skull Ruins

[Dragonstrike]

Nathan: I am personally happy to take all of your suggestions as replacements for Anubi, though I'd prefer either the wise king or the mimic, as they more easily fill his niche of being good offense with healing support avaliable. Ditto could actually replace any of Terra's Pokemon but Oinari, as they could just literally become them and any of Terra's others, with the only downside being their low HP and chaotic Transformations getting in the way of their ulti versitility. Personally I think Charizard could stand to be left behind too to make way for Emolga and/or Princess, and that Dedenne should seriously be considered on his team, due to them futzing Electronics/boosting their power (Might be possible for comms to still work with them around, especially if we carry transceivers), but that's besides the point.

There is one other problem with loaning Terra Ditto: Terra's low Insight would limit access to pokemon species that aren't in Ditto's line of sight.  Transformations from memory/into objects are based purely off of an Insight check, so lower Insight means less reliable Transformations in the heat of the moment.  A Ditto working off of Shiva's stats would be as optimal as possible for memory/object based Transformations.  Spira could do it rather well too since he has 5.  Nathan's semi reliable with 4* Insight.  3 is when ya start to gamble slightly, as a single pair of (1) results makes the end result guaranteed to fail without a Lucky Chant.  2 is a straight up 25% chance of failing, and 1 is 50-50 on whether it works at all.  Of course, it's not an issue at all if Ditto is only Transforming into pokemon it can see, but Transforming from memory is powerful in that it can give a potentially wider variety of moves (any that are worth less than or equal to 5*(#of badges) + 15.  6 badges is up to 45 exp, while 5 is up to 40.).  However, Will can also be spent to guarantee the Transformation is successful, so if Ditto absolutely needs to Transform from memory and can't afford to fail, that is an option.

I'm not sure Solosis is going to grow enough to learn stuff like Skill Swap during this trip.  It'd be a pleasant thing to happen for sure, but I'm not going to count on moves that the pokemon doesn't know yet unless they're close to learning them already.  (On that note, Solomon has 19 exp atm, and Heal Pulse costs 58 for him)

Main reasons I'm considering Charizard seriously are a) Charizard were a favorite pokemon of nobility, including Sarimanok himself, so Charizard could potentially be a very strong 'kingly' candidate (the Skull Throne is rumoured to be made of Charizard skulls, too) b) he has lots of strong move choices between Fire STAB, Air Slash, Shadow Claw, Dragon Claw, Dragon Rage, and ROCK SMASH. He's got tons of offensive versatility, and is one of Nathan's stronger pokemon as a result (he could also potentially learn Scary Face for an effect equivalent to Paralysis, albeit more temporary!) c) I'm not particularly worried about Rock types since we have so many pokemon with moves effective against the type (mainly ROCK SMASH due to the ease of access, of course).  Rock isn't exactly a hard type to prepare for dealing with, either.

Also, on the note of Tubareel: I think I am probably going to sell/trade it.  It may be a rare and powerful pokemon that I'd like to keep, but I'm definitely not going to be taking the time to try and tame that unruly, tubby eel shark with no (visible) teeth.  If Terra could help with that trade, that'd be great.

[Dragonstrike]

Question, @Mikaruge108: would you be interested in maybe using a pokemon other than Beedrill for Spira's 6th team member?  Nathan could loan one of his pokemon to Spira for the trip as well if Beedrill (or another pokemon, but I'm guessing Beedrill would be the first pokemon to be swapped out if any of them) can potentially be swapped for something else.

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

There is one other problem with loaning Terra Ditto: Terra's low Insight would limit access to pokemon species that aren't in Ditto's line of sight.  Transformations from memory/into objects are based purely off of an Insight check, so lower Insight means less reliable Transformations in the heat of the moment.  A Ditto working off of Shiva's stats would be as optimal as possible for memory/object based Transformations.  Spira could do it rather well too since he has 5.  Nathan's semi reliable with 4* Insight.  3 is when ya start to gamble slightly, as a single pair of (1) results makes the end result guaranteed to fail without a Lucky Chant.  2 is a straight up 25% chance of failing, and 1 is 50-50 on whether it works at all.  Of course, it's not an issue at all if Ditto is only Transforming into pokemon it can see, but Transforming from memory is powerful in that it can give a potentially wider variety of moves (any that are worth less than or equal to 5*(#of badges) + 15.  6 badges is up to 45 exp, while 5 is up to 40.).  However, Will can also be spent to guarantee the Transformation is successful, so if Ditto absolutely needs to Transform from memory and can't afford to fail, that is an option.

