So Much Luck IM SO HAPPY!

[babz16]

Monkey there is one pokemon that is not special that you can't their HA. Corsola

Er, @babz16, I bred HA Corsola and released like a box of them into WT2... And I still have some HA Corsola left so I can breed them again if I choose, so your information is incorrect...

The wiki says it's HA is not obtainable

[MonkeyLord83]

The wiki says it's HA is not obtainable

Well, tell whoever to have said that to look at this:

because it is VERY Obtainable from where I'm standing...
And where did you even READ THAT? I checked the wiki and it doesn't say that... -_-

[Lord Windos]

There should ALWAYS be a discussion about things of this nature, because how can we decide something is good or not if we don't take the time to look over the issue?

Can we agree to disagree on this? I believe that we are not convincing each other the merits of our arguments, so why don't we end this discussion now, rather than drag it out?

Thing is, NOTHING is completely good or completely bad, everything is both. So while I do see that discussion is needed, I also see that discussion in most case will accomplish NOTHING in the long term as people will always see what they want to see. Some will always see something as good/acceptable, and some other out there will always see that same thing as unacceptable, no matter how much discussion put into it. I see your point and I get it, but I'm looking at the bigger picture when I say that's just NOT how arguments and society work... No argument in history ever truly been won, one side either all died or got tired of arguing, but they never stop believing their point of view, and they never really got convinced. Maybe people can understand the other point of view and grudgingly reach a compromise, OR it can end badly in flame, wars, and bloodshed, but we human never really "win" or "lose" an argument, not when both side have valid points and supporting 2 different ideals.

As for what you said regarding justifying exploitation. If we justify HA chain breeding bug, how long will it takes people to use that to push forward duping Pokemon/item, cloning save on the principle that it's not much different, as they are all exploitation? Would it really be fair to say one exploit is okay and the other not just because YOU feel that way? Who gets to be the judge, and what gives them the rights? I believe the community already agreed upon the current devs, so what's the point of dragging out an arguments for whether the bugs should be acceptable or not if our devs get the final saying anyway? And so what if they do or don't give any reason why they do something? Would it really change anything? Like when Andro removed the shiny star, it was collateral damages and it was clear from the start, but people still rage for days because of that, some even purposely stay downgraded for that star. The devs will always do what they believe is right, and sometimes that means the tough choices that won't please everyone in the community, or even displease the majority of the community. But we still have to respect that because we trust and believe in them enough... unless you wanna look for new devs...

I assume that once discussion has been reached, and everything is mulled over and analyzed, a final decision can be implement for that case and all future case that bear similarity to it (to a degree, of course.) I do agree with you counterpoint, though. I realize I am far more tolerant and accepting of outside viewpoints than the norm, so my perspective on open discourse is warped subsequently.


As for the bug argument, I accept the devs are in charge, but I don't agree with all their actions, and in fact is quite the conscientious objector to some of their decisions. Dramsama, removing the red star, not releasing all the HA's immedianlty... these are all choices made by them I still actively protest. I don't make a fuss about it unless its dragged out of me, or someone brings it up, but I still feel that the devs made some blunders in their decision making process. While I'll respect and always be kind/caring towards them, as long as they treat me the same in term, I'm not going to unilaterally accept everything they do as perfectly justifiable or ok. This is why I believe devs need to announce why they are making controversial choices in greater depth, as giving no explanation is worse than some logic backing it up.

You also seem afraid that by allowing just a few good bugs, it would open the door wide open for other, less excusable bugs. Leaving aside as to what constitutes a 'good' bug, I believe its silly to think that the devs would have some review policy in place to prevent rampant abuse of community goodwill. As long as they are transparent about their choices, I'm fine with their oversight concerning bugs.

The devs may do what they think is best, but that does not mean it absolutely is, or always will be. Don't get me wrong, I love the devs I have right now, since they work so hard for a game that, by all rights, should have been canned long ago by the Big N. I just won't give them unconditional support for their action, if, after reviewing them myself, and forming my own opinion, disagree with it. There is a fine line between support a dev's action, to just agreeing with everything the do just because they are a dev.

[MonkeyLord83]

The shiny star thing was a collateral damage, it's simply an issue in coding that causes several other problems and when the coding was fixed to fix the other problem, the star went away as well. Basically, asking for it back is asking for 3-4 other bad bugs back as well because there's simply no way to have one without the other. Dramsama was a balance issue. And to be fair, your argument with the HA bug thing is getting stupid.

For one, MANY HA wasn't released when the radar was first fixed due to map coding issue since JV's era. In addition, the fact that we have any HA at all is a blessing in itself, and A LOT OF the HA we even have right now SHOULDN'T even BE available (I'm referring to the exclusive encounters). There was a plan to release HA slowly and gradually into the game, and the fact we have all that we have already is plenty from my point of view. The HA bug was a thing never was to happen in the first place, the only reason why it existed was because coding issue, and its removal is merely correctly a wrong. Think from this point of view, had that bug never existed in the first place, would you be as vexed as you are now? That was supposed to be the reality. The bug should be treated as a dream, and not just because it was removed TWICE (ONCE by JV and Twitch when the game went from beta into released, and the second time around when Andro corrected his mistake).

