[Meta Thread] Pokerole Mystery Dungeon: Primal Shadows

[Lord Windos]

*Rubs eyes* .....Welp, Platina is not going to be happy dealing with a giga snek. Since, you know, they can eat birds, and its' primary typing is a direct counter to her own. Really having a bunch of fun expanding on previous mechanics and boss fights between all the campaign, eh Dragonstrike? He he....well, Im glad about that - shows we haven't lost our spark just yet!

In regards to what to do, we pretty much have to fight it. Or Platina has to, rather. Because, as everyone is aware of, she's extremely Shiny and easily captivates event the slightest bit of attention. Unless I want to dump all my XP to boosting her Stealth Roll out the wazoo she has very poor odds of escaping Giga Snek's notice, and even if she can do the sneaky sneaky she'd patently refuse to do so. This little princess is through being afraid and cowed by big threats - she'll rise up to the heights she believe that her partners WILL reach, and no longer falter against terrible odds, horrible fates, and immense Legends.

IC, I too want to fight the serpent of abnormally large proportions - wasting XP is pretty much terrible unless their is sufficiently strong incentive to run (which I don't think will be the case), and skipping a Boss Fight is just wasting the effort Dragonstrike put into it (unless they WANT to skip it, but I doubt that's the case here for obvious reasons). I don't know much about Dynamax Mechanics since I've been boycotting the games since Sw&Sh (and Nintendo entirely, for that matter), but what I'm familiar with about them reminds me of how Iron did PD Encounters - we got to find specific Weaknesses of it and it's Species/Lore in order to actually have a fighting chance against it and/or find a Specific Counter PD to break its BS. For the former we got a smattering of SE Damage and the clever experience of a Elite Team on our side, and for the later we got Hoopa to perhaps pull a deus ex machina out its bum if we truly need it. Worse case scenario we get smashed, but I'm okay with that - I've grown enough to be okay with the possibility of disasters loses so long as they're interesting and fun.

*Thinking...* ....Kogeki himself also has a chance to shine, now that I think about it. See, the PC Ninja has a trait that could come in very handy, if insanely risky - his ability to absorb Energy from Pokemon. Get him close enough to the Giga Snek, and perhaps he can siphon off a bit of it to weaken the boss and possibly pull of his own Dynamax shenanigans....or potentially get overwhelmed by that power and go absolutely berserk or worse. If nothing else its a interesting idea to explore, don't you think guys?

[Spiritmon]

Spoiler

*Rubs eyes* .....Welp, Platina is not going to be happy dealing with a giga snek. Since, you know, they can eat birds, and its' primary typing is a direct counter to her own. Really having a bunch of fun expanding on previous mechanics and boss fights between all the campaign, eh Dragonstrike? He he....well, Im glad about that - shows we haven't lost our spark just yet!

In regards to what to do, we pretty much have to fight it. Or Platina has to, rather. Because, as everyone is aware of, she's extremely Shiny and easily captivates event the slightest bit of attention. Unless I want to dump all my XP to boosting her Stealth Roll out the wazoo she has very poor odds of escaping Giga Snek's notice, and even if she can do the sneaky sneaky she'd patently refuse to do so. This little princess is through being afraid and cowed by big threats - she'll rise up to the heights she believe that her partners WILL reach, and no longer falter against terrible odds, horrible fates, and immense Legends.

IC, I too want to fight the serpent of abnormally large proportions - wasting XP is pretty much terrible unless their is sufficiently strong incentive to run (which I don't think will be the case), and skipping a Boss Fight is just wasting the effort Dragonstrike put into it (unless they WANT to skip it, but I doubt that's the case here for obvious reasons). I don't know much about Dynamax Mechanics since I've been boycotting the games since Sw&Sh (and Nintendo entirely, for that matter), but what I'm familiar with about them reminds me of how Iron did PD Encounters - we got to find specific Weaknesses of it and it's Species/Lore in order to actually have a fighting chance against it and/or find a Specific Counter PD to break its BS. For the former we got a smattering of SE Damage and the clever experience of a Elite Team on our side, and for the later we got Hoopa to perhaps pull a deus ex machina out its bum if we truly need it. Worse case scenario we get smashed, but I'm okay with that - I've grown enough to be okay with the possibility of disasters loses so long as they're interesting and fun.

*Thinking...* ....Kogeki himself also has a chance to shine, now that I think about it. See, the PC Ninja has a trait that could come in very handy, if insanely risky - his ability to absorb Energy from Pokemon. Get him close enough to the Giga Snek, and perhaps he can siphon off a bit of it to weaken the boss and possibly pull of his own Dynamax shenanigans....or potentially get overwhelmed by that power and go absolutely berserk or worse. If nothing else its a interesting idea to explore, don't you think guys?