I'm not sure Solosis is going to grow enough to learn stuff like Skill Swap during this trip.  It'd be a pleasant thing to happen for sure, but I'm not going to count on moves that the pokemon doesn't know yet unless they're close to learning them already.  (On that note, Solomon has 19 exp atm, and Heal Pulse costs 58 for him)

Main reasons I'm considering Charizard seriously are a) Charizard were a favorite pokemon of nobility, including Sarimanok himself, so Charizard could potentially be a very strong 'kingly' candidate (the Skull Throne is rumoured to be made of Charizard skulls, too) b) he has lots of strong move choices between Fire STAB, Air Slash, Shadow Claw, Dragon Claw, Dragon Rage, and ROCK SMASH.  He's got tons of offensive versatility, and is one of Nathan's stronger pokemon as a result (he could also potentially learn Scary Face for an effect equivalent to Paralysis, albeit more temporary!) c) I'm not particularly worried about Rock types since we have so many pokemon with moves effective against the type (mainly ROCK SMASH due to the ease of access, of course).  Rock isn't exactly a hard type to prepare for dealing with, either.

Also, on the note of Tubareel: I think I am probably going to sell/trade it.  It may be a rare and powerful pokemon that I'd like to keep, but I'm definitely not going to be taking the time to try and tame that unruly, tubby eel shark with no (visible) teeth.  If Terra could help with that trade, that'd be great.

Oomph. Forgot about that limitation of Transform. Welp, in that case, don't give Ditto to Terra then, if he's not Insightful enough to make it shift into forms reliably. It would defeat the whole point of bringing it along, if their versatility can't be utilized reliably. 

Fair enough point on Solosis. I was just considering it as an nice bonus to aim for later, so if they don't get it during the expedition (If they come along), then it shouldn't be that big of a deal. I'm more concerned with Solomon and/or Anubi getting Heal Pulse ASAP, so I'll have to make sure they hold an Lucky Egg and participate in as much battles as possible to make a quick beeline for it.

Hmm....those are some good reasons to bring Charizard along, but I already understood them. What I was mainly concerned with was stacking multiple Pokemon with quad weakness or the same weakness on a single team (Sans Ghosts, for obvious reasons), or that by bringing them along you are creating 'spacing' issues with the other Pokemon you'd like to bring along. If you are adamant about bringing the fire drake with Nathan, then that's fine by me, but it's going to make including Emolga, Princess, Grid, etc.. along with the other Pokemon you'd like to take all the harder choice (Which is why I want to help you out by taking a Pokemon of your choice [preferably Solomon, if an agreement between him can be made])

Sure! Terra would be happy to arrange that trade! Just mention you caught it when they return the Super Rod to my chara. in the morning, when they meet up in the lobby! Won't be posting until everyone's teams are fully and completely finalized, though, as I can't really do much until that is sorted out since all my Encounters are going to be dedicated to the Ruins. Unless Trading Tubareel takes an Encounter, in which case we can go ahead and do that in the meantime. Iron?

[Dragonstrike]

Spoiler

Oomph. Forgot about that limitation of Transform. Welp, in that case, don't give Ditto to Terra then, if he's not Insightful enough to make it shift into forms reliably. It would defeat the whole point of bringing it along, if their versatility can't be utilized reliably. 

Fair enough point on Solosis. I was just considering it as an nice bonus to aim for later, so if they don't get it during the expedition (If they come along), then it shouldn't be that big of a deal. I'm more concerned with Solomon and/or Anubi getting Heal Pulse ASAP, so I'll have to make sure they hold an Lucky Egg and participate in as much battles as possible to make a quick beeline for it.

Hmm....those are some good reasons to bring Charizard along, but I already understood them. What I was mainly concerned with was stacking multiple Pokemon with quad weakness or the same weakness on a single team (Sans Ghosts, for obvious reasons), or that by bringing them along you are creating 'spacing' issues with the other Pokemon you'd like to bring along. If you are adamant about bringing the fire drake with Nathan, then that's fine by me, but it's going to make including Emolga, Princess, Grid, etc.. along with the other Pokemon you'd like to take all the harder choice (Which is why I want to help you out by taking a Pokemon of your choice [preferably Solomon, if an agreement between him can be made])

Sure! Terra would be happy to arrange that trade! Just mention you caught it when they return the Super Rod to my chara. in the morning, when they meet up in the lobby! Won't be posting until everyone's teams are fully and completely finalized, though, as I can't really do much until that is sorted out since all my Encounters are going to be dedicated to the Ruins. Unless Trading Tubareel takes an Encounter, in which case we can go ahead and do that in the meantime. Iron?

