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Lord Windos · 06-16-2020, 08:22 PM

Alright, I finally managed to scrabble together a list of TMs/TRs that I think are worth our consideration for one reason or another, so here they are:

Eligable TMs/TRs Type Pools

Bug:

Dragon

Electric

Fairy:
N/A

Fighting

Fire

Flying

Ghost
Shadow Ball & Shadow Claw: These are the only Ghost Moves that are avaliable, but at least they're good enough

Grass

Ground

Ice

Normal

Poison

Psychic
N/A

Rock

Steel

Water

Moves that have * beside them are ones that I want to see picked by the group, either by Ventus or someone else. I'll need to review his and Terra's Pokemon to see what TM coverage/options they may want and that may alter my choices, but for now I'll let this big list stand and let everyone pick and choose their choice of TMs before we move onto to negotiating which ones will be gotten in the end.

Dragonstrike · (This post was last modified: 06-16-2020, 09:03 PM by Dragonstrike.)

Keep in mind most of said moves have to be in the pokemon's movepool in the book to be teachable by Iron's rules. That really cuts into how many pokemon can learn which moves, and they end up not being so widely teachable in the end.

Note on Ghost and Fairy: including TMs and TRs from Gen 2 and 8 give us a few more options than what the traditional TM listings that have been around since Gens 3 and 4 offer.

- Misty Terrain, Charm, and Draining Kiss for Fairy

- Nightmare, Curse, Hex, and Phantom Force for Ghost

Gen 1 also offers a couple more wacky, non-traditional options such as Sky Attack, Teleport, Self Destruct, Counter, and Metronome.

Most of the above moves (and others in those categories that I haven't listed) are gonna be for niche picks on specific pokemon as a result of Iron's ruling, but they definitely shouldn't be discounted entirely when every TM and TR for moves that exist in Gens 1-6 are an option.

There's also a couple other strong, usable moves on endgame movepools that didn't make Windos's list. Like Muddy Water or Hydro Pump for Water, or Drill Run or Earth Power for Ground.

Dragonstrike · (This post was last modified: 06-16-2020, 09:55 PM by Dragonstrike.)

Well, looking at my list of wishlist moves, and considering that some Gen 8 stuff might also be up for grabs, I guess these are the other particular moves I'd be looking at getting, organized by type:

That should be most of the moves I'm interested in. Yes, it's a long list, and yes, it's subject to change. My highest priority moves are ones that I plan to teach to Gallade (Misty Terrain, Dazzling Gleam, Thunder Punch, Psychic, Close Combat), Charizard (Flare Blitz, Dragon Dance, maybe Thunder Punch), Swiftfire (maybe Flare Blitz), Orthros (Nasty Plot, Reversal), Grid (Giga Drain, Cross Poison), Porygon-Z (Tri Attack), Starmie (Signal Beam, Power Gem), and Princess (Air Slash/Acrobatics, Power Gem) since I'm very likely to continue using them semi-consistently in the future, but I'd still like a good mix of options for various secondary pokemon as well.

Lord Windos · 06-16-2020, 11:20 PM

(06-16-2020, 08:58 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote: Keep in mind most of said moves have to be in the pokemon's movepool in the book to be teachable by Iron's rules. That really cuts into how many pokemon can learn which moves, and they end up not being so widely teachable in the end.

Note on Ghost and Fairy: including TMs and TRs from Gen 2 and 8 give us a few more options than what the traditional TM listings that have been around since Gens 3 and 4 offer.

- Misty Terrain, Charm, and Draining Kiss for Fairy

- Nightmare, Curse, Hex, and Phantom Force for Ghost

Gen 1 also offers a couple more wacky, non-traditional options such as Sky Attack, Teleport, Self Destruct, Counter, and Metronome.

Most of the above moves (and others in those categories that I haven't listed) are gonna be for niche picks on specific pokemon as a result of Iron's ruling, but they definitely shouldn't be discounted entirely when every TM and TR for moves that exist in Gens 1-6 are an option.

There's also a couple other strong, usable moves on endgame movepools that didn't make Windos's list. Like Muddy Water or Hydro Pump for Water, or Drill Run or Earth Power for Ground.

