[Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows

[Dragonstrike]

WARNING: Volume gets rather loud!

[Lord Windos]

WARNING: Volume gets rather loud!

Personally I grew to enjoy Monster Houses, as they became one of the few true tests of skill and power after you learn to master the various systems of PMD. If you got the right inventory and Moves you can still find ways to trivilize them, but then against that's part of the fun with them: do you dedicate moveslots and inventory just for these rare occassions, or do you not and risk being at a severe disadvantage just for more flexibility? 

Onto the actual Mob Fight itself....

Spoiler

(...)
Now then, it's time for a Monster Hoooooooooouuuuuuuusssssseeee!

Groupings:
Gigalith Group: Zeraora, Dedenne, Bunnelby, Rolycoly
Archeops Group: Roserade, Rhyperior
Butterfree Group: Platina, Kee, Snom, Hoopa
Victreebel Group: Madame Twintails, Emolga, Karen, Kogeki
Probopass Group: Daxter, Sheena, Rowlet, Keldeo


The items scattered around the room:
- 3 Oran Berries
- 2 Reviver Seeds
- 2 Pecha Berries
- 1 Chesto Berry
- 2 Rawst Berries
- 5 piles of 100 Poké
- An item that looks suspiciously like a normal stick, but there seems to be a gathering of energy at its tip that makes it look like a wizard's wand.  The energy looks rather volatile, but it might be able to be weaponized...

VS Shadow Butterfree Initiatives
Platina: (3) +7 = 10
Carbink: (5) +5 = 10
Snom: (5) +5 = 10
Butterfree: (1) +6 = 7
Petilil: (3) +4 = 7
Hoopa: (1) +5 = 6
Kee: (1) +5 = 6

VS Shadow Victreebel Initiatives
Madame Twintales: (3) +7 = 10
Emolga: (2) +7 = 9
Kogeki: (6) +3 = 9
Sudowoodo: (4) +5 = 9
Victreebel: (2) +6 = 8
Ledyba: (1) +4 = 5
Karen: (1) +3 = 4

VS Shadow Probopass Intitiatives
Keldeo: (3) +8 = 11
Daxter: (3) +6 = 9
Probopass: (3) +6 = 9
Crustle: (3) +5 = 8
Sheena: (1) +6 = 7
Mime Jr.: (2) +4 = 6
Rowlet: (1) +5 = 6

Only give me orders for attacks against your assigned group please!  And just like before, you may make suggestions to the NPCs in your group about what they should be doing.

To get this right out of the way first: I think everyone should avoid hunting for Items mid-combat, unless absolutely necessary. Let the NPCs take those risks mid-fight and save dividing up Loot post fight, when we can find creative ways to avoid triggering Traps that could majorly inconvenience us down the line. Most of the stuff isn't too hot outside the Wand and Revivers, but they're not vital to get unless we get really unlucky with our rolls. Of course this could mean the PC groups gets less dosh and goodies post fight, but that's irrelevant since their are always opportunities later for more Loot and we need to stay focused on not getting to brutalized for our future face off with Landorous.

As for how we should face each group....

Dax's: Since I vaguely recall you like to do things your own way, I'll withhold advice unless you ask. Rather not step on your toes, really.

Kogeki's: Initially Gang up on Sudowoodu ASAP, then transition to Ledyba and lastly Victreebell. Sudowoodu is a menace and wild card with his probable move range, while the other two are threats in their own right but not AS severe. If Victreebel pulls out some major BS Move or shows Spread Moves, however, you might want to focus it down after or even before Sudo goes down. I don't know everyone's Moves here, but I do know that Quick Attack probably isn't the right call against the Rock Type, but that might be unavoidable to use due to it being Linked to Shadow Punch. Emolga should definitely Nuzzle Sudo or Victree as their first Action, though - take away those Dice from their Accuracy Pools!

Kee's and Platina's: I like to employ the whole 'Punch Down' strat here - Platina and Snowm would target Petil in the hopes of OHKOing it before it gets their turn, then everyone focuses on Shadow Butterfree. If Petil is still in good condition/unFainted by the time Kee's and Hoopa's turn comes around, however, they should still focus on Butterfree to try and lower it's overall Accuracy/Actions. Kee's Snarl should be able to nicely be able to target both Petil and Butters, but then again he could just opt for a Headbutt to try and Flitch them out of their next Action and deal more overall damage. Carbink should be handled last - sure, it getting Reflect and using it's other annoying Moves is bad, but they're a far more minor threat than whatever status hell Butters and Petil can inflict on the group, and if it has Flail we really don't want to power it up before everyone can swiftly dogpile it into oblivion.

