[Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery

[Lord Windos]

I'm done editing my post, so check it out and Roll out when you deem fit, mate!

[Dragonstrike]

Rolling dice now!

[Lord Windos]

Um....not to be nitpicky Dragonstrike, but shouldn't Ursaring have at least 2 Loyalty upon Capture, since it was not hurt at all and therefore suffered no Pain that would decrease its base Happiness and Loyalty? Or is it just so ornery that 1 Loyalty is all Kogeki will be getting out of it right at the get go?

[Dragonstrike]

Um....not to be nitpicky Dragonstrike, but shouldn't Ursaring have at least 2 Loyalty upon Capture, since it was not hurt at all and therefore suffered no Pain that would decrease its base Happiness and Loyalty? Or is it just so ornery that 1 Loyalty is all Kogeki will be getting out of it right at the get go?

The book's definition is if the pokemon is caught against its Will (but not fainted), it will have 1 Loyalty.  I might be loose with it depending on the pokemon (like what Iron did with Ray and Seaking in SR), but in Ursaring's case, it follows that rule.

By the way, I apologize for the misunderstanding on Sucker Punch.  I didn't read the book's version of it carefully enough, which is 100% my bad.  We'll use the 1.2.5 book's condition for Sucker Punch not failing since it's more convenient in this system.  (The system tries to not be prediction heavy, now that I've reanalyzed some aspects of it.  In my defense, though, it was rather late last night, but that's hardly an excuse, so...)  Again, sorry for the trouble.  It is, however, still a +1 Priority move, not +2.  The book's fairly clear on that.

[Lord Windos]

Um....not to be nitpicky Dragonstrike, but shouldn't Ursaring have at least 2 Loyalty upon Capture, since it was not hurt at all and therefore suffered no Pain that would decrease its base Happiness and Loyalty? Or is it just so ornery that 1 Loyalty is all Kogeki will be getting out of it right at the get go?

The book's definition is if the pokemon is caught against its Will (but not fainted), it will have 1 Loyalty.  I might be loose with it depending on the pokemon (like what Iron did with Ray and Seaking in SR), but in Ursaring's case, it follows that rule.

By the way, I apologize for the misunderstanding on Sucker Punch.  I didn't read the book's version of it carefully enough, which is 100% my bad.  We'll use the 1.2.5 book's condition for Sucker Punch not failing since it's more convenient in this system.  (The system tries to not be prediction heavy, now that I've reanalyzed some aspects of it.  In my defense, though, it was rather late last night, but that's hardly an excuse, so...)  Again, sorry for the trouble.  It is, however, still a +1 Priority move, not +2.  The book's fairly clear on that.

Usually in Iron's campaign Loyalty and Happiness upon Capture are directly correlated to how much Pain they suffered prior to being Caught, with no Pain = 2/2 in Loyalty and Happiness. I can probably site several examples of this outside of Diplomancy Captures, but I won't waste either of our time doing that. Only in rare cases does that not pan out, and usually in those circumstances the Pokemon ends up with more Happiness and/or Loyalty, or their's a good in story reasoning for them having less Loyalty/Happiness (Like the Pokemon being especially unruly, or having reasons to distrust/dislike its trainer).

Mate, with all due respect, I believe you following the rules rather strictly in these circumstance instead of pre-established homebrew conventions smacks a wee bit of making things harder than it needs to be to potentially use Ursaring later down the line , rather than making things more fair and balanced using them in practice. If you're worried about Ursaring being abused/too strong of a Pokemon to use at this stage of your test campaign, just raise its Disobedience to 5 and let them have 2 Loyalty, and make it so that it has to go through the same process as  Belladona when it comes to listening to commands (If Spirit manages to make the bear completely Loyal to him somehow during the test campaign). That way using them at all without some heavy persuasion on Kogeki's end will just have them try to make a break for it, and even a successful negotiation will make using them a gamble in battle like Ran using Sekmet is at this point. Later on you could include an event that could lower their Disobedience if Spirit gets into the habit of using and caring for the big bad bear, which would be a nice way to reward putting up with a constant liability and catering to it.

In all honesty, though, I don't find it bad to just give the bear 2 Loyalty without any caveats. 2/4 Loyalty vs. Disobedience is still a risky gamble, and as a savage bear it's liable to maul it's partners and/or humans at that Loyalty Threshold Lethally or laze around the battlefield, instead of being productive or 'kind' in battle in its own ways when it Disobeys. Raising its Loyalty is likely going to be a hassle too, unless feeding it plenty of delicious meals is a factor to quickly making it a more friendly bear (Which Ran can help with - that Crafting Skill ain't just for smithing and handy work!).

Oh, and all's forgiven with the Sucker Punch dealio. Stuff happens, and the outcome ended up making things better for me, so I am not too torn over it anymore.

[Dragonstrike]

Spoiler

Usually in Iron's campaign Loyalty and Happiness upon Capture are directly correlated to how much Pain they suffered prior to being Caught, with no Pain = 2/2 in Loyalty and Happiness. I can probably site several examples of this outside of Diplomancy Captures, but I won't waste either of our time doing that. Only in rare cases does that not pan out, and usually in those circumstances the Pokemon ends up with more Happiness and/or Loyalty, or their's a good in story reasoning for them having less Loyalty/Happiness (Like the Pokemon being especially unruly, or having reasons to distrust/dislike its trainer).

