Phantom's Art Thread - just Pokemon

[Iron]

If so I'ma try to get one.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

I also quite like the idea of that Delta Orchynx.  Would it be fine with you if I were to use that in my eventual pokerole campaign, Phantom?

As long as you credit me as the creator of the design and stick with the moveset I made up, sure, go for it!~ I might make a better drawing, a sprite, or the apperance of its evolution for that sake in addition to that slightly messy one-hour-drawing.

If so I'ma try to get one.

It feels like a fine companion for a tough or naturalistic character who wouldn't mind searching snowy mountain tops or secluded forests for rare Pokemon.

[Dragonstrike]

As long as you credit me as the creator of the design and stick with the moveset I made up, sure, go for it!~ I might make a better drawing, a sprite, or the apperance of its evolution for that sake in addition to that slightly messy one-hour-drawing.

Of course!  And if you come up with any further information for it (such as potential abilities/differing base stats) and/or draw some more stuff relating to it, I'd love to know!

[Lord Windos]

Darn and knit it, I keep finding out about your latest art updates late, dear! Curses, I say, CURSES!!!

Anyhow, yet again you've produced cute and lovely art that my eyes can't help but eat up! My fav of the latest batches is a tie between M-Kiricorn and Shiny Glaceon/Luxi (Luxor?) , as both just look so stylish and cool! Only pics I can say I have qualms with is Mama Metalynx and Delta Orchynx, with the form I find her expression to be a bit too serious/not cute enough. That's just my opinion, though, so take it with a grain of salt!

Concerning the Delta Orchynx, I don't think it looks bad first of all. Its just.....well, I basically dislike its typing, and find its learnset to be a bit wanting unless it has Mixed Attack Stats or Good Egg Moves lurking off-screen. Ice/Steel has so many common and deadly weaknesses its almost like its Steel typing doesn't exist, and the frosted feline is just crying out for Ice Shard and/or Icicle Crash to add to its arsenal. The only way I can see it working well in Pokerole is if it had the amazing ability Filter to reduce its crippling weakness down to only Fighting and Fire, giving it something like Slush Rush/Weather Ability and/or naturally high DEX + Powerful STAB and coverage options to be an offensive Ice type, or has some sort of Move or tech that overcomes the limitations of its typing. As it stands, I just can't support this iteration of your D-Orchynx, which just sucks for me since I hate disliking it when you put a lot of thought and effort into making the chilly cat. Sorry Phantom.....

[Dragonstrike]

Concerning the Delta Orchynx, I don't think it looks bad first of all. Its just.....well, I basically dislike its typing, and find its learnset to be a bit wanting unless it has Mixed Attack Stats or Good Egg Moves lurking off-screen. Ice/Steel has so many common and deadly weaknesses its almost like its Steel typing doesn't exist, and the frosted feline is just crying out for Ice Shard and/or Icicle Crash to add to its arsenal. The only way I can see it working well in Pokerole is if it had the amazing ability Filter to reduce its crippling weakness down to only Fighting and Fire, giving it something like Slush Rush/Weather Ability and/or naturally high DEX + Powerful STAB and coverage options to be an offensive Ice type, or has some sort of Move or tech that overcomes the limitations of its typing. As it stands, I just can't support this iteration of your D-Orchynx, which just sucks for me since I hate disliking it when you put a lot of thought and effort into making the chilly cat. Sorry Phantom.....

Honestly, I'm of the opposite opinion.  I like D-Orchynx's design because it's not fully optimized.  It reminds me of the base designs for the canon pokemon, where flavoring is more of a concern than functionality.

While Ice/Steel isn't an awesome defensive typing on its own, it fits the concept rather well, and I love it.  And I'm sure that either Phantom and/or I can come up with ways to make up for any shortcomings (though being able to increase its Defense by 2 via either Barrier or Hail in Pokerole is pretty strong as is) if necessary.  And even though it does have two 4x weaknesses to Fighting and Fire, it only has 3 weaknesses total (Ground being the third), 8 Resistances, 1 Immunity, and we're not talking about competitive pokemon where the most powerful attacks of the most commonly used attacking types are getting thrown in your face constantly.  So I think it can definitely work.

[Lord Windos]

Spoiler

Honestly, I'm of the opposite opinion.  I like D-Orchynx's design because it's not fully optimized.  It reminds me of the base designs for the canon pokemon, where flavoring is more of a concern than functionality.

