So Much Luck IM SO HAPPY!

[Lord Windos]

There are several Pokémon that still do not have their HA's released, so this bug could have been expanded into an actual method to get these.

Er, no, the bug would make the Pokeradar a one time use since everyone would just catch one HA poke and be done with it if chain-breeding HAs was a thing. And no, giving it being doable for some species only would make it both unfair and unwise since why do some species get the special treatment and some don't?

I would like it if the Devs would just make the rest of the the HA's available to the public, as there is no other way to get them without cheating. Which, as manner people would attest, is unacceptable.

First of, they WILL, eventually, in their own time, that was clear from the beginning. Second, since the HA is currently locked for those species, you can't even cheat to get the HA. There's literally no way to get HA on those species, with or without cheating. And, even if by some miracle, you cheat and get the HA, the Pokemon won't pass the anti-hack system anyway and thus, what's the point?

Considering that I got a HA Luxi awhile back, without cheating...

I actually would not mind HA hunting being a one off thing to do, since it takes outs the bothersome task of trying to hunt for a HA female. And the radar would still get some use for those that are looking to chain a shiny 'mon of their choose. I get your points, though. As to the point, some people just want to have access to that Pokémon for their own playthrough/experimentation, but that is weak justification for cheating in of itself...


I am just plain confused as to why they left out some HA Pokémon from the big initial release. Was it time concerns, or some other nebulous reason I am unaware of?

[MonkeyLord83]

I actually would not mind HA hunting being a one off thing to do, since it takes outs the bothersome task of trying to hunt for a HA female. And the radar would still get some use for those that are looking to chain a shiny 'mon of their choose. I get your points, though. As to the point, some people just want to have access to that Pokémon for their own playthrough/experimentation, but that is weak justification for cheating in of itself...


I am just plain confused as to why they left out some HA Pokémon from the big initial release. Was it time concerns, or some other nebulous reason I am unaware of?

A bug is a bug no matter how you look at it. And using that bug to one's advantage is exploitation no matter how much you try to justify it. Chain breeding HA was NEVER intended. It's not how it works in the canon games, and it wasn't supposed to be a thing in Uranium. That much was clear, and both the old and new devs agreed upon that. So, naturally, being the lawfully evil dev that he claimed himself to be, @Androziel was simply doing his job when removing all possible ways to exploit the "chain-breeding HA" bug. The only reason those species are HA-locked is because they are "gifts"/one-time-only Pokemon that you cannot catch in the wild and therefore, their HA should be something special as well, and will be released into the game in ways worthy of them. At least, that's how he saw it back when I talked to him when the bug was first found. How much of that still applies today and how exactly will they be implemented is depending on our devs...

[Lord Windos]

Considering that the HA of the starter Pokémon are just the typical abilities of starters, I don't really believe they are important enough to warrant a special release, but that is my opinion. As for special events, we already had a couple of them, but instead of electing to release some of those Special HA Pokémon, they released versions of other Pokémon. These versions had special abilities/designs, sure, but I still feel that they miss and opportunity to check some boxes off, if you get were I am going with this.

While I don't find exploitation of bugs in the game coding bad, per say, I can understand why the devs feel obliged to fix them. I just figured it be easier on them to just leave the good bugs alone for the individual user, instead of summarily fixing them all.

[MonkeyLord83]

"good bug" is the problem with your argument here... How do one define them? One could argue that all bug are good as they all offer exploitation and give sorta a Headstart, making it easier. Where then, would one draw the line? Exploitation and cheating/hacking aren't too far apart from one another, either, so what's to stop one from going too far and into cheating/hacking zone? You can't just ask for bug fix and hope the good bug will stay, it's like calling the exterminator and then ask them to not do their job because there are some good bugs in your house in addition to the bad ones...

[Lord Windos]

"good bug" is the problem with your argument here... How do one define them? One could argue that all bug are good as they all offer exploitation and give sorta a Headstart, making it easier. Where then, would one draw the line? Exploitation and cheating/hacking aren't too far apart from one another, either, so what's to stop one from going too far and into cheating/hacking zone? You can't just ask for bug fix and hope the good bug will stay, it's like calling the exterminator and then ask them to not do their job because there are some good bugs in your house in addition to the bad ones...

I consider exploits thing that you can do to make the game easier/less challenge that hinge on bugs or using items/abilities in unintended ways. Cheating is when you use methods outside of the game proper to achieve the same effect. Of the two, I consider exploitation the less egregious crime, as you are still winning within the bounds of the game, and that exploits can be learned and master by just about anyone.
 
