[Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery

[Dragonstrike]

Again, I'll try not to be TOO limiting with Clash, as stated at the start of the Meta Thread.  As an example, if it's an especially large or extra powerful pokemon using Water Gun, they can possibly Clash it with stronger moves like Fire Blast.  Trying to Clash a Hurricane with a Tackle or Scratch or some other weak physical move doesn't really make any sense to me at all, though.  But if you were to use something like, say, Sand Tomb or Air Cutter to Clash with a Hurricane, that'd be totally feasible.

Pokerole is a system that isn't just about battle mechanics.  It's about drama and story.  The writers introduced mechanics similar to how the anime treats battles in order to give them a more realistic touch.  Tabletop RPGs in general also tend to differentiate themselves from videogames by having more realistic mechanics/applications of the stats. Position and scenery are important, offering Cover or other bonuses/disadvantages that the games don't reflect at all. There's a whole host of things that could be listed here.

Because of the exact nature of the story I'm setting up, though, there's going to be both realistic and non-realistic mechanics.  Probably more realistic ones than non-realistic, but there are going to be some weird things happening that shouldn't be in a more realistic setting.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

I play these roleplaying games to escape reality and do things in them I can't IRL, not be sudden hamstrung by it.

Ah... You're actually hinting an important point, as that's true for me as well.

[Dragonstrike]

I play these roleplaying games to escape reality and do things in them I can't IRL, not be sudden hamstrung by it.

Ah... You're actually hinting an important point, as that's true for me as well.

And on that note, I'd like to point out that the Pokerole system does still allow for some pretty absurd, non-realistic things to happen, even within typically more realistic limits.

[Lord Windos]

I hate to be that guy, but its been around day or a little less since Spiritmon has posted in the Game Thread. He's the only one that really hasn't finished or is in the process of finishing their Encounter, and I worry if that will remain the case for several days ahead.

[Dragonstrike]

I hate to be that guy, but its been around day or a little less since Spiritmon has posted in the Game Thread. He's the only one that really hasn't finished or is in the process of finishing their Encounter, and I worry if that will remain the case for several days ahead.

Yeah, I was going to say something today as well.

@Spiritmon, if I don't see orders from you today, I'll have to put Kogeki on autopilot tomorrow to keep the things moving.

I've got the rest of today and most of tomorrow free, so I have lots of time to spend on rolling dice.

[Spiritmon]

Hmmmmm...regarding Evades and Clashes, which way would you guys prefer we use them?

a) Using them takes up your whole Turn, preventing you from taking another action until your next Turn.  Conditional Orders for Evading/Clashing generally only work when you're slower than your opponent in this case, and you have to dedicate a whole Action to Evading/Clashing.  Ironically, this makes it hard for speedy characters to abuse them unless they know they're facing a really slow/weakened opponent and can attempt to dodge everything, then fight back.  This is the method I used during Randolph's battle with Candice and Octavia's Swift.

b) Using them does not take up your whole Turn, but still counts towards your number of Actions for the Round as normal (makes it a little more work for me to keep track of when moves are being fired off if Turns are being used that quickly, but it generally makes them more useful even if you're faster than the opponent).  Initiative doesn't matter in this instance, only that you still have actions remaining in the current Round of combat, but there's little to no reason to dedicate an entire Action to Evading/Clashing in this case.  This is the method I just used for Core's Flamethrower.

At this point in time, I think I'm leaning towards option b), if only to make the two specialties more useful (particularly Evasion, since being too speedy in option a) can be more of a hindrance than a help due to it being harder to utilize that specialty you've invested in).

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And on a related note, what did you guys think of the thing I did with that Flamethrower Clash?  I imagine that if you were to Clash with a physical move, some of the force of the move that impeded the attack would still reach your target.  Different story if you're clashing with things like laser beams and other ranged attacks, though.  Hopefully that make Clash a little bit more appealing in the face of Evasion.

Spoiler

To clarify:

A) If Option A is used, does that mean if an opponent Evades or Clashes with our Pokemon, they can only do those Actions for the rest of the Round? Or does it mean that you can't use Conditional Orders if you choose to Evade/Clash at some point in a character's Action que? Or when an Opponent Evades/Clashes, does their Turn end right there?

B) How do Evasions and Clashes constitute towards the Move and Turn Limit of battles?

Personally, I've already expressed my thoughts on Evasion and how it should be reworked to be more fair/balanced, and as it stand/from what I understand neither of these options really address the issue I have with it. If I had to choose based on what I understand of your options now, I'd choose Option A, as if Evasion is going to be exploitable as it stands/as it was in Candice's Battle with Ran, then I want to be able to exploit it myself too and make it less useful for the very types of charas that could exploit it most effectively. Its how I was able to screw over her Weavile in the first place, so I rather that flaw with Evasion remain. On my end, Beethoven, Stymph, and Zorn could all easily get 3 Evasion Points and just start Evading the Actions of their Opponents, then set up and fight back when it's convenient for them, or just go on the offense straight away if they're faster, so they benefit from Option A regardless. 