Well, you don't have to be particularly Insightful to use a Ditto, it's just recommended if you're trying to have it Transform from memory or into objects.  Ditto has plenty of other ways it can be diverse just with line of sight transformations into pokemon, after all.  Nathan's Ditto is just particularly...chaotic when it comes to them, in a way.  If Ditto is mainly used for additional Heal Pulses, then no Insight checks are necessary as long as Ditto can see a target that knows Heal Pulse already.  Either way, though, I think Solomon would be a better fit for Terra's team setup.  And if he needs a power buff, either a Hard Stone or Nathan's Mystic Water can both help with that.

I'll definitely bring up Tubareel IC once the teams are determined.

[Lord Windos]

Well, you don't have to be particularly Insightful to use a Ditto, it's just recommended if you're trying to have it Transform from memory or into objects.  Ditto has plenty of other ways it can be diverse just with line of sight transformations into pokemon, after all.  Nathan's Ditto is just particularly...chaotic when it comes to them, in a way.  If Ditto is mainly used for additional Heal Pulses, then no Insight checks are necessary as long as Ditto can see a target that knows Heal Pulse already.  Either way, though, I think Solomon would be a better fit for Terra's team setup.  And if he needs a power buff, either a Hard Stone or Nathan's Mystic Water can both help with that.

I'll definitely bring up Tubareel IC once the teams are determined.

I'm perfectly happy to take Solomon along in linue of Anubi, so consider it a done deal if that's our final decision on the matter! I'll certainly miss out on having the aural jackal going on obscenely challenging mission of a lifetime, but with party space being at a premium and several Pokemon being almost mandatory 'must haves', sacrifices have to be made.

Gotcha!

[Mikaruge108]

Now, what to do with the spare Misdreavus that Spira got from the WT booth. I was thinking of selling it, and speaking of cash flow, Spira buys a Revive and 2 Pokeballs with his current cash.

Question, @Mika: would you be interested in maybe using a pokemon other than Beedrill for Spira's 6th team member?  Nathan could loan one of his pokemon to Spira for the trip as well if Beedrill (or another pokemon, but I'm guessing Beedrill would be the first pokemon to be swapped out if any of them) can potentially be swapped for something else.

Yeah, I'd be up to it, what Pokemon did you have in mind?

[Dragonstrike]

Yeah, I'd be up to it, what Pokemon did you have in mind?

Probably...Ditto!  Spira's high Insight means that Ditto should have no problems with Transforming into pokemon from memory.  And Spira has 5 Gym Badges, so memory based/random transformations will have all moves of the species that cost 40 exp or less. (Line of sight transformations know all moves the target knows instead). Ditto is technically slightly more powerful in Nathan's company since he has 6 badges (and I roughly know which pokemon Ditto can turn into from memory), so there is reason for Nathan to loan a pokemon other than Ditto.

I could also lend most of Nathan's other Obedient pokemon instead.  Grid (Spira has high enough Dex to take good advantage of Electro Ball, and Grid's one of Nathan's strongest mons) and Snivy (bulky and powerful thanks to Coil + Giga Drain + Overgrow. Said he'd help with Ruins related stuff, too) in particular stand out as options.

Any preferences?

[Mikaruge108]

Yeah, I'd be up to it, what Pokemon did you have in mind?

Probably...Ditto!  Spira's high Insight means that Ditto should have no problems with Transforming into pokemon from memory.  And Spira has 5 Gym Badges, so memory based/random transformations will have all moves of the species that cost 40 exp or less. (Line of sight transformations know all moves the target knows instead).

I could also lend most of Nathan's other Obedient pokemon instead.  Grid (Spira has high enough Dex to take good advantage of Electro Ball, and he's one of Nathan's strongest mons) and Snivy (bulky and powerful thanks to Coil + Giga Drain + Overgrow) in particular stand out as options.

Let's go with Ditto, Though Grid would fill the same role as Beedrill (Bug coverage for Dark-type weakness), Ditto would be way more versatile. Gonna RP out the trade or have it happen off-screen?