Well, if I not mistaken Sandaconda is a pure Ground type, so Grass, Water and Ice should deal the problem with no big deal. But I also curious: Is Platina not a Flying type too since she is a bird? If I recall Flying is immune to Ground, but I have the feeling this is not the case here.

If I not mistaken, Dynamax/Gigantamax just make the Pokemon bigger, get a boost in their stats, get bigger pool of health and his moves become new version of powerfull moves. Sandblast is his G-move, who can trap foes AND cause constante damage. Dont know how much damage it can cause in Pokerole system however.

Well...IT can work, but there is a problem. That dark Clouds make me get the feeling we are dealing with a Shadow Pokemon. Last time I touch a Shadow Pokemon I get one point in Primal. Fortunanely since it was the first point in Primal, my Instinct didnt make me loose Logic. I do have 3 in Logic, so even if my stats decrease I could save 1 Logic...But I fear the battle against Landorus the possibility in fall once more via battle and get another point in primal, and become a feral Pokemon forever.

I could try to either try to absorb a bit of the Gigantamax energy and see if I dont get Primal or increase my Primal attribute. Or I could throw at him something to make the advantage to our side. I dont know. Some damage Orb, trap item, anything to weak such powerfull enemy. I not so confindent.

@Dragonstrike, it is possible to identify if it is a regular Gigantamax Sandaconda, or if is a Shadow Version? And it is, mechanic possible to Kogeki try to use his Aura Drain abilities on Sandaconda? Or it is impossible?

[Dragonstrike]

There won't be a Stealth roll involved in sneaking past Sandaconda if that's the route you decide to take.  A small army of pokemon coming to fight you is rather distracting.  This is a tough enemy, and if you want to save your energy and items for Landorus, you have the option to do so.


Spirit is also correct.  This Sandaconda is indeed a Shadow Pokemon, as indicated by the dark clouds circling above it (reminiscent of the storm clouds raging in the skies above the island).

And for Windos's benefit and team strategizing, Dynamax is both a simple and complex mechanic.  There's a number of aspects that it affects:

Spoiler

- the pokemon becomes a gigantic HP sponge due to its increased size

- the pokemon's attacks become stronger and inflict buffs/debuffs that affect entire sides of the battlefield (single target moves with spread target effects, like debuffing everyone's attack or buffing the attack of the user and all of their allies) or change the terrain/weather.  The effect, type, power, and whether the max move is physical or special all depend on the original traits of the move being used as a base for the attack.

- the pokemon becomes immune to Flinching, weight based attacks (dmax mons all have ??? weight according to the pokedex), Ability swapping (can still be nullified though), move disabling, and cannot be forced to switch unless it's by one of their own effects.  They also cannot be forced into using a single move via effects like Choice items and Encore.  Some of these effects may be subject to change in this system, but many of them exist to make it harder to cripple what's normally a temporary transformation and bolster the raid bosses in SwSh.

- Gigantamax pokemon also have unique signature max moves that replace one of the generic ones.  Sandaconda's is G-Max Sandblast, which inflicts a Sand Tomb effect on the opposing team.

- Max moves are also unable to miss due to their extreme size.

- Dynamaxing is typically only possible in areas where there is a Power Spot (what a Power Spot is exactly isn't particularly important at the moment.  Just know that there's enough energy in this area to fuel this gigantic transformation).

- Status moves become Max Guard regardless of their original effects.  It is a buffed version of Protect which fully protects against opposing Max Moves (they pierce through regular Protect and do reduced damage without being fully nullified).

- Higher difficulty wild Dmax pokemon in SwSh also get extra attacks, defensive barriers that reduce the damage they take and make them immune to status moves (similar to what you saw with Tornadus and Thundurus, but anyone can contribute to breaking these shields), and a special non-damaging move that wipes all stat changes on the opposing team, nullifies all abilities on the opposing team for 1 turn, and removes all debuffs on the Dmaxed pokemon.

TLDR; this is going to be a difficult encounter if you choose to fight the Shadow Gigantamax Sandaconda.  Dynamax is designed to be a raid boss mechanic that controls the battlefield, and defeating them requires solid teamwork.  Bonus exp for beating it if you do want to fight it, but it might put some strain on your resources for the Landorus battle (which is why I'm making this fight optional and easily avoidable for the players).