General Tip: Only plot out 1 Round of Orders for the time being, until we get an idea of what the enemy groups are capable of. Less likely to be blindsided that way, me thinks!

Now, does anyone have their own advice to chip in? Please let us know, so we can optimally wallop these scoundrels and get on with saving Lando!

[Dragonstrike]

Personally I grew to enjoy Monster Houses, as they became one of the few true tests of skill and power after you learn to master the various systems of PMD. If you got the right inventory and Moves you can still find ways to trivilize them, but then against that's part of the fun with them: do you dedicate moveslots and inventory just for these rare occassions, or do you not and risk being at a severe disadvantage just for more flexibility? 

There's at least still a lot of merit in room nuking moves even without encountering a Monster House.  Not needing to be positioned in a straight line from your target can be very helpful.  Or your worst nightmare when the wild Nidoqueen are sniping you with Earth Power from the opposite side of the room you just entered.  That's always 'fun'.  Best counter to room clearing moves from wild pokemon is usually room clearing moves of your own because of that.  Being able to clear out Monster Houses with that same move in a pinch ends up being a nice cherry on top.

The most dangerous Monster Houses though are by far the ones that not only get the jump on you while you're inadequately equipped for them, but then proceed to buff the entire room or dogpile on you from range.  Hence why Agility Aerodactyl in Sky Tower and Discharge Porygon [all members of the evolution line] in Temporal Tower are so feared and reviled in the PMD community.

I'm kinda numb to Monster Houses myself for the most part.  Mostly because I never set out to a dungeon without several countermeasures for them whenever I happen to start acquiring those resources, so I see them more as opportunities for rare loot than an actual threat in most instances.  I'm honestly more worried about running into random pokemon with Hydro Pump in the newer games (hits in a line and pierces, which is a death sentence for a party in a corridor) than I am about Monster Houses.  And anything with Perish Song can just cease to exist, thank you very much (cures for that Perish status are far more specialized than anything else you typically need to prepare)

[Spiritmon]

Can I do some reaction later about everything tomorrow Dragonstrike? To the moment we enter the realm to the actual fight? Didn't get enough time since these days I been busy.

[Lord Windos]

Personally I grew to enjoy Monster Houses, as they became one of the few true tests of skill and power after you learn to master the various systems of PMD. If you got the right inventory and Moves you can still find ways to trivilize them, but then against that's part of the fun with them: do you dedicate moveslots and inventory just for these rare occassions, or do you not and risk being at a severe disadvantage just for more flexibility? 

There's at least still a lot of merit in room nuking moves even without encountering a Monster House.  Not needing to be positioned in a straight line from your target can be very helpful.  Or your worst nightmare when the wild Nidoqueen are sniping you with Earth Power from the opposite side of the room you just entered.  That's always 'fun'.  Best counter to room clearing moves from wild pokemon is usually room clearing moves of your own because of that.  Being able to clear out Monster Houses with that same move in a pinch ends up being a nice cherry on top.

The most dangerous Monster Houses though are by far the ones that not only get the jump on you while you're inadequately equipped for them, but then proceed to buff the entire room or dogpile on you from range.  Hence why Agility Aerodactyl in Sky Tower and Discharge Porygon [all members of the evolution line] in Temporal Tower are so feared and reviled in the PMD community.

I'm kinda numb to Monster Houses myself for the most part.  Mostly because I never set out to a dungeon without several countermeasures for them whenever I happen to start acquiring those resources, so I see them more as opportunities for rare loot than an actual threat in most instances.  I'm honestly more worried about running into random pokemon with Hydro Pump in the newer games (hits in a line and pierces, which is a death sentence for a party in a corridor) than I am about Monster Houses.  And anything with Perish Song can just cease to exist, thank you very much (cures for that Perish status are far more specialized than anything else you typically need to prepare)

Oh yeeeeaaah,  I remember those Nidoqueens and Poygons. Even experience as I was those were the real hair tearers of my games. Makes me glad the distribution of those wicked Moves and the levels they are gotten are so bleeding rare in the early PMD games. Never had too much trouble with the Aerodactyls, tho - I guess I got real lucky with them or had a robust enough team that their shenanigans weren't enough to put me down. I also have 'fond' memories of pretty much any Hail and Sand dungeons, as having to manage my health on top of trying to survive the random BS that populate said dungeons is 'fun' too. On a lesser note I dislike running into Keck shops in dungeons generally, since you typically don't want to carry around the necessary dosh to get their best items and therefore you're SOL unless you got a Pure Seed and a few Revivers to make a heist anyway viable. And the less said about trying to recruit said Keck, the better - took me a week of constant attempts myself.