[Dragonstrike]

Let's go with Ditto, Though Grid would fill the same role as Beedrill (Bug coverage for Dark-type weakness), Ditto would be way more versatile. Gonna RP out the trade or have it happen off-screen?

We'll get to the pokemon loaning IC in a bit.  Since we've done most of the discussing in the meta thread, a good chunk of it will probably be short and sweet.

[Iron]

Spoiler

There is one other problem with loaning Terra Ditto: Terra's low Insight would limit access to pokemon species that aren't in Ditto's line of sight.  Transformations from memory/into objects are based purely off of an Insight check, so lower Insight means less reliable Transformations in the heat of the moment.  A Ditto working off of Shiva's stats would be as optimal as possible for memory/object based Transformations.  Spira could do it rather well too since he has 5.  Nathan's semi reliable with 4* Insight.  3 is when ya start to gamble slightly, as a single pair of (1) results makes the end result guaranteed to fail without a Lucky Chant.  2 is a straight up 25% chance of failing, and 1 is 50-50 on whether it works at all.  Of course, it's not an issue at all if Ditto is only Transforming into pokemon it can see, but Transforming from memory is powerful in that it can give a potentially wider variety of moves (any that are worth less than or equal to 5*(#of badges) + 15.  6 badges is up to 45 exp, while 5 is up to 40.).  However, Will can also be spent to guarantee the Transformation is successful, so if Ditto absolutely needs to Transform from memory and can't afford to fail, that is an option.

I'm not sure Solosis is going to grow enough to learn stuff like Skill Swap during this trip.  It'd be a pleasant thing to happen for sure, but I'm not going to count on moves that the pokemon doesn't know yet unless they're close to learning them already.  (On that note, Solomon has 19 exp atm, and Heal Pulse costs 58 for him)

Main reasons I'm considering Charizard seriously are a) Charizard were a favorite pokemon of nobility, including Sarimanok himself, so Charizard could potentially be a very strong 'kingly' candidate (the Skull Throne is rumoured to be made of Charizard skulls, too) b) he has lots of strong move choices between Fire STAB, Air Slash, Shadow Claw, Dragon Claw, Dragon Rage, and ROCK SMASH.  He's got tons of offensive versatility, and is one of Nathan's stronger pokemon as a result (he could also potentially learn Scary Face for an effect equivalent to Paralysis, albeit more temporary!) c) I'm not particularly worried about Rock types since we have so many pokemon with moves effective against the type (mainly ROCK SMASH due to the ease of access, of course).  Rock isn't exactly a hard type to prepare for dealing with, either.

Also, on the note of Tubareel: I think I am probably going to sell/trade it.  It may be a rare and powerful pokemon that I'd like to keep, but I'm definitely not going to be taking the time to try and tame that unruly, tubby eel shark with no (visible) teeth.  If Terra could help with that trade, that'd be great.

Oomph. Forgot about that limitation of Transform. Welp, in that case, don't give Ditto to Terra then, if he's not Insightful enough to make it shift into forms reliably. It would defeat the whole point of bringing it along, if their versatility can't be utilized reliably. 

Fair enough point on Solosis. I was just considering it as an nice bonus to aim for later, so if they don't get it during the expedition (If they come along), then it shouldn't be that big of a deal. I'm more concerned with Solomon and/or Anubi getting Heal Pulse ASAP, so I'll have to make sure they hold an Lucky Egg and participate in as much battles as possible to make a quick beeline for it.

Hmm....those are some good reasons to bring Charizard along, but I already understood them. What I was mainly concerned with was stacking multiple Pokemon with quad weakness or the same weakness on a single team (Sans Ghosts, for obvious reasons), or that by bringing them along you are creating 'spacing' issues with the other Pokemon you'd like to bring along. If you are adamant about bringing the fire drake with Nathan, then that's fine by me, but it's going to make including Emolga, Princess, Grid, etc.. along with the other Pokemon you'd like to take all the harder choice (Which is why I want to help you out by taking a Pokemon of your choice [preferably Solomon, if an agreement between him can be made])

Sure! Terra would be happy to arrange that trade! Just mention you caught it when they return the Super Rod to my chara. in the morning, when they meet up in the lobby! Won't be posting until everyone's teams are fully and completely finalized, though, as I can't really do much until that is sorted out since all my Encounters are going to be dedicated to the Ruins. Unless Trading Tubareel takes an Encounter, in which case we can go ahead and do that in the meantime. Iron?

Tubareel won't take an Encounter if you sell it to a researcher or similar.