While Ice/Steel isn't an awesome defensive typing on its own, it fits the concept rather well, and I love it.  And I'm sure that either Phantom and/or I can come up with ways to make up for any shortcomings (though being able to increase its Defense by 2 via either Barrier or Hail in Pokerole is pretty strong as is) if necessary.  And even though it does have two 4x weaknesses to Fighting and Fire, it only has 3 weaknesses total (Ground being the third), 8 Resistances, 1 Immunity, and we're not talking about competitive pokemon where the most powerful attacks of the most commonly used attacking types are getting thrown in your face constantly.  So I think it can definitely work.

Personally, I'm always geared towards competitive and optimized strats + gameplay, as no matter how awesome a Pokemon is conceptually or the unique traits they have, if they have such massive liabilities and/or not too good stats/moves, then I'm not going to enjoy it. Dragonite is one of my favorite Pokemon, for example, but in Showdown I hardly ever use them because getting the most of the OG Dragon is not easy as running other more robust/reliable Pokemon like T-Lando. I also happen to find Aggron and Bastiodon to be really cool Pokemon, but their huge Weakness to common types leaves a lot to be desire, even with high Utility Moves, Sandstorm, and/or Defense Buffs. 

As for its Typing, those three Weakness happen to be some of the most common Moves in the game, and its still takes neutral Damage from Electrics + Water + Steel types without being able to do much to them (especially Bulky Waters and Heavy Metals, since they resist BOTH of their STABs). Fire types are also just straight up a Hard Counter to Ice/Steel because they get QE on them and resist their STABs, which in Iron's Pokerole is what a Pokemon will have to settle for, as coverage, TM, Tutor, and Egg Moves are at a premium unless you're one of a select few Pokemon or have oddles of Poke/XP to spend. Sure, Hail Buffs and/or Barrier works to give it a lot of Defense to mitigate those problems, and it has a pretty killer offensive typing, but the trade off of being a Glass Cannon with debatebly good Defenses/attack power is just too steep for my liking. I agree that in Pokerole making Phantom's D-Metalynx work would not be an insurmountable task, but it would certainly be harder to do than most other Pokemon. Of course, since I now permanently own a Bastiodon via Terra, I really should be one to throw stones here, but....well, you get my points, right?

However, I don't necessarily find it wrong to have these sorts of flavor or unoptimal 'mons, since they do provide a lot of variety, quirkiness, and pleasing asethetics, which goes a long way to keeping a game fresh. Plus, they can bring with them all sorts of unique Moves/traits that could be game changing in the right hands. You just won't see me using those sorts of Pokemon, unless I can find a way around that and make them good in spite of its inherent flaws, or it has something else going for it. If others want to use inoptimal Pokemon, good on them, and if they can make them work, even greater! To paraphrase an old saying: to each their own, and darn anyone that says otherwise!

[Dragonstrike]

Spoiler

Personally, I'm always geared towards competitive and optimized strats + gameplay, as no matter how awesome a Pokemon is conceptually or the unique traits they have, if they have such massive liabilities and/or not too good stats/moves, then I'm not going to enjoy it. Dragonite is one of my favorite Pokemon, for example, but in Showdown I hardly ever use them because getting the most of the OG Dragon is not easy as running other more robust/reliable Pokemon like T-Lando. I also happen to find Aggron and Bastiodon to be really cool Pokemon, but their huge Weakness to common types leaves a lot to be desire, even with high Utility Moves, Sandstorm, and/or Defense Buffs. 

As for its Typing, those three Weakness happen to be some of the most common Moves in the game, and its still takes neutral Damage from Electrics + Water + Steel types without being able to do much to them (especially Bulky Waters and Heavy Metals, since they resist BOTH of their STABs). Fire types are also just straight up a Hard Counter to Ice/Steel because they get QE on them and resist their STABs, which in Iron's Pokerole is what a Pokemon will have to settle for, as coverage, TM, Tutor, and Egg Moves are at a premium unless you're one of a select few Pokemon or have oddles of Poke/XP to spend. Sure, Hail Buffs and/or Barrier works to give it a lot of Defense to mitigate those problems, and it has a pretty killer offensive typing, but the trade off of being a Glass Cannon with debatebly good Defenses/attack power is just too steep for my liking. I agree that in Pokerole making Phantom's D-Metalynx work would not be an insurmountable task, but it would certainly be harder to do than most other Pokemon. Of course, since I now permanently own a Bastiodon via Terra, I really should be one to throw stones here, but....well, you get my points, right?