Perish Song is total BS - I avoid those Dungeons unless I got a Pokemon with Aromatherapy and/or Refresh and about a page worth of Revivers. What were the designers thinking when they ported that status over? Probably the same idiocy of them choosing to use Phamphy over Cuboone in EoS and not giving it Mud Slap or some other Ground Move to use in its Move Pool.

[Dragonstrike]

Can I do some reaction later about everything tomorrow Dragonstrike? To the moment we enter the realm to the actual fight? Didn't get enough time since these days I been busy.

Yup, feel free.

[Dragonstrike]

...

Probably the same idiocy of them choosing to use Phamphy over Cuboone in EoS and not giving it Mud Slap or some other Ground Move to use in its Move Pool.

Funny story: Phanpy actually does have a Ground type move in its movepool.  Natural Gift works in mysterious ways, and doesn't always consume the held item in PMD.  Give Phanpy a Reviver Seed, and NG becomes a 2 star power Ground move.  Give Phanpy a Reviser Seed instead though (only doable in Sky for obvious reasons), and it becomes an 11 star power Ground type move (Earthquake is 5 if I'm reading Bulbapedia correctly, while Focus Punch is 20). And neither item is consumed by using NG either iirc.

You have to give up your held item slot to use that of course, but the sheer power of that STAB is arguably worth it until you get a good Ground TM that Phanpy can use without obliterating its team.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Original posts

WARNING: Volume gets rather loud!

Personally I grew to enjoy Monster Houses, as they became one of the few true tests of skill and power after you learn to master the various systems of PMD. If you got the right inventory and Moves you can still find ways to trivilize them, but then against that's part of the fun with them: do you dedicate moveslots and inventory just for these rare occassions, or do you not and risk being at a severe disadvantage just for more flexibility? 

Ahahaha, that short video is such a whole mood. Even if a Monster House may be a whole dealbreaker in a PMD-Game (Joy© on every foe being triple or quadruple the speed thanks to Agility-Aerodactyl and a group of Porygon-Z spamming Discharge just because), I grew to somewhat...enjoy them, now to think of it! Once I am strong or capable enough to deal with them in-game, that is, which means less so early-ingame where I haven't gathered enough Orbs and Seeds to always - always, double so on longer dungeons - dedicate at least one Inventory Slot to an Item to instantly-defuse a Monster House and all calmly collect all the loot laying around. The Gummies are too good to leave behind more often then not, even if they're very obviously a trap.

Twice the Joy on entering a new floor in a dungeon and directly spawning into a Monster house.


Probably going to post either tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, too exhausted to start typing it out now.

Oh right, @Dragonstrike, a question: What was the rule for learnable moves, is the Level a move is learned equal to the amount of XP needed/spent? I do have all the moves Galarian Ziggy + evolutions can learn via level-up linked and additionally saved up as a document on Kee's charasheet, but it's been...a while, so apologies for plainly forgetting how level-up moves are handled/learned.

[Dragonstrike]

Oh right, Dragonstrike, a question: What was the rule for learnable moves, is the Level a move is learned equal to the amount of XP needed/spent? I do have all the moves Galarian Ziggy + evolutions can learn via level-up linked and additionally saved up as a document on Kee's charasheet, but it's been...a while, so apologies for plainly forgetting how level-up moves are handled/learned.

Yup, the amount of exp you need to learn a move permanently is equal to the level it's learned at unless I say otherwise. Since Kee is a G-Zigzagoon, you can follow the Gen 8 level up movepool as is. There aren't any alterations I could possibly make to it without adding homebrew content since it's the only one that exists so far.

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

Oh right, Dragonstrike, a question: What was the rule for learnable moves, is the Level a move is learned equal to the amount of XP needed/spent? I do have all the moves Galarian Ziggy + evolutions can learn via level-up linked and additionally saved up as a document on Kee's charasheet, but it's been...a while, so apologies for plainly forgetting how level-up moves are handled/learned.

Yup, the amount of exp you need to learn a move permanently is equal to the level it's learned at unless I say otherwise.  Since Kee is a G-Zigzagoon, you can follow the Gen 8 level up movepool as is.  There aren't any alterations I could possibly make to it without adding homebrew content since it's the only one that exists so far.

Cool, many thanks. Rechecked with bulbapedia and the list I've got saved/linked in my charashett is indeed identical with it.