[Meta Thread] Dragonstrike's Pokerole Test Game: Mount Coronet Mystery

[Lord Windos]

When I was browsing through the 1.2.5 rulebook, I actually noticed that they altered how Confusion works slightly compared to the 1.2 rules.  Instead of -2 Accuracy, it adds an effect similar to a Ghost's Curse, adding two (1) results to all its rolls (that could have some interesting implications and effects...).

I won't apply that to any ongoing battles, but I'd like to use that interpretation in future scenes.

Also, regarding Sleep and Freeze, after rereading the effects in 1.2.5, I might have been interpreting some of the text wrong for them.  Waking up doesn't seem to prevent you from taking your intended action (similar to how it works in the games), and Freeze seems to prevent you from doing anything at all to break out until the very end of the Round (which is when it states you can make those Strength and SE move checks to try and break free).

Again, I'd like to use those interpretations in the future, but I won't change them in currently ongoing battles if applicable.

Huh, so Confusion is just a carbon copy of Ghost Pokerole Cure? That's alright by me if we go ahead with using those effects instead, but I feel as if that sorta makes G.Pr.C. wholely inferior to just having a Confuse capable Move as a result, as why have a Ghost sacrifice potentially 1/2 of their HP instead of them using Confuse Ray , or just about any Pokemon using Swagger? Kinda prefer the - 2 Accuracy of 1.2 , if for no other reason than for Curse not to get power crept in the newest version of the corebook....

Figured Sleep should've worked that way from the start (and therefore I'm fine with the newest version of its mechanics), but I prefer if you hold off using the newest version of Freeze's mechanics until at least you start the new campaign, simply because that make the status even more annoying and/or devastating than even Sleep, and the group is currently in a icy enough setting to make the Status all to prevalent . Personally, I find the balance of where Freeze would eat up an SE Action to break free of it as good enough, as it still gives the opponent a free Action while setting the target back, and if you didn't have SE Coverage the target's were completely screwed unless the Trainer had a Ice Heal/Full Heal OR a partner Pokemon breaks them out of the Ice with a SE Move .

[Lord Windos]

Got a few questions for you, Dragonstrike: If I sent out Ditto in place of Paula and had them Transform into Sally/Bastiodon/Turk (Yeah they're mildly Disobedient, but if Ditturk basically has cloned their personality too, they should follow whatever Lucas does and try to be helpful, at least), would that take up their entire Round due to not having any Moves, or can I get the list of Moves of the Transform target and can have them qued up for use after Transform goes off (assuming it does) ? Or do I have to basically have to go 'Okay, Transform, and use whatever you got to hurt Steelix!' or 'Copy the Actions of the Pokemon you're Transformed into!' if I want them to both Transform and Attack within the same Round? Or is it just Transform, and you're done for the Round?

[Dragonstrike]

Got a few questions for you, Dragonstrike: If I sent out Ditto in place of Paula and had them Transform into Sally/Bastiodon/Turk (Yeah they're mildly Disobedient, but if Ditturk basically has cloned their personality too, they should follow whatever Lucas does and try to be helpful, at least), would that take up their entire Round due to not having any Moves, or can I get the list of Moves of the Transform target and can have them qued up for use after Transform goes off (assuming it does) ? Or do I have to basically have to go 'Okay, Transform, and use whatever you got to hurt Steelix!' or 'Copy the Actions of the Pokemon you're Transformed into!' if I want them to both Transform and Attack within the same Round? Or is it just Transform, and you're done  for the Round?

I'll give you a list of a few moves you might want to use and their total accuracies if you want to commit to that route, as Transform will only be the first action of the Round, similar to how you handled it in CCV.  Just be warned that those pokemon know a LOT of moves, and once I give you that list, I'll be expecting you to use that Transform user (since that's information you wouldn't normally have until after the pokemon's Transformed).

If you wanted to keep it simple, giving Ditto an order to copy the original's actions is valid as well.

[Lord Windos]

Just thought of another question: does Diam know Rock Smash? I checked on Serebii, and it says Sableyes can learn the HM Move in Gen 3, so there's that to suggest she could have when Ran and the others started using Lucas' wealth of HMs .

[Lord Windos]

Got a few questions for you, Dragonstrike: If I sent out Ditto in place of Paula and had them Transform into Sally/Bastiodon/Turk (Yeah they're mildly Disobedient, but if Ditturk basically has cloned their personality too, they should follow whatever Lucas does and try to be helpful, at least), would that take up their entire Round due to not having any Moves, or can I get the list of Moves of the Transform target and can have them qued up for use after Transform goes off (assuming it does) ? Or do I have to basically have to go 'Okay, Transform, and use whatever you got to hurt Steelix!' or 'Copy the Actions of the Pokemon you're Transformed into!' if I want them to both Transform and Attack within the same Round? Or is it just Transform, and you're done  for the Round?