.....I have to say that Iron is being awfully restricting with how usable TMs are at this point in the game, and that is putting a damper on the bounty they offered. Makes me question why they gave us a blank check in the first place, if we can't cash it in for what we want. Limitations of movepools for balancing shake was fine enough prior to the Skull Ruins endgame, I suppose, but now that the game has gone Diceless and everyone is roughly capable of doing just about anything with their given Stats and Pokemon's capabilities (Let alone everyone individual Plot Devices).....it seem rather pointless, at least to me.

*Sighs* That means if I need to have a list of everyone's Pokemon so I can look up their Movepools in Iron's version of the Corebook, and then cross refrence those pools to the TM/TR Pools to get a truly accurate list of TMs that we can actually use to non-niche effect, and that is frankly too much work for me. I say at this point everyone should just look up their each of their fav Pokemon's Corebook Movepools and pick the Moves they want like you did, since at that point we have a solid enough idea of what we can haggle and debate about. I'll get to my Lists for Terra and Ventus later, when I'm a bit less more enthused with the prospect of doing all that research again with the limitations in mind....

Of course, in the case for Arete and Gemini, two Pokemon that don't have their Movepools listed in the Corebook due to being Legends, I suppose they simply can't learn any of the TMs found in the lab? Or are they exceptions to the rule, also due to being Legendary Pokemon?

Didn't catch the Fairy and Ghost Moves you mentioned, so kudos for bring them up! Gives us a bit more to choose from (however much that is within the strict limitations), though I have to say Phantom Force is a bit wanting unless it has RP applications.

Yeap, I knew about them oddball TMs, but I refrained from including them over the other options I mentioned, seeing as those were strictly speaking more useful than them (Or in Teleport's case, I already mentioned it in the thread previously). Its for that very same reason I also didn't bring up Muddy Water, Drill Run, etc. , though in the case of Earth Power I probably should've included that in my list as well.

Lord Windos · 06-16-2020, 11:38 PM

Concerning Dedenne and their capabilities, Ventus will want to borrow them to get out his own reports and assessments to Dagny too once he sees and understands what they're doing, since he want to put forth his own two cents and perspective on things with his close partner/respected boss and work his own angle with her as to how to resolve the whole situation around Shiva's personal Nucleon. He's not terribly keen on leaving the reporting of everything to Nathan about this, since he knows their own beliefs and personality would skew them away from suggesting some things could be done 'below board' , and as a researcher he used to working alone or heading projects he's used to and more comfortable making reports on findings himself.

Dragonstrike · 06-16-2020, 11:57 PM

(06-16-2020, 11:38 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Concerning Dedenne and their capabilities, Ventus will want to borrow them to get out his own reports and assessments to Dagny too once he sees and understands what they're doing, since he want to put forth his own two cents and perspective on things with his close partner/respected boss and work his own angle with her as to how to resolve the whole situation around Shiva's personal Nucleon. He's not terribly keen on leaving the reporting of everything to Nathan about this, since he knows their own beliefs and personality would skew them away from suggesting some things could be done 'below board' , and as a researcher he used to working alone or heading projects he's used to and more comfortable making reports on findings himself.

Or we could just wait and see what Dagny suggests for the things that need immediate input? Nathan's not a stranger to Dagny working around the law when necessary, after all. And there's definitely things on Garlicburg that shouldn't become public knowledge.

Lord Windos · 06-17-2020, 09:47 AM

(06-16-2020, 11:57 PM)Dragonstrike Wrote:
(06-16-2020, 11:38 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: Concerning Dedenne and their capabilities, Ventus will want to borrow them to get out his own reports and assessments to Dagny too once he sees and understands what they're doing, since he want to put forth his own two cents and perspective on things with his close partner/respected boss and work his own angle with her as to how to resolve the whole situation around Shiva's personal Nucleon. He's not terribly keen on leaving the reporting of everything to Nathan about this, since he knows their own beliefs and personality would skew them away from suggesting some things could be done 'below board' , and as a researcher he used to working alone or heading projects he's used to and more comfortable making reports on findings himself.

Or we could just wait and see what Dagny suggests for the things that need immediate input? Nathan's not a stranger to Dagny working around the law when necessary, after all. And there's definitely things on Garlicburg that shouldn't become public knowledge.