While you can argue that its better to fix all bugs, because its easier/more fair for both the devs and people playing the game, you could equally state that a bug can enhance the game, if it does not outright crash it. Dark Souls, for instance, had several duplication glitches that allowed people to quickly reach the set meta level, allowing faster access to new builds for PVP. While they did patch it eventually, the bug did little harm to the overall game, and might have actually enhanced the multiplayer aspect.

Good bugs can be like a couch having fluffier cushions on one side than the other. You can fix it, or you can enjoy the benefits of the defect.

[MonkeyLord83]

"good bug" is the problem with your argument here... How do one define them? One could argue that all bug are good as they all offer exploitation and give sorta a Headstart, making it easier. Where then, would one draw the line? Exploitation and cheating/hacking aren't too far apart from one another, either, so what's to stop one from going too far and into cheating/hacking zone? You can't just ask for bug fix and hope the good bug will stay, it's like calling the exterminator and then ask them to not do their job because there are some good bugs in your house in addition to the bad ones...

I consider exploits thing that you can do to make the game easier/less challenge that hinge on bugs or using items/abilities in unintended ways. Cheating is when you use methods outside of the game proper to achieve the same effect. Of the two, I consider exploitation the less egregious crime, as you are still winning within the bounds of the game, and that exploits can be learned and master by just about anyone.
 
While you can argue that its better to fix all bugs, because its easier/more fair for both the devs and people playing the game, you could equally state that a bug can enhance the game, if it does not outright crash it. Dark Souls, for instance, had several duplication glitches that allowed people to quickly reach the set meta level, allowing faster access to new builds for PVP. While they did patch it eventually, the bug did little harm to the overall game, and might have actually enhanced the multiplayer aspect.

Good bugs can be like a couch having fluffier cushions on one side than the other. You can fix it, or you can enjoy the benefits of the defect.

By your definition, duping Pokemon and items via GTS is technically just an exploitation. Yet we all agree it's not to be done. What then, is the separating factor? If you think about it, you're saying it's okay to exploit as long as it's beneficial and doesn't crash/ruin your save, but duping is beneficial and it doesn't cause any problem if done right, YET it's still wrong to do. The exact same thing can be said for cloning saves to get multiple event Pokemons without having to start a new save. All of these are just exploitation of various degree.

Fairness doesn't come without any price, if you find one exploit okay and the other not, you have to know that there will be someone else out there finding the opposite. And the only way to make it fair for everyone, is to remove all exploits, because otherwise, you're not asking for fairness, you're asking for convenience.

Point is, if something is an exploitation, it's always at risk of being removed, and you can't really blame anyone but yourself for having enjoy it. To argue that some bugs/exploitation are good and some other are bad is just trying to justify your wrong doings and to some extend being a hypocrite. If you're to exploit, own up to it, really. I don't have a completely clean slate myself, tbh. I do exploit a bug or two every now and then, every here and there, on different games. But at the end of the day, if the bug/exploit is removed, I'd be fine with it, it was fun while it lasted, but the devs would have been right to remove it. And I'd own up to it, maybe I'll do it proudly, maybe I won't, but I'll own up to it, I won't even attempt to justify my actions. Bugs/exploits are wrong, maybe not as bad as downright cheating/hacking (though in some scenario, they are just as bad), and wrong is still wrong no matter how much one try to justify it.

[babz16]

"good bug" is the problem with your argument here... How do one define them? One could argue that all bug are good as they all offer exploitation and give sorta a Headstart, making it easier. Where then, would one draw the line? Exploitation and cheating/hacking aren't too far apart from one another, either, so what's to stop one from going too far and into cheating/hacking zone? You can't just ask for bug fix and hope the good bug will stay, it's like calling the exterminator and then ask them to not do their job because there are some good bugs in your house in addition to the bad ones...

I consider exploits thing that you can do to make the game easier/less challenge that hinge on bugs or using items/abilities in unintended ways. Cheating is when you use methods outside of the game proper to achieve the same effect. Of the two, I consider exploitation the less egregious crime, as you are still winning within the bounds of the game, and that exploits can be learned and master by just about anyone.
 