However, I don't necessarily find it wrong to have these sorts of flavor or unoptimal 'mons, since they do provide a lot of variety, quirkiness, and pleasing asethetics, which goes a long way to keeping a game fresh. Plus, they can bring with them all sorts of unique Moves/traits that could be game changing in the right hands. You just won't see me using those sorts of Pokemon, unless I can find a way around that and make them good in spite of its inherent flaws, or it has something else going for it. If others want to use inoptimal Pokemon, good on them, and if they can make them work, even greater! To paraphrase an old saying: to each their own, and darn anyone that says otherwise!

Honestly, this isn't really the thread to be discussing this.  I think Phantom did a good job with the art and altering the basic level up moves to match it, and this thread exists to show that off.  No need for it to be more complex than that, right?

For the record though...

...the types listed in order of their commonality from most to least is...

- Water
- Normal
- Flying
- Grass
- Psychic
- Bug
- Fire
- Poison
- Ground
- Rock
- Fighting
- Dark
- Steel
- Electric
- Fairy and Dragon (they tie for third/fourth rarest type as of gen 7)
- Ghost
- Ice

While Ground, Fighting, and Fire are some of the most common offensive moves competitively, it doesn't mean they're the most common type by a long shot.  Ice is amazingly common as a coverage move in competitive, for example, yet it's also the least common type all around.  Competitive trends aren't necessarily reflective of how a pokemon will perform in a practical, casual setting.  I honestly prefer to keep my competitive and casual mindsets separate when possible (and I've not really done much that grinds the competitive gears recently, tbh, beyond a little theorizing here and there for Uranium's competitive scene.)

Yeah, the points you bring up are valid concerns in some cases, but there are workarounds (or can be.  I know I'm planning some stuff for my campaign that could make some of those concerns irrelevant in the later stages of it, even disregarding any information D-Orchynx is missing that would define how it's used), and I personally don't think it's that bad of a situation for several reasons.  And honestly, I think playing fully optimally all the time can get boring since it means you'd be playing the same way every single time, and you could miss out on experiencing some really fun stuff as a result.

But yeah, back on topic...once again, great job with the art, Phantom!

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Haha, nevermind that you're late according to your taste, @Lord Windos - late feedback is better than none at all after all, and you've said that college stuff is keeping you rather busy at the moment. I hope you'll soon have more free time. ♡


I had like, admittedly, zero competitive or battle-related or PokeRole-related thoughts when creating that alternative/Type/Form for Orchynx. ^^; I'm usually not very good at practical competitive battling and just tend to pick those Pokemon to use with that I like for any reason or simply enjoy and would like to use if given the free choice, regardless whether they're the best fighters or similar: The same case was when creaing this Ice/Steel Orchynx, I picked a Pokemon from Uranium I enjoy, looked at its nature and concept and pondered what would make a fitting alternative form. I don't create things to be optimized either, I guess anyone who wants to use a particular 'Mon will find a way to make it useful and great unless it happens to be utter trash for reasons - These poor creatures.

Now to think about it however, maybe giving it Ice Fang at early Lv.9 is a bit too much, let me replace that with Ice Shard.

[Dragonstrike]

Now to think about it however, maybe giving it Ice Fang at early Lv.9 is a bit too much, let me replace that with Ice Shard.

*scribbles some notes down*

Looking at the trends of when both moves are learned in the canon games, Ice Shard at lv 9 definitely seems to be more in line with the canon pokemon design choices.  Ice Fang is typically learned in the mid 20s, with a few exceptions that learn it earlier (16 being the earliest).

In summary, I think Ice Shard being learned at lv 9 is an all around positive change.

[Lord Windos]

(...)

I agree with you for the most part (I do not agree she did good on the basic Learnset, and I mean that in a critical not mean way) , but I find such conversation to be both fun and somewhat enlightening, since we usually don't talk about this stuff much anymore. Variety and the unexpected are some of the spices of life, after all! 

As I said early, to each their own! My thoughts on Pokemon is that even in casual/non competitive settings you should try to make teams of Pokemon and their training/Move choices to be somewhat competitive or utility based, as to me it makes things easier, more fun, and less likely to be an inconvenience. If you're prepared with the higher tiers in mind, then you're prepared for anything below that, right? 

I'm aware their are workabouts to buff Weak Types, but I would still prefer using Types/Pokemon that didn't require either me or the GM (In Pokerole) to go through loops/put a lot of effort in to make that so. For the record, I also don't usually play fully optimally in the base games (Did mono-Ghost in Moon!), but I do have a firm idea of what team and Moves they have in order to compensate. 

That's all I have to say about this now, so back to appreciating Phantom's artwork!