Mate, with all due respect, I believe you following the rules rather strictly in these circumstance instead of pre-established homebrew conventions smacks a wee bit of making things harder than it needs to be to potentially use Ursaring later down the line , rather than making things more fair and balanced using them in practice. If you're worried about Ursaring being abused/too strong of a Pokemon to use at this stage of your test campaign, just raise its Disobedience to 5 and let them have 2 Loyalty, and make it so that it has to go through the same process as  Belladona when it comes to listening to commands (If Spirit manages to make the bear completely Loyal to him somehow during the test campaign). That way using them at all without some heavy persuasion on Kogeki's end will just have them try to make a break for it, and even a successful negotiation will make using them a gamble in battle like Ran using Sekmet is at this point. Later on you could include an event that could lower their Disobedience if Spirit gets into the habit of using and caring for the big bad bear, which would be a nice way to reward putting up with a constant liability and catering to it.

In all honesty, though, I don't find it bad to just give the bear 2 Loyalty without any caveats. 2/4 Loyalty vs. Disobedience is still a risky gamble, and as a savage bear it's liable to maul it's partners and/or humans at that Loyalty Threshold Lethally or laze around the battlefield, instead of being productive or 'kind' in battle in its own ways when it Disobeys. Raising its Loyalty is likely going to be a hassle too, unless feeding it plenty of delicious meals is a factor to quickly making it a more friendly bear (Which Ran can help with - that Crafting Skill ain't just for smithing and handy work!).

I'll stick with the 1 Loyalty for now, as there are still a few things going on behind the scenes.  There's still some GM discretion involved in H/L/D stuff.  Like what just happened with Noctowl, for example.

If effort is put in to befriend it, Ursaring can definitely be a very powerful ally later on, either by lowering its Disobedience or increasing its Loyalty (or both).

[Lord Windos]

I'll stick with the 1 Loyalty for now, as there are still a few things going on behind the scenes.  There's still some GM discretion involved in H/L/D stuff.  Like what just happened with Noctowl, for example.

If effort is put in to befriend it, Ursaring can definitely be a very powerful ally later on, either by lowering its Disobedience or increasing its Loyalty (or both).

*Shrugs* Alrightly then. I believe the case of Noctowl is well justified, since I can see in story/roleplaywise that Spite Captures wouldn't endear a Pokemon to its new trainer, even if mechanically it shouldn't affect Loyalty/Happiness. That's a case where RP can trump mechanics, since it just makes more sense within universe and doesn't overly screw over a player in the process. As a mechanically trade off it works too, as If they want to make a Pokemon practically a free Capture with Spite/Grudge, then the trade off of them not liking them at ALL is more than fair. If you'd just said that 'Yes, Ursaring is THAT unruly or something is making it that way,' instead of just falling back on the rules for justifying its low Loyalty, I'd have a lot less to complain about with your decision since that explanation is fairly reasonable within the context of story and gameplay without it seeming too inhibitory for hardness' shake. Generally mechanics or prior establish conventions should trump RP when it comes to battles/captures, but if the RP reasoning is good or just well thought out enough...

That's just me two shakes on this matter, though. Take it however you may, mate!

[Dragonstrike]

*Shrugs* Alrightly then. I believe the case of Noctowl is well justified, since I can see in story/roleplaywise that Spite Captures wouldn't endear a Pokemon to its new trainer, even if mechanically it shouldn't affect Loyalty/Happiness. That's a case where RP can trump mechanics, since it just makes more sense within universe and doesn't overly screw over a player in the process. As a mechanically trade off it works too, as If they want to make a Pokemon practically a free Capture with Spite/Grudge, then the trade off of them not liking them at ALL is more than fair. If you'd just said that 'Yes, Ursaring is THAT unruly or something is making it that way,' instead of just falling back on the rules for justifying its low Loyalty, I'd have a lot less to complain about with your decision since that explanation is fairly reasonable within the context of story and gameplay without it seeming too inhibitory for hardness' shake. Generally mechanics or prior establish conventions should trump RP when it comes to battles/captures, but if the RP reasoning is good or just well thought out enough...

That's just me two shakes on this matter, though. Take it however you may, mate!

Well, let me make it clear, then: you're exactly right.  There are outside factors at work here.  Hence why it has 4 Disobedience instead of 5 and 2 Happiness despite being a wild bear that doesn't usually live near humans.  Apologies for not stating it earlier, but I was trying to save the bulk of it for a short scene after these encounters are finished.

Almost done with Round 1 of Medicham, by the way!

[Spiritmon]

Wowzer. That battle was even more quick than I expected. That Snore scare me for a second, but gladly to know the plan work out in the end. The Prankster Hypnosis combo is pretty nasty and powerful. In terms of versatility, Nagi is among the most powerful in Kogeki side, since no matter the initiative, his support moves will always go first.

I was planning in sell Ursaring, but sell such strong and powerful Pokemon could be a waste. It have a highly potential to be one of Kogeki strongest Pokemon in terms of sheer strength.

In terms of gender, I think I choose female! A such Ursaring is quite a rare thing, and I kinda have a name on mind.

Also, you forgot the effects of Exp. Share on Pochyena, so Ed get half experience.

[Dragonstrike]

Wowzer. That battle was even more quick than I expected. That Snore scare me for a second, but gladly to know the plan work out in the end. The Prankster Hypnosis combo is pretty nasty and powerful. In terms of versatility, Nagi is among the most powerful in Kogeki side, since no matter the initiative, his support moves will always go first.

Also, you forgot the effects of Exp. Share on Pochyena, so Ed get half experience.

Just so long as I don't start throwing Dark types at you guys.

You're right.  My bad.  That means Ed gets 5, and Nagi and Shenzi get 2 and 3 (you can pick who gets which)