Edit: No need to worry about skipping over this fight due to me wanting to showcase something cool by the way. I'm not trying to showcase a cool boss idea right now (Landorus is your primary boss encounter here, not a random Sandaconda, lol). Rather, I'm trying to put the spotlight on Team Raiders, which I can do regardless of whether you decide to join this battle or skip it.


As for Kogeki's aura draining abilities, he's welcome to attempt it.  There's a lot of energy there, and it will have an effect if Kogeki can handle absorbing it.  What kind of an effect?  That'll be something you have to find out.

[Mikaruge108]

A question, Dragon, are you using 1.25's evolution methods?
Module 1.25's evolution method for Ralts to Kirlia is a powerful and happy moment. Rather vague imo, and something that could possibly be met with the optional battle (another reason for me to avoid it, since it probably would not be a good idea to have Karen evolve this early in the game)
Speaking of that, are we able to cancel the evolution of our characters should it start to happen at an inopportune time?

[Dragonstrike]

A question, Dragon, are you using 1.25's evolution methods?
Module 1.25's evolution method for Ralts to Kirlia is a powerful and happy moment. Rather vague imo, and something that could possibly be met with the optional battle (another reason for me to avoid it, since it probably would not be a good idea to have Karen evolve this early in the game)
Speaking of that, are we able to cancel the evolution of our characters should it start to happen at an inopportune time?

I am not.  Evolution is a very plot relevant event in PMD when it's used as a part of the story (Gates is the only PMD to not mention it in any capacity in the official games so far), and I have specific plans for it.

When you are given the option to evolve, you will be able to choose to not evolve if so desired.  Pokerole is the kind of game where player choice is important, after all!

[Mikaruge108]

Pros:
-Bonus experience that would be useful for fighting Landorus
-Powerful Ally if someone is able to sucessfully recruit G-Max Sandaconda

Cons:
-Challenging battle
-Most likely using up restoration items that would be better off saved for the fight with Landorus.

IC thoughts: as soon as Karen has the assurance (not the move) that the NPC group is prepped enough to handle the giant snek, she would be willing to go on to find Gallade. Her main reasoning would be the latter of the two cons I gave. I'll wait on other OOC decisions and possibly IC input in the game thread before Karen says something to this effect

[PhantomUnderYourDesk]

I am...SO late here, mostly since I got busy with household-and-work-stuff and caught sort of a cold on top of that (air conditioning is both a curse and a blessing, change my mind), but oh boi, a big Snek ahead! Frankly a G-Maxed Mon is the least I'd expect to encounter, so I'm pleasantly suprised! Even if the decision of fighting or not fighting is almost made already - Kee in-chara would go for a fight, but I would kinda...prefer to move onwards and press on towards Landorus. Fighting them and saving freeing them from shadow-y energy is more important with the Beeg Snek being optimal at best, and somehowI cannot shake off the feeling that there is or will be a reason to why we (player characters) can opt out of that battle and move onwards while the NPCs handle it.

On the other hand, we have alot of resource in Items and various strong NPC-help, meaning I'm mildly positive that we CAN handle the fight in one way or the other. Plus, a massive boost in XP if we win.

So blatantly if everyone is up to battle Sandaconda and opts to go for it, I'll okay with that. Personally, I would rather not though if we can opt out without a risk of having to battle anyway.

---

Not wanting to be a douche, but is there any date in when we gonna continue the adventure? I still in the hype for our battle against Landorus whatever you want mate.

Currently waiting on @no one to post so I can ensure everyone is happy with the preparations they've made.  I've reminded him on discord to check in here, so hopefully we won't be waiting too long for that confirmation.

EDIT: Oh, you changed your profile picture to Riolu Kogeki!  Wasn't expecting to see that!

Understood! Lets wait then.

Also thanks. Its been years I had that profile, so I decided it was a nice time to change the picture. So I want to give a thanks to @Phantomor the amazing art. I dont remember if I said that before, so I saying right now.

I'm both feeling flattered and seen (yay, thank you Spirit!~) and am cringing at myself at how much this old traditional drawing pales in comparison to what I am capable of drawing now. Probably should start redoing the icons once I'm done with the new boss ones

I like the older icons tbh.

Same, and gklffjthank youuu glad you like them! (>v< ) 'Redo' as in 'I would just trace them digitally', am not planning to completely scrap them.

[Lord Windos]

I am...SO late here, mostly since I got busy with household-and-work-stuff and caught sort of a cold on top of that (air conditioning is both a curse and a blessing, change my mind), but oh boi, a big Snek ahead! Frankly a G-Maxed Mon is the least I'd expect to encounter, so I'm pleasantly suprised! Even if the decision of fighting or not fighting is almost made already - Kee in-chara would go for a fight, but I would kinda...prefer to move onwards and press on towards Landorus. Fighting them and saving freeing them from shadow-y energy is more important with the Beeg Snek being optimal at best, and somehowI cannot shake off the feeling that there is or will be a reason to why we (player characters) can opt out of that battle and move onwards while the NPCs handle it.