Put yourself in their shoes, say you have carefully made this plan, and something you didn't plan for just pop that could POSSIBLY ruin the intended plan you just made, and possibly ruin the intended experience for everyone, but removing that may get on people nerve. The cost was making a part of the community mad, the benefit was ensuring the experience for the remaining of the community, and you have a pretty clear idea that the dividing line between the 2 is nearer to one side. I mean, all the people who actually minded and were actively against the removal of the bug were what, a handful(?), compare to everyone else who's okay either way or supportive of that removal. That's basically what happened.

While YOU already said you wouldn't mind all the application of the bug, you have to admit that bug would ruin the whole idea of Pokeradar. The radar is meant to be hard, it's meant to be the ONLY gateway to HA. And that bug would have made the radar nearly useless, and while YOU may not have any problem with that as a player, OTHER people, devs and players alike may. Just as releasing Punks to WT can possibly ruin the experience of catching them for other people, being able to chain breed HA would have the same long term effect of ruining the game experience. If you can chain breed HA, what's the point of the radar or what's the point of trading with other people? Just as duping Pokemon and flooding the market with a single Pokemon or item can ruin the experience for other players, so can this bug. And just as having a 6IVs Duplicat would break breeding, this bug CAN break the point of HA and Pokeradar. It's like Batman said to Alfred in Batman V Superman "if we believe there’s even a one percent chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty", there's a good chance this bug could blow up on all of our faces big time if left as it was, so while some people would rather have it around, its removal is quite inevitable. Here, I'd like to take a step back and say, that I'm okay either way, but since you were hell bend on saying it's a good bug, I have to dig deep and point out EVERYTHING WRONG with that bug (it's just what I do, if people list all the good side of something, I'll point out everything bad about it, if someone say something is horrible, I'll point out all the good sides, and if someone talks abt both the good and the bad, I'll just add onto the growing list), which by the way, was not a happy experience, I actually was on okay term with it, now, I absolutely loathe it and am GLAD it's removed.

Just because something wrong makes people happy doesn't make it right. There are gray area, and then there are black and white area. Emotionally and biased-ly speaking, would I like a chance to be able to chain breed HA? Yes. But logically and unbiased-ly speaking, do I see that as wrong/immoral/illegal? Yes. It's wrong on so many level and whether or not it makes people or myself happy is irrelevant. And when it comes to decision making, I'll take logic side 99% of the time, and I'd rather the devs do the same than dealing with wishy-washy devs who changes their mind and make decision base on trying to please people or their personal emotions and feelings.

[Lord Windos]

We have different view on what is morally constutitible as a bad thing, but I agree with what your are trying to bash into my skull. I don't think its bad, but I'm in the minority, and I have to admit, the needs/desires of the many outweigh the few. I find that batman quote to be a tad bit too extreme for my tastes, but that is besides the argument, and I am just being nitpicking about it. I'm disappointed in myself for pushing you away from the bugs because of my insistence to argue, but that is my fault for not letting this argument die when I could.

I don't believe those bugs are bad; disruptive perhaps, but not bad. I'd consider a bad bug of the 'delete, corrupt, or ruin my save/computer' , as that has definitely can cause a whole lot of harm. I believe everything is grey, just and whether or not its a light or dark shade depends on the situation, and the person judging it. But that is just my views, so don't let it bother you. I believe logical, pros-cons choices making to be a good thing, but I believe that emotion/heart based choice making is still very valid, especially when you consider all the people you are going to affect with your actions...and yourself. Being totally stoic in decision making is fine, but the drawback is that you lose touch with the community.

I appreciate that arguments none of the less, regardless on my personal stance on the matters. I still have to live by the dev's decesions at the end of the day, unless I just plain want to abandon the community in frustration. I believe our devs are good, but they have the potential to be even greater. I am critical of their actions because, in part, I genuinely care about what they do, and want them to be even greater.

[babz16]

The wiki says it's HA is not obtainable

Well, tell whoever to have said that to look at this:

because it is VERY Obtainable from where I'm standing...
And where did you even READ THAT? I checked the wiki and it doesn't say that... -_-

go down to where it says Pokémon with inaccessible Hidden Abilities. Unless the wiki needs to be undated again. http://pokemon-uranium.wikia.com/wiki/Hidden_Ability

[MonkeyLord83]

The wiki says it's HA is not obtainable

Well, tell whoever to have said that to look at this:

because it is VERY Obtainable from where I'm standing...
And where did you even READ THAT? I checked the wiki and it doesn't say that... -_-

go down to where it says Pokémon with inaccessible Hidden Abilities. Unless the wiki needs to be undated again. http://pokemon-uranium.wikia.com/wiki/Hidden_Ability

One, the wiki ALWAYS needs updating, as it is fan-made and fan-updated... Two, it's not even there anymore, someone's already updated it...

[Nekra]

You made a huge impression to me, Lord Windos, how you are brave and battle for good bugs. (I though good things, although unintentional, are called features, not bugs.)

About the fairness, I think it depends what the feature is. Some features (p.e. shiny star in older version) are fair in a way everybody is able use it, without damaging anybody (If you disagree, explain me, what is the advantage from breeding a shiny longer time.). Some work in a different way due to their zero sum (p.e. change of an attack) - some people get benefit from it, some got a disadvantage/harm.

About good for all feature, I don't see a reason take it away. Zero sum features are worse, they usually punished people who found good combination(s) earlier, maybe they don't have a right solution.

[Xenoic]

Maybe i should change the title of this to "Ft. Bug Debate" lols