While you can argue that its better to fix all bugs, because its easier/more fair for both the devs and people playing the game, you could equally state that a bug can enhance the game, if it does not outright crash it. Dark Souls, for instance, had several duplication glitches that allowed people to quickly reach the set meta level, allowing faster access to new builds for PVP. While they did patch it eventually, the bug did little harm to the overall game, and might have actually enhanced the multiplayer aspect.

Good bugs can be like a couch having fluffier cushions on one side than the other. You can fix it, or you can enjoy the benefits of the defect.

"good bug" is the problem with your argument here... How do one define them? One could argue that all bug are good as they all offer exploitation and give sorta a Headstart, making it easier. Where then, would one draw the line? Exploitation and cheating/hacking aren't too far apart from one another, either, so what's to stop one from going too far and into cheating/hacking zone? You can't just ask for bug fix and hope the good bug will stay, it's like calling the exterminator and then ask them to not do their job because there are some good bugs in your house in addition to the bad ones...

I consider exploits thing that you can do to make the game easier/less challenge that hinge on bugs or using items/abilities in unintended ways. Cheating is when you use methods outside of the game proper to achieve the same effect. Of the two, I consider exploitation the less egregious crime, as you are still winning within the bounds of the game, and that exploits can be learned and master by just about anyone.
 
While you can argue that its better to fix all bugs, because its easier/more fair for both the devs and people playing the game, you could equally state that a bug can enhance the game, if it does not outright crash it. Dark Souls, for instance, had several duplication glitches that allowed people to quickly reach the set meta level, allowing faster access to new builds for PVP. While they did patch it eventually, the bug did little harm to the overall game, and might have actually enhanced the multiplayer aspect.

Good bugs can be like a couch having fluffier cushions on one side than the other. You can fix it, or you can enjoy the benefits of the defect.

By your definition, duping Pokemon and items via GTS is technically just an exploitation. Yet we all agree it's not to be done. What then, is the separating factor? If you think about it, you're saying it's okay to exploit as long as it's beneficial and doesn't crash/ruin your save, but duping is beneficial and it doesn't cause any problem if done right, YET it's still wrong to do. The exact same thing can be said for cloning saves to get multiple event Pokemons without having to start a new save. All of these are just exploitation of various degree.

Fairness doesn't come without any price, if you find one exploit okay and the other not, you have to know that there will be someone else out there finding the opposite. And the only way to make it fair for everyone, is to remove all exploits, because otherwise, you're not asking for fairness, you're asking for convenience.

Point is, if something is an exploitation, it's always at risk of being removed, and you can't really blame anyone but yourself for having enjoy it. To argue that some bugs/exploitation are good and some other are bad is just trying to justify your wrong doings and to some extend being a hypocrite. If you're to exploit, own up to it, really. I don't have a completely clean slate myself, tbh. I do exploit a bug or two every now and then, every here and there, on different games. But at the end of the day, if the bug/exploit is removed, I'd be fine with it, it was fun while it lasted, but the devs would have been right to remove it. And I'd own up to it, maybe I'll do it proudly, maybe I won't, but I'll own up to it, I won't even attempt to justify my actions. Bugs/exploits are wrong, maybe not as bad as downright cheating/hacking (though in some scenario, they are just as bad), and wrong is still wrong no matter how much one try to justify it.

Monkey there is one pokemon that is not special that you can't their HA. Corsola

[MonkeyLord83]

Monkey there is one pokemon that is not special that you can't their HA. Corsola

Er, @babz16, I bred HA Corsola and released like a box of them into WT2... And I still have some HA Corsola left so I can breed them again if I choose, so your information is incorrect...

[Lord Windos]

"good bug" is the problem with your argument here... How do one define them? One could argue that all bug are good as they all offer exploitation and give sorta a Headstart, making it easier. Where then, would one draw the line? Exploitation and cheating/hacking aren't too far apart from one another, either, so what's to stop one from going too far and into cheating/hacking zone? You can't just ask for bug fix and hope the good bug will stay, it's like calling the exterminator and then ask them to not do their job because there are some good bugs in your house in addition to the bad ones...

I consider exploits thing that you can do to make the game easier/less challenge that hinge on bugs or using items/abilities in unintended ways. Cheating is when you use methods outside of the game proper to achieve the same effect. Of the two, I consider exploitation the less egregious crime, as you are still winning within the bounds of the game, and that exploits can be learned and master by just about anyone.
 