On the other hand, we have alot of resource in Items and various strong NPC-help, meaning I'm mildly positive that we CAN handle the fight in one way or the other. Plus, a massive boost in XP if we win.

So blatantly if everyone is up to battle Sandaconda and opts to go for it, I'll okay with that. Personally, I would rather not though if we can opt out without a risk of having to battle anyway.

---

One big reason to do the Big Snek fight aside from getting the XP and whatever else it offers is that if we sneak off we don't get Team Raiders to tackle the Lando fight with off the bat. Considering how that sand dinji has been hyped up as a super threat grossly eclipsing all the other elemental genies we might actually end up using more resources holding out against it/learning it's various mechanics until Roserade and Rhyperior come to the resuce (if they come at all). Sure, we could also end up defeating it and he might end up relatively easier on us than trying to do back-to-back Boss Fights, but I just want to point out that their is some significant downsides to leaving Raiders behind to deal with the snek.

On that note, dealing with the snek will likely cause Raiders to lose more resources for themselves and increase the odds of them getting screwed without backup, which means they'd have less goodies to help us deal with Lando later (again, if they come in time). They already said that they were running low on Revivers and other stuff at the very start of the dungeon while taking the Mass Monster Houses, so I'm almost certain they're going to be strung out Item-wise if we leave them alone. Of course some of their Items might end up being used on our weak butts if we do spectacularly poorly against Big Snek, but in that case we at least get some XP and IC Experienced dealing with Dynamax + Raid Boss mechanics to go along with that (when the alt is making the Lando fight harder with only a resource uptik for the PC parties and Team Raiders having to eat more difficulty solo against the Snek). Plus sticking out and helping Raiders will certainly earn a bit more favor with them down the line - or at least I hope so!

The largest elephant in the room is the abscense of Gallade, and their is even odds of them being embroiled in a battle somewhere , being KOed/imprisoned, or them getting hit with the Shadow stick like with every almost every major encounter the teams dealt with. Rushing off without Raiders could net us Gallade for the fight potentially, but it's just as likely to result in nothing given the mystery surrounding his disappearance. 

Really, the Decision to Avoid the Big Snek/Fight the Big Snek comes down to the following conditions:
- Avoid Big Snek: Save more Items and not having an OP Team micromanage us until Lando, but lose out on XP , there immediate assistance against Lando (at the very least), making the Lando fight potentially more intense, and putting more strain on our allies. There is also the rep we lose out on by taking the Sneak Option, though Roserade might be pleased with it considering it was their idea to begin with.
- Fight Big Snek: More XP and Interactions, experience gained from fighting a whole new kind of Boss (Raid + Dynamax), and keeping the entire group together thorough the MD (remember when Ven split from the party from under Mt. Sentry? Ah, good times....) , but almost certainly putting more Item scarcity on our PC Teams and taking on a considering challenge that very much could leave the PC Teams completely unprepared to be anything but supports for Team Raiders against Lando. The rep we could gain by being brave is there too!

Whichever we decide, we got to prioritize what we deem the most important to us first. For me, it's the potential XP and the reassurance of having Team Raiders with us at all times thoroughout this MD. What do you think, mates? Phantom dear?

[Mikaruge108]

What do you think, mates?

Thing is, we don't know if Team Raiders restocked their Revivers at the halfway point (I am assuming that when they said that they were low on Reviver Seeds, they meant on hand) Even if this is the case, your point of them having to use up said potential restock on us would be something to take into consideration.
 
All that said, I agree that the extra experience from Sandaconda would be helpful for fighting Landorus.

[Spiritmon]

Me too! I agree with the plan in fight Sandaconda. And if we go with the plan in let Kogeki stealth approach and use his Aura Drain abilities, I could might change the Tite of battle to our favor. I still scare about the possibility in increase my Primal level, and the possibility in loose my character. And 50 XP to decrease Primal...Yieks! However, a warrior must do, what a warrior must do. And in character, I think Kogeki would indeed suggest such dangerous and almost suicide mission upon himself. He risk his own life as a human, so he would gladly risk his life for his team victory. Even if that resulted in him getting closer to become Primal.

No victory come without a cost. So it is better to risk only one life to protect everyone. Besides, no member in the group have the Aura Drain ability. So Kogeki is the perfect candidate for this stealth mission.