I'll give you a list of a few moves you might want to use and their total accuracies if you want to commit to that route, as Transform will only be the first action of the Round, similar to how you handled it in CCV.  Just be warned that those pokemon know a LOT of moves, and once I give you that list, I'll be expecting you to use that Transform user (since that's information you wouldn't normally have until after the pokemon's Transformed).

If you wanted to keep it simple, giving Ditto an order to copy the original's actions is valid as well.

Hmm....I believe I'll take the simple route with Ditto then and essentially let you autopilot it as whatever Pokemon I decide to Transform it into, should I switch them in place of Paula, as that save time and minimizes complications. Whenever I can I try to K.I.S.S. , so the copy option is pretty much a no brainer solution to take.

I do wonder if Transforming into a Pokemon ends up copying their Initiative too, or if that's a separate thing for a Transformed Pokemon like their HP and Held Item....

In any case, I'll need some time to think over my next post, so I guess that does it for me tonight! Been enjoying the whole Encounter GREATLY with its difficultly and thoughtful design, so keep up the momentum mate!

[Dragonstrike]

Huh, so Confusion is just a carbon copy of Ghost Pokerole Cure? That's alright by me if we go ahead with using those effects instead, but I feel as if that sorta makes G.Pr.C. wholely inferior to just having a Confuse capable Move as a result, as why have a Ghost sacrifice potentially 1/2 of their HP instead of them using Confuse Ray , or just about any Pokemon using Swagger? Kinda prefer the - 2 Accuracy of 1.2 , if for no other reason than for Curse not to get power crept in the newest version of the corebook....

Figured Sleep should've worked that way from the start (and therefore I'm fine with the newest version of its mechanics), but I prefer if you hold off using the newest version of Freeze's mechanics until at least you start the new campaign, simply because that make the status even more annoying and/or devastating than even Sleep, and the group is currently in a icy enough setting to make the Status all to prevalent . Personally, I find the balance of where Freeze would eat up an SE Action to break free of it as good enough, as it still gives the opponent a free Action while setting the target back, and if you didn't have SE Coverage the target's were completely screwed unless the Trainer had a Ice Heal/Full Heal OR a partner Pokemon breaks them out of the Ice with a SE Move .

Well, maybe they'd use it anyways because it stacks with Curse due to technically being a different effect?  I could see some Ghosts gladly exploiting that in the future.   

Yeah, slight spoilers, but unless you guys manage to land a Freeze, I don't expect that change to come up until my main game anyways, as I don't have any major foes coming up with Freeze inflicting moves after the Diamond Steelix.  *shrug*

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Also, regarding Cover, once we hit my main game, I think I might have to change that slightly.  The book lists it alongside the other basic maneuvers (Strike, Grapple, Knockdown, Ambush, Stabilize), which all take an action to perform (with the exception of Ambush in some cases), so Cover probably needs to get similar treatment. 

This is mostly with regards to intentionally covering an ally from an incoming attack mid-battle, as that's a rather deliberate thing to focus on doing.  It's easy enough to intentionally hide behind a stationary object as long as you're using ranged attacks, but hiding behind a living creature that's moving around the battlefield would almost certainly require at least one of the characters to dedicate an action to doing so.

As such, I'd kinda like to split the Cover an Ally action into a second action as well: Take Cover.  Mechanically identical, but it changes the dynamic of the characters involved slightly.  Cover an Ally is a character intentionally taking the brunt of a ranged attack for someone else, while Take Cover is hiding behind someone else (provided they're willing) in the hopes that the damage you take will be minimized.  Whichever one's used determines which of the two can continue to attack with ranged moves while the Cover initially takes effect.

Larger pokemon can also possibly provide cover for an extended period of time compared to smaller pokemon since they don't have to move as much to cover stuff hiding behind them.

Again, I don't plan on applying this until my main game starts.

[Dragonstrike]

Just thought of another question: does Diam know Rock Smash? I checked on Serebii, and it says Sableyes can learn the HM Move in Gen 3, so there's that to suggest she could have when Ran and the others started using Lucas' wealth of HMs .

Yeah, she can have it.

I do wonder if Transforming into a Pokemon ends up copying their Initiative too, or if that's a separate thing for a Transformed Pokemon like their HP and Held Item....

Their Initiative bonus changes when they Transform since all the involved stats change, so they'll get whatever their new initiative bonus is with whatever Initiative Roll they got when sent in.