While you can argue that its better to fix all bugs, because its easier/more fair for both the devs and people playing the game, you could equally state that a bug can enhance the game, if it does not outright crash it. Dark Souls, for instance, had several duplication glitches that allowed people to quickly reach the set meta level, allowing faster access to new builds for PVP. While they did patch it eventually, the bug did little harm to the overall game, and might have actually enhanced the multiplayer aspect.

Good bugs can be like a couch having fluffier cushions on one side than the other. You can fix it, or you can enjoy the benefits of the defect.

By your definition, duping Pokemon and items via GTS is technically just an exploitation. Yet we all agree it's not to be done. What then, is the separating factor? If you think about it, you're saying it's okay to exploit as long as it's beneficial and doesn't crash/ruin your save, but duping is beneficial and it doesn't cause any problem if done right, YET it's still wrong to do. The exact same thing can be said for cloning saves to get multiple event Pokemons without having to start a new save. All of these are just exploitation of various degree.

Fairness doesn't come without any price, if you find one exploit okay and the other not, you have to know that there will be someone else out there finding the opposite. And the only way to make it fair for everyone, is to remove all exploits, because otherwise, you're not asking for fairness, you're asking for convenience.

Point is, if something is an exploitation, it's always at risk of being removed, and you can't really blame anyone but yourself for having enjoy it. To argue that some bugs/exploitation are good and some other are bad is just trying to justify your wrong doings and to some extend being a hypocrite. If you're to exploit, own up to it, really. I don't have a completely clean slate myself, tbh. I do exploit a bug or two every now and then, every here and there, on different games. But at the end of the day, if the bug/exploit is removed, I'd be fine with it, it was fun while it lasted, but the devs would have been right to remove it. And I'd own up to it, maybe I'll do it proudly, maybe I won't, but I'll own up to it, I won't even attempt to justify my actions. Bugs/exploits are wrong, maybe not as bad as downright cheating/hacking (though in some scenario, they are just as bad), and wrong is still wrong no matter how much one try to justify it.

I disagree with you completely about your point about no exploits in the only way, and that its impossible to justify exploitation use. All it would take is just the devs discussing a helpful bug that everyone is using, and either talking it out with them on what to do about it, or just explain their logc behind removing it, rather than just straight up removing it without recourse. I also disagree that exploits are unambiguously wrong, because that just closes any arguments of their potential application/use in the game without recourse. There should ALWAYS be a discussion about things of this nature, because how can we decide something is good or not if we don't take the time to look over the issue?

Can we agree to disagree on this? I believe that we are not convincing each other the merits of our arguments, so why don't we end this discussion now, rather than drag it out?

[MonkeyLord83]

There should ALWAYS be a discussion about things of this nature, because how can we decide something is good or not if we don't take the time to look over the issue?

Can we agree to disagree on this? I believe that we are not convincing each other the merits of our arguments, so why don't we end this discussion now, rather than drag it out?

Thing is, NOTHING is completely good or completely bad, everything is both. So while I do see that discussion is needed, I also see that discussion in most case will accomplish NOTHING in the long term as people will always see what they want to see. Some will always see something as good/acceptable, and some other out there will always see that same thing as unacceptable, no matter how much discussion put into it. I see your point and I get it, but I'm looking at the bigger picture when I say that's just NOT how arguments and society work... No argument in history ever truly been won, one side either all died or got tired of arguing, but they never stop believing their point of view, and they never really got convinced. Maybe people can understand the other point of view and grudgingly reach a compromise, OR it can end badly in flame, wars, and bloodshed, but we human never really "win" or "lose" an argument, not when both side have valid points and supporting 2 different ideals.

As for what you said regarding justifying exploitation. If we justify HA chain breeding bug, how long will it takes people to use that to push forward duping Pokemon/item, cloning save on the principle that it's not much different, as they are all exploitation? Would it really be fair to say one exploit is okay and the other not just because YOU feel that way? Who gets to be the judge, and what gives them the rights? I believe the community already agreed upon the current devs, so what's the point of dragging out an arguments for whether the bugs should be acceptable or not if our devs get the final saying anyway? And so what if they do or don't give any reason why they do something? Would it really change anything? Like when Andro removed the shiny star, it was collateral damages and it was clear from the start, but people still rage for days because of that, some even purposely stay downgraded for that star. The devs will always do what they believe is right, and sometimes that means the tough choices that won't please everyone in the community, or even displease the majority of the community. But we still have to respect that because we trust and believe in them enough... unless you wanna look for new devs...