[Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery

[Dragonstrike]

Actually, on second thought, I do have ONE concern about doing things that way, and it's on the metagaming side of things.  Knowing what the opponent's Initiatives are before you select your pokemon is a potential advantage for the Players in this game since every pokemon has their own Initiative rolls.  Makes me a little hesitant to post the Initiatives and edit them later.

[Lord Windos]

Hey Dragonstrike, would you mind if you Roll the Initiatives for everyone as they announce their fighters, but don't start the fight until everyone gives their orders? I ask this because Mika and Phantom would be able to make their Orders once they see the INIs before they leave the forums for the day, which would speed things along since Spiritmon and me occasionally post later than them (And therefore the first Round of the battle can be rolled Today, rather than it being started late tomorrow).

Sounds like a good idea to me, so long as their orders aren't affected by everyone else's Initiatives as well.

Alright, thank you! By the sounds of it, in order for this Quick Initiative to work, players can't give Orders before they see their Initiatives or they don't have Orders in mind that Involves other players/opponents INIs (Like using Tailwind/After You/Quash, certain Conditional Orders, or needing a specific INI sequence of EVERYONE at once before you can plan), which seems like a fair trade off to me if start doing this!

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Ohhh, Alola Sandshrew and -slash. ^o^ Before I make a final decision on who I'll summon against them, I've got a mechanicsl question concerning Clashing: When battling with two Pokemon on your side and Pokemon A uses a move that hits everyone on the battlefield, is Pokemon B able to clash the part that'd target them to minimize the damage they'd that from that move? I actually see no reason why it should not be possible. What about the damage though, since Pokemon A didn't explicitely target Pokemon B but instead everyone on the field, are there any edits concerning the damage received from clashing for both or does it remain like it is under normal conditions?

Yes, so long as the move is Clashable (brainstorm ideas and ask in the meta thread if you aren't certain).  Keep in mind the Clash might damage the user of the original attack as well, though, as that will still behave as normal.  Any targets that don't successfully Clash/Evade will still take the full damage from the attack.  AOE moves also tend to be a little more difficult to Clash than most other ones due to how widespread the attack is.

Yesss, it's working indeed that's perfect! I do have a specific tactical trick in mind concerning that, but yet unsure whether this is the time to try it out or not. When you say 'AOE moves also tend to be a little more difficult to Clash than most other ones', does that mean there's a penalty for atempting? o.o

Will certainly ask if unsure whether a specific Clash works in the first place.



Windos, but I do need a specific Init Order/Sequence more often than not to make what I'm having in mind work, so having the Initiative of the foe but not the one of my Pokemon practically helps me nothing. :C

[Lord Windos]

Actually, on second thought, I do have ONE concern about doing things that way, and it's on the metagaming side of things.  Knowing what the opponent's Initiatives are before you select your pokemon is a potential advantage for the Players in this game since every pokemon has their own Initiative rolls.  Makes me a little hesitant to post the Initiatives and edit them later.

Oh. That is a valid concern....

Well, couldn't you just pre-Roll the Enemies' INIs and keep them hidden, and only reveal them after the first Round of combat starts for Group (Ones that involve more than one Player) Encounters? Players choose their Pokemon and give them Orders right away, and then the Round gets Rolled out when everyone has done so. Then for the next Rounds Orders that involve the INIs can be made, for those that want to plan such strategms.

Sure, this play style sacrifices information for convenience/quicker play, but players can compensate by giving Conditional Orders that modify their Pokemon's Action(s) based on when they go in relation to others, or just make Orders that don't hinge on Initiatives entirely. Plus, it's technically more 'realistic', since you wouldn't know how fast someone is in relation to someone until you see the difference in action. 

Its a different way to play, but not bad. I don't like the long wait involved when it comes to the introduction/start of Group Combat Encounters, and this way of doing them would both eliminate that problem and speed GCEs up considerably. That's just my opinion, though.

[Lord Windos]

Windos, but I do need a specific Init Order/Sequence more often than not to make what I'm having in mind work, so having the Initiative of the foe but not the one of my Pokemon practically helps me nothing. :C

....Dear, you DO understand that the way I propose would have Dragonstrike Roll out the Enemy INIs first, and then when you choose your Pokemon he Rolls them out right away instead of waiting until everyone has selected their Pokemon before Rolling out all combatants INIs at once? You could give your Orders right away after Dragonstrike Rolls out your Pokemon's INIs, as opposed to only when they Roll Out everyone's at once.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Calm down again, and please don't lash out on me like that. Now that you say it like that, yes, that's more understandable as before it felt not quite clear to me. Might be slight sleep deprivation.

[Dragonstrike]

Oh. That is a valid concern....