Ex: Ditto rolls a (2) for Initiative and Transforms into a pokemon with an Initiative bonus of 5. Their new Initiative after Transforming would be 7.

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

Well, maybe they'd use it anyways because it stacks with Curse due to technically being a different effect?  I could see some Ghosts gladly exploiting that in the future.   

Yeah, slight spoilers, but unless you guys manage to land a Freeze, I don't expect that change to come up until my main game anyways, as I don't have any major foes coming up with Freeze inflicting moves after the Diamond Steelix.  *shrug*

---------------------------------------------

Also, regarding Cover, once we hit my main game, I think I might have to change that slightly.  The book lists it alongside the other basic maneuvers (Strike, Grapple, Knockdown, Ambush, Stabilize), which all take an action to perform (with the exception of Ambush in some cases), so Cover probably needs to get similar treatment. 

This is mostly with regards to intentionally covering an ally from an incoming attack mid-battle, as that's a rather deliberate thing to focus on doing.  It's easy enough to intentionally hide behind a stationary object as long as you're using ranged attacks, but hiding behind a living creature that's moving around the battlefield would almost certainly require at least one of the characters to dedicate an action to doing so.

As such, I'd kinda like to split the Cover an Ally action into a second action as well: Take Cover.  Mechanically identical, but it changes the dynamic of the characters involved slightly.  Cover an Ally is a character intentionally taking the brunt of a ranged attack for someone else, while Take Cover is hiding behind someone else (provided they're willing) in the hopes that the damage you take will be minimized.  Whichever one's used determines which of the two can continue to attack with ranged moves while the Cover initially takes effect.

Larger pokemon can also possibly provide cover for an extended period of time compared to smaller pokemon since they don't have to move as much to cover stuff hiding behind them.

Again, I don't plan on applying this until my main game starts.

In that case, I'd be perfectly happy with Confusion have Curse-like effects! Diam don't have Curse, but she DOES have Confuse Ray, and can certainly learn Curse it later if I wish!

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....Well, I'm not too bothered with the Cover mechanic being made more complex and costly to use on the basis of making it a skill test of sorts and the logic you presented, but if you go ahead with it I'll personally likely never ever use either mechanic in the main game BECAUSE it has an Action cost, it cleanly locks out most Contact Moves in the corebook, and the way you're wording the new version your presenting implies that the Cover only lasts for 1 Action. I much rather have my Pokemon just attack in a mass party attack scenario on Pokemon or take my chances with Evasion (Or Clash, if that's the better option) instead of spending a valuable Action on one or two of my Pokemon using each other for cover OR provide cover for other players/NPCs Pokemon for 1 Action unless whatever my chara. or they plan on doing in Cover can almost guarantee a win in 1 - 3 Actions. And If the 'No Move Spam' and/or the newest Action Cost system is carried over to your main game, there even less reason to use Cover when it takes up the valuable Action space and drives up the 'cost' of later Actions .

The only way I see myself engaging in the revised Cover mechanics is if being/taking Cover is persistent upon Action use (IE: Costs an Action, but the user then Covers / is Covered for the rest of the Round) or it doesn't drive up the cost of the Coverer / Covered next Action BUT does count towards the total Action limit per Round. Either that, or just make Cover /Taking Cover cost 1 Will for a Pokemon to hide / hide behind another Pokemon instead of revising the mechanic for your main game entirely, if you want it to be a skill / resource test for us players and avoid rampant use of the mechanic unless we want to go without healing (if you carry Will Cost Healing into the main game) and increased consistency on our Moves/Actions.

These are my two cents on the matter. Let me restate that I have no obejction if you go ahead with implementing the revisions, but as it stands I can't find myself too interested in utilizing Cover going forward into the main game.

[Spiritmon]

Well, I okay with the changes. The Sleep kinda get nerfed, but I can understand the changes in the book. I have a little question Dragonstrike. Shouldn't Snatch steal all buffs from Steelix, with the buff of Dex and Defense or Snatch only steal one Buff per use?

[Dragonstrike]

Well, I okay with the changes. The Sleep kinda get nerfed, but I can understand the changes in the book. I have a little question Dragonstrike. Shouldn't Snatch steal all buffs from Steelix, with the buff of Dex and Defense or Snatch only steal one Buff per use?

It should have been all buffs, yes, both positive and negative.  That's my bad for forgetting since it's been awhile since we've used that move.

I won't go back and alter that this time.  Changes too much.

EDIT: I'm reanalyzing how I want to balance Snatch, and whether it should steal debuffs as well to counter the lack of prediction it normally requires in the games (my original idea), or if it should only steal buffs so there's greater accuracy to how it functions in the games and the book.