The only Pokemon I'd invest in Clash right now would be Diam, Puck, and one of Ran's unrevealed , as they're not geared towards Evasion really. 

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Logically, I find your interp. sound, but mechanically I don't like it. If you Clash, then it shouldn't matter if the Move is Special vs Physical or vice versa. If the defender succeeds in the Clash, then it should always be fully effective in blunting the Damage of ALL Moves involved in the Clash imo. Otherwise, I'd rather take my chances with either Evasion or just tanking the hit and returning back with a non-nerfed Move.

When I say Turn, keep in mind that a Turn is only a small part of the overall Round.  In a), if you have a fast pokemon like Weavile and they attack, they can't Evade until their next Turn comes around because they've already used their Turn to attack.  A fast pokemon can't typically use Conditional Orders to Evade in the case of a) because by the time that Conditional Order would become relevant, they've already used their action for the current Turn of the Round (the obvious exceptions to that being when the opponent uses moves with increased Priority, the opponent does something that puts them higher in the initiative than the Evade user, or when the user is using a move with decreased priority).  You can still take actions other than Evade and Clash during the rest of the Round.

Another consequence of a) is that you can only Evade once per Turn.  Yes, technically, Evading/Clashing would end a character's Turn, as they only get the one Move/maneuver per set of Turns in a Round.

Option b) effectively lets you make multiple Evades per Turn (which is really only relevant when targeted by a move like Fury Swipes or when facing multiple opponents simultaneously)

In both a) and b), Evasions and Clashes still count towards the 5 Action limit per Round.  The main difference between them is mostly how they interact with Conditional Orders.

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Yeah, how Clash works in the book is kinda weird.  There's not much going for it compared to Evasion since it can't fully nullify the damage in the base rules.  To say I've not considered changing the mechanics to make it more like Evasion but for Stronger pokemon as opposed to more Dexterous ones would be inaccurate.  I can kinda understand if they wanted to make it a unique thing that was definitely separate from Evasion, but it does feel like Clashers got a bit of a raw deal.

Even if Clash were to fully nullify all damage from both moves, it doesn't change the fact that Clash still costs you a moveslot and Evasion doesn't just by the virtue of how both work, so I kinda want to give Clashers an incentive to use it.  Though granted, the suggestion I just made doesn't do anything for Clashing with a ranged attack...but for the heck of it, if I were to, say, let all moves used as a Clash do some bonus chip damage instead of losing that move's usage for the rest of the Round, would that possibly make it more appealing for the pokemon that rely on it over Evasion? (even if it's only out of necessity)  Does that make it better than Evasion?  Not necessarily, but I think it would at least make it better than it was before.

I hate to be that guy, but its been around day or a little less since Spiritmon has posted in the Game Thread. He's the only one that really hasn't finished or is in the process of finishing their Encounter, and I worry if that will remain the case for several days ahead.

Well, I been waiting for Dragonstrike to post the iniative of my char. But he was focus in the others chars.

[Spiritmon]

I hate to be that guy, but its been around day or a little less since Spiritmon has posted in the Game Thread. He's the only one that really hasn't finished or is in the process of finishing their Encounter, and I worry if that will remain the case for several days ahead.

Yeah, I was going to say something today as well.

@Spiritmon, if I don't see orders from you today, I'll have to put Kogeki on autopilot tomorrow to keep the things moving.

I've got the rest of today and most of tomorrow free, so I have lots of time to spend on rolling dice.

But I told ya: My Pokemon choice is Daikatuna and Aspido. I told that already 3 times. 3. Times.

[Dragonstrike]

Well, I been waiting for Dragonstrike to post the iniative of my char. But he was focus in the others chars.

It's been over 24 hours since I posted them here.

[Mikaruge108]

I hate to be that guy, but its been around day or a little less since Spiritmon has posted in the Game Thread. He's the only one that really hasn't finished or is in the process of finishing their Encounter, and I worry if that will remain the case for several days ahead.

Yeah, I was going to say something today as well.

@Spiritmon, if I don't see orders from you today, I'll have to put Kogeki on autopilot tomorrow to keep the things moving.

I've got the rest of today and most of tomorrow free, so I have lots of time to spend on rolling dice.

But I told ya: My Pokemon choice is Daikatuna and Aspido. I told that already 3 times. 3. Times.

check the bottom of this post, mate, initiatives are there.
-and Dragon gave the link same time I did just ignore this-

[Spiritmon]

Ah I must be lost thought the pages. It's been long since I get begin with the others and I didn't know it has there.

Orders send  @Dragonstrike