Well, couldn't you just pre-Roll the Enemies' INIs and keep them hidden, and only reveal them after the first Round of combat starts for Group (Ones that involve more than one Player) Encounters? Players choose their Pokemon and give them Orders right away, and then the Round gets Rolled out when everyone has done so. Then for the next Rounds Orders that involve the INIs can be made, for those that want to plan such strategms.

Sure, this play style sacrifices information for convenience/quicker play, but players can compensate by giving Conditional Orders that modify their Pokemon's Action(s) based on when they go in relation to others, or just make Orders that don't hinge on Initiatives entirely. Plus, it's technically more 'realistic', since you wouldn't know how fast someone is in relation to someone until you see the difference in action. 

Its a different way to play, but not bad. I don't like the long wait involved when it comes to the introduction/start of Group Combat Encounters, and this way of doing them would both eliminate that problem and speed GCEs up considerably. That's just my opinion, though.

That depends on if a player would prefer to give their orders after seeing how their pokemon stack up in the Initiative against the opponents.  Nothing wrong with Conditional Orders to compensate for not knowing, but it is additional work for the players, particularly when a lot of pokemon are involved (I've got 4 groups of enemies in this encounter, so Initiative dependent conditionals could be rather complex).

Such a technique does technically also give the NPCs a slight advantage over you guys since I know what all your Initiatives are, so I'm not sure that'd work super well either since I want to keep things relatively fair.



Orders not dependent on Initiatives/Conditional Orders that change depending on Initiatives positions do help speed things up a lot, however (though it's not much different from how we normally play, aside from hiding enemy Initiatives).

[Lord Windos]

Calm down again, and please don't lash out on me like that. Now that you say it like that, yes, that's more understandable as before it felt not quite clear to me. Might be slight sleep deprivation.

Oh! Sorry!!! Didn't mean for my comment to come across so meanly, dear! Just wanted to clarify things to you in a questioning manner, not browbeat you with the point!

[Lord Windos]

That depends on if a player would prefer to give their orders after seeing how their pokemon stack up in the Initiative against the opponents.  Nothing wrong with Conditional Orders to compensate for not knowing, but it is additional work for the players, particularly when a lot of pokemon are involved (I've got 4 groups of enemies in this encounter, so Initiative dependent conditionals could be rather complex).

Such a technique does technically also give the NPCs a slight advantage over you guys since I know what all your Initiatives are, so I'm not sure that'd work super well either since I want to keep things relatively fair.



Orders not dependent on Initiatives/Conditional Orders that change depending on Initiatives positions do help speed things up a lot, however (though it's not much different from how we normally play, aside from hiding enemy Initiatives).

Fair enough point! So let's ask the everyone what they think about this? @PhantomUnderYourDesk, @Mikaruge108, @Spiritmon , what do you think about Blind Initiatives for the first Round of Group Combat Encounters? The Encounter goes by MUCH quicker in this case for everyone (DM and players alike), but you can't make a truly informed decision about what you want to do in said first Encounter, requiring more planning to work around that or just making Orders that don't depend on INIs. Do you think this is a good idea, or not?

I'm personally fine with things being inherently a little unfair against us in Group Combat Encounters, if it means they get resolved quicker. The fact that an entire group is fighting together is an inherent advantage in of itself, since all they're resources are pooled together into one great big counter assault, as opposed to divided, so I think the disadvantage and advantages would balance each other out.

Another way of doing Group Combat Encounters with Hordes is like what you did at Lake Acuity: Divide players and a portion of the Horde up into their own Battlefields (Or just make portions of the Horde focus on One Trainer), and treat them like individual Encounters/Battles for them. More work that way, and some players may/may not lag behind others, but it means the battles can proceed at their own pace without each of us slowing down each other and it doesn't cause INI problems, so long as a Player doesn't rush over to join another Player's battle (in which case, Re-Roll their INIs and/or have them join one Round after they said they wanted to join them). What about that idea?

[Dragonstrike]

Another way of doing Group Combat Encounters with Hordes is like what you did at Lake Acuity: Divide players and a portion of the Horde up into their own Battlefields (Or just make portions of the Horde focus on One Trainer), and treat them like individual Encounters/Battles for them. More work that way, and some players may/may not lag behind others, but it means the battles can proceed at their own pace without each of us slowing down each other and it doesn't cause INI problems, so long as a Player doesn't rush over to join another Player's battle (in which case, Re-Roll their INIs and/or have them join one Round after they said they wanted to join them). What about that idea?

If I've designed an encounter like that, then yes, I'll be doing it that way.  In this instance, though, you guys are all surrounded in the middle of a large, open room, so it's kinda hard to reasonably justify splitting everything up.