If you want to reserve Dedenne entirely to Nathan, that is your decision, and I'll respect it. Ven won't like it one bit, though.

Dragonstrike · 06-17-2020, 11:47 AM

There we go. Nucleon problem solved.

PhantomUnderYourDesk · (This post was last modified: 06-17-2020, 12:59 PM by PhantomUnderYourDesk.)

Mass-tag incoming.
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@Spiritmon, I'm unfortunately the very last person you should ask about thoughts on whether to pick up a TM of a OHKO-Move or not, as I generally dislike these moves and would likely never pick them up myself. Do as you please though, up to you to decide!~

(06-16-2020, 11:20 PM)Lord Windos Wrote: (...)I say at this point everyone should just look up their each of their fav Pokemon's Corebook Movepools and pick the Moves they want like you did, since at that point we have a solid enough idea of what we can haggle and debate about. I'll get to my Lists for Terra and Ventus later, when I'm a bit less more enthused with the prospect of doing all that research again with the limitations in mind....(...)

I kinda did exactly that already, my dear, bar openly stating for which Pokemon of mine the move shall be... Here's the link to my claimed TMs once more. I've got a list of snippingtool'd screenshots from the corebook of all Pokemon Shiva's got, that way it's relatively fast and easy to check for level-up and ?-moves.

Either way, I'll await your list of desired TM, do take your time. THEN we can see all together what slots are still open and negotiate if there are more desired picks of moves than slots are open.

(06-17-2020, 11:47 AM)Dragonstrike Wrote: There we go. Nucleon problem solved.

Yes it is, which is good! But I still feel like I should speak up my mind instead of just...glossing over it :

- I don't especially appreciate that you went ahead and spoiled towards Dagny that Shiva picked up that smol Nucleon, as I wanted it to be my chara herself to approach her with that point... Yes I understand that you want to help and speed things up possibly, but in this case, as much or little of a big deal it was, it rather strongly clashed with my own plans and course of action, which is not really fun. Just something I want you to keep in mind, okay? No harm meant, but try not to overdo it with wanting to help.

- Related to that, I asked Ventus in particular to be the one to take pictures of all the caged Nucleon, so it'll still be him who'll send these to the League/Dagny once we're having a signal. He kinda just works for her, and Shiva in-chara trusts him more to get away with shady stuff.

- Furthermore, different topic: Misty Terrain appears only in Gardevoir's learnable moves in the corebook (a Lv.0 move), I'm sure you're aware of this. But... Is it legit for a member of a split-evolution-line to learn a move that actually only the other split-evolution learns???? I'm confused... If it IS legit however, then I'm all fine to let you pick up this TM for the third Fairy-Slot, just kinda needs GM's confirmation.

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Thanks for the list of TM-moves! I'll make up a small lits of claimed Slots now. ^v^

Dragonstrike · (This post was last modified: 06-17-2020, 01:12 PM by Dragonstrike.)

(06-17-2020, 12:57 PM)PhantomUnderYourDesk Wrote: - Furthermore, different topic: Misty Terrain appears only in Gardevoir's learnable moves in the corebook (a Lv.0 move), I'm sure you're aware of this. But... Is it legit for a member of a split-evolution-line to learn a move that actually only the other split-evolution learns???? I'm confused... If it IS legit however, then I'm all fine to let you pick up this TM for the third Fairy-Slot, just kinda needs GM's confirmation.

That's what the Scims intended to use the Neverstone for (move variety that would be difficult to achieve, if not impossible), and what I wanted to use it for originally as well (which I explained in the Fairy section). If the TM doesn't work, I'll probably have to pull some shenanigans with tutors to get it, but I intend to get the move either way,

This also isn't exactly super relevant to the campaign by the book/Iron's rules, but Ralts are also able to learn Misty Terrain as an Egg move in Gen 7 and via the TM in Gen 8. It's not completely far fetched for a Gallade to be able to use the move, imo.

---------------------------------

A bit unnecessary to call me out for something that I wouldn't have had an easy way of knowing for certain without being told beforehand, methinks. And Ventus isn't the only one who uses Dagny as a frequent contact when things need to be done discreetly